Ben Simmons: Lack of Competitiveness

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Ben Simmons: Lack of Competitiveness 

Post#1 » by DeathLineup » Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:20 pm

For several reasons, Simmons’ candidacy as the No. 1 overall prospect is in peril.

1. Simmons’ lack of competitiveness in some crucial games has raised questions about his character as a basketball player. While many top picks succumb to the NBA star lifestyle and emerge as average competitors, it’s rare to see that at the collegiate level. From Blake Griffin to Michael Beasley to Carmelo Anthony, those elite college players were rarely questioned about their drive during their collegiate careers. Simmons has displayed an apathy for defense, contact and delivering winning plays in crucial moments. Those troubling revelations in Simmons’ game are cause for concern among decision-makers on lottery teams with whom we’ve had contact.

Source: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-ben-simmons-isn-t-the-top-prospect-in-the-2016-nba-draft-190023711.html

Is there any previous highly sought-after prospect that had his value dropped so much because people questioned his competitiveness? Did those guys that were perceived to have low competitiveness level indeed failed in the NBA? It's hard to believe how far Simmons' reputation has fallen. Haven't heard about the LeBron comparison lately. He was a surefire #1 pick.
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Re: Ben Simmons: Lack of Competitiveness 

Post#2 » by laploutocratie » Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:34 pm

:roll:

To me, this "lack of competitiveness" is such a cop out when describing basketball players. Same was said about Wiggins too.

The guys writing these, many of whom have never played a minute of competitive basketball in their lives, are going to say that a guy that has gotten this good up to the collegiate level didn't have the drive to compete? Please.
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Re: Ben Simmons: Lack of Competitiveness 

Post#3 » by Phreak50 » Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:46 pm

It's pretty clear these articles and leaks from friends and national teammates are all ploys.

Some from agents and camps of the other potential top picks, some from NBA camps who are hoping he drops down the list on draft night.
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Re: Ben Simmons: Lack of Competitiveness 

Post#4 » by CrookedJ » Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:02 pm

If there is no legit debate about the number one pick, people start trying to tear down the #1 guy around this time.

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Re: Ben Simmons: Lack of Competitiveness 

Post#5 » by gothehornets » Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:12 pm

i would understand if he played like a scrub this whole time but he put up some pretty awesome 'empty' stats
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Re: Ben Simmons: Lack of Competitiveness 

Post#6 » by ItsThatEasy » Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:30 pm

Simmons has easily been the most self aware #1 prospect of the One and Done era.

In my estimate he's shown through interviews and his choice to stop going to classes that he fully understands college basketball is a sham and that he owes nothing to the NCAA. He could've played oversea's sure, but he's aware that probably would've hindered his stock a bit.

I'm not sure how to feel about it but the kid know's he has a future in the NBA and was not willing to go along with the farce that is college basketball. That's really what I've gathered from this "lack of effort". Some may find it selfish, some may not. I'm still on the fence.
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Re: Ben Simmons: Lack of Competitiveness 

Post#7 » by RTran85 » Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:40 pm

I watched his last two games, one vs Tennessee and other vs Texas A&M and I don't see what's so special about this kid. He looks like the next Shabazz Muhammed.
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Re: Ben Simmons: Lack of Competitiveness 

Post#8 » by moocow007 » Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:48 pm

Wiggins also was criticized for some of the same "lack of competitiveness". He's turned out pretty good I'd say. Also the guy that a lot of folks have compared Simmons to, Lamar Odom, also had folks questioning the same sort of things (even as far back as his HS days in Queens NY). Odom also turned out pretty good no? So Simmons may not be the next Lebron or Kobe because he doesn't have that Alpha Dog personality but that doesn't mean that he isn't still likely the best player and best bet in this draft. Perspective I think is what may be getting lost a lot with these types of articles (either from the standpoint of the author writing it, or the standpoint of folks reading/reacting to it). Not every draft yields a Lebron or Kobe or similar type player...and that's ok. It doesn't mean the draft or the guy is a failure or not worth taking 1st overall.
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Re: Ben Simmons: Lack of Competitiveness 

Post#9 » by ItsThatEasy » Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:50 pm

RTran85 wrote:I watched his last two games, one vs Tennessee and other vs Texas A&M and I don't see what's so special about this kid. He looks like the next Shabazz Muhammed.


Not sure if this is a joke or not
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Re: Ben Simmons: Lack of Competitiveness 

Post#10 » by lambchop » Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:55 pm

The kid could also just be bored.
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Re: Ben Simmons: Lack of Competitiveness 

Post#11 » by WarriorsEFC » Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:13 pm

As soon as I read the part in the article about Simmons Australian teammates I knew it was a sham article. I know 1 person involved in the Australian coaching setup.... and just about everything about that was an outright lie. The only thing that was right was that they called him "The Yank".... but the writer of this article has twisted it to make it sound like a derogatory statement which it is not. The nickname is because when he came to the Australian training camp last year he had a weird mixture of American and Australian accent.

As for the rest of it.... Simmons does have an outward laidback nature that most Australians do... and this has been misinterpreted as laziness and a "lack of competitiveness"which couldn't be further from the truth. If he looks sometimes like he is not engaged on the court it is because LSU and their coach Johnny Jones completely misused him.

Everyone knew coming out of highschool his best position was point forward with the ball in his hands. A 6ft 10 guy with dribbling skills and athleticism that can layup with either hand. Why would you not play him at the 1 spot? Because they had a more senior point guard called Tim Quarterman who basically could only play the 1 and nothing else. Quarterman can't shoot... can't pass... in fact he can't do much.

Simmons actually admitted only a few weeks ago that he would prefer to have played the 1 but sacrificed for Coach Jones and the sake of the team and played at the 4 and 5... because Quarterman wasn't a shooter and couldn't play anywhere outside of the 1. The truth is Quarterman should have been on the bench and not starting at all.

If you watched every LSU game as I did... the pattern was the same. They played Simmons in the post 90% of the time... and nobody on the team could make entry passes and when they did he would be double or triple teamed and have to kick it right out. He had players around him jacking up shots that couldn't shoot. He would spend pockets of 3-5 minutes of game time where the ball may never even pass through his hands in offensive sets because they couldn't get it to him!! The #1 player in the country.... and this is how Coach Jones misused him.

The only time Simmons ever got the ball and dribbled with it against opposition was when he got his own rebound and didn't give the ball up.... and probably had am 80% success rate of scoring or drawing the foul in those occassions. Apart from that he never got the ball in half court offense at the 1 spot.... unless they needed him to shave 25 seconds off the clock.

There was also a period there in the season where LSU were going down by 10 point margins with 4 mins to go in games... and then and only then would Simmons get the ball up the court and take it to the rim and got to be aggressive. There are games where he scored 10 or 15 of the last points in games trying to will his team back out of a hole that guys like Quarterman had put them into.... and just come up short.

I don't blame Simmons for that. Who gets to take the ball up the court... is the coaches call. Right up until the last minute of the last game of the season... Jones continued to misuse Simmons.... and it was all about keeping other senior players onside that he wanted to come back next year to LSU. He knew Simmons was one and done but to keep his job he needed others to be happy.

So LSU never got the best out of Simmons. Simmons never got to play in the position he was most suited to. And now he is about to go to the NBA.. more than likely a top 2 pick. He will be a gun... in a system where others around him can shoot and play basketball. Nobody at LSU could do that... and he can't be held responsible for not getting them to the NCAA when the guy is literally frozen out on the court by the ineptness of his own coach and teammates.

The only person that managed to shut down Ben Simmons all year was his own coach.... Johnny Jones.
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Re: Ben Simmons: Lack of Competitiveness 

Post#12 » by Slava » Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:13 pm

Lack of competitiveness is a vague term to judge someone on but when a team with the #1 overall pick in the nation struggles to squeak out 38 points against SEC opposition while playing pedestrian basketball for most of the game, you have to raise some legitimate questions.
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Re: Ben Simmons: Lack of Competitiveness 

Post#13 » by laploutocratie » Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:19 pm

Slava wrote:Lack of competitiveness is a vague term to judge someone on but when a team with the #1 overall pick in the nation struggles to squeak out 38 points against SEC opposition while playing pedestrian basketball for most of the game, you have to raise some legitimate questions.


It was a poor game from Simmons, but an even poorer decision to go to LSU and surround himself with completely inept teammates. Against Texas A&M, the non-Simmons LSU players shot a combined 9-52 (~17% shooting). That's genuinely embarrassing.
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Re: Ben Simmons: Lack of Competitiveness 

Post#14 » by WarriorsEFC » Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:24 pm

Oh and one more thing. Team harmony at LSU was virtually non-existant. Some of the more senior players (not Keith Hornsby so you can work the rest out) were jealous of both Simmons and Antonio Blakeney.

Blakeney came in as one of the most hyped players into College... ranked 15 in the country and a pure scorer. It is no coincidence that he started the season on fire like Simmons... and then struggled during the middle stages. His teammates and the way they treated he and Simmons. Blakeney is gone... he won't be back at LSU and you can guarantee that.

They were pissed that "The Killer B's" as they were promoted by the College before they had even turned up on campus... were being given all the publicity even though they were freshmen. This is one of the reasons why Simmons was asked to play the 4 and 5... to accomodate a sulky Tim Quarterman.

On top of that... the other more senior players were jealous that Simmons for his entire time at LSU had a documentary film team following him around.... that had also been there at high school and will follow him into his first season into the NBA. I was told players again were jealous of this... which is quite hilarious given most of those other players will be lucky to end up playing 4th division in some Uzbekhistan league somewhere.

So yeah... I can completely understand if Simmons looked less than enthused towards the end. I was told he didn't even bother turning to a single class in the 2nd semester. By then I think he'd had enough of school and didn't see the point anymore in studying... given the dude is about to sign a $100 mill shoe contract. I am sure he always study Oceanography later on if he blows that $100 mill :lol:
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Re: Ben Simmons: Lack of Competitiveness 

Post#15 » by scrabbarista » Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:25 pm

I've watched somewhere between 15 and 20 full games of his. As far as talent, he's not only a number one pick, he's much better than the average number one pick. His personality is, however, a mystery to me. I've probably had half a dozen different theories.

Right now I'm of the opinion that he's got a bit too much of the wrong kind of pride. That is - as is perfectly natural in a 19 year-old kid with the eyes of the (basketball) world upon him - I think he's afraid of trying and failing. It manifests itself on the court in a similar way as it did for Lebron for the first half of his career: too much passing, too little shooting (It can't be pure coincidence that he idolizes Lebron, and Lebron has been mentoring him closely in off-the-court decisions.) I think, though, that whereas Lebron mostly wanted to be liked, Simmons has more of an acute performance anxiety. Both conditions affect(ed) both players, but the balance is difference for each. The good news, if this theory is true, is that Simmons actually cares too much. What he'll need to learn, I think, is that his fears are costing his teammates wins. He'll get more love and respect (from teammates and fans, etc) by putting his ego on the line when the game is on the line. He needs to force the action fearlessly.

I can't stand the Lakers and have never been a Kobe lover, but Simmons to LA feels as inevitable to me as Steph Curry in rhythm. If he does indeed go to the Lakers, I'll never be able to fully convince myself it wasn't rigged. I only bring it up because I really want to see Simmons succeed, and the best person for him to learn from, if my conjectures are correct, just might be Kobe Bryant.
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Re: Ben Simmons: Lack of Competitiveness 

Post#16 » by Dark Faze » Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:27 pm

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Re: Ben Simmons: Lack of Competitiveness 

Post#17 » by scrabbarista » Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:42 pm

WarriorsEFC wrote:Oh and one more thing. Team harmony at LSU was virtually non-existant. Some of the more senior players (not Keith Hornsby so you can work the rest out) were jealous of both Simmons and Antonio Blakeney.

Blakeney came in as one of the most hyped players into College... ranked 15 in the country and a pure scorer. It is no coincidence that he started the season on fire like Simmons... and then struggled during the middle stages. His teammates and the way they treated he and Simmons. Blakeney is gone... he won't be back at LSU and you can guarantee that.

They were pissed that "The Killer B's" as they were promoted by the College before they had even turned up on campus... were being given all the publicity even though they were freshmen. This is one of the reasons why Simmons was asked to play the 4 and 5... to accomodate a sulky Tim Quarterman.

On top of that... the other more senior players were jealous that Simmons for his entire time at LSU had a documentary film team following him around.... that had also been there at high school and will follow him into his first season into the NBA. I was told players again were jealous of this... which is quite hilarious given most of those other players will be lucky to end up playing 4th division in some Uzbekhistan league somewhere.

So yeah... I can completely understand if Simmons looked less than enthused towards the end. I was told he didn't even bother turning to a single class in the 2nd semester. By then I think he'd had enough of school and didn't see the point anymore in studying... given the dude is about to sign a $100 mill shoe contract. I am sure he always study Oceanography later on if he blows that $100 mill :lol:


If all of this is true, which seems not unlikely, and his teammates were actually hating, it might explain why he was so willing to play passively more and more as the season wore on. As someone who watched the whole season, I can tell you he was much more assertive during the last five minutes of games in the first half of the season than in the second half. (It usually resulted in close losses rather than wins, because with all of the injuries, the squad was playing at a severe talent deficit in most match-ups.) If he was indeed being passive to punish his teammates, that would actually be totally Kobe-like and not at all like Lebron. It would be a lot more "I don't give a ****" (in a good way) and a lot less "I give too much of a ****" as conjectured in my previous post.

Whatever the truth,what I really don't want to believe is 1) he just doesn't care that much about winning or 2) he's too stupid to know that having been more aggressive would have lead to more wins. It's gotta be something else, right? I certainly think so right now, but I guess time will tell.
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Re: Ben Simmons: Lack of Competitiveness 

Post#18 » by ReasonablySober » Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:44 pm

laploutocratie wrote::roll:

To me, this "lack of competitiveness" is such a cop out when describing basketball players. Same was said about Wiggins too.

The guys writing these, many of whom have never played a minute of competitive basketball in their lives, are going to say that a guy that has gotten this good up to the collegiate level didn't have the drive to compete? Please.


That's not the best comparison to drop here. Wiggins has looked like a waste of ability on many nights this season when he offers nothing but scoring.
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Re: Ben Simmons: Lack of Competitiveness 

Post#19 » by jmnvcavs » Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:00 pm

Wiggins is one of the most physically gifted players in the NBA and a lot of the time when you watch him play you can't see that. He has no idea how to take advantage of his body... there are flashes though. I think Simmons is fine the things that he can do at his size is pretty damn unique and will be a tough matchup for many in the NBA. On top of that this LSU team just wasn't that good without Simmons they are in the bottom part of the league.
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Re: Ben Simmons: Lack of Competitiveness 

Post#20 » by olive_triangurl » Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:02 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
laploutocratie wrote::roll:

To me, this "lack of competitiveness" is such a cop out when describing basketball players. Same was said about Wiggins too.

The guys writing these, many of whom have never played a minute of competitive basketball in their lives, are going to say that a guy that has gotten this good up to the collegiate level didn't have the drive to compete? Please.


That's not the best comparison to drop here. Wiggins has looked like a waste of ability on many nights this season when he offers nothing but scoring.


Wiggins isn't in a position to dominate the playmaking and rack up assists. Rubio is his teammate....

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