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miltk wrote:I'd be willing to bet by 1 - recruiting prowess, 2 - pre and seasonal ranking/wins, and 3 - tournament seed,,,Miller is BY FAR the most underachieving college coach in America.

He just lost to my Bruins, which I'm ecstatic about. But we lost 68% of our offense and 1 lottery player and 1st round player, and a freshman game changer. WE are led by a center who'll not get drafted and a junior guard who MIGHT be a second rounder,,,and neither was considered draft worthy last year. We lost three frosh in that China fiasco. So we are depleted not only in talent but bodies.

Arizona loves him. They love the fact that he keeps them on the map but little do they realize that their fan support and community is a HUGE factor in their recruiting, and any good coach would recruit well there.

azcatz11 wrote:

miltk wrote:I'd be willing to bet by 1 - recruiting prowess, 2 - pre and seasonal ranking/wins, and 3 - tournament seed,,,Miller is BY FAR the most underachieving college coach in America.

He just lost to my Bruins, which I'm ecstatic about. But we lost 68% of our offense and 1 lottery player and 1st round player, and a freshman game changer. WE are led by a center who'll not get drafted and a junior guard who MIGHT be a second rounder,,,and neither was considered draft worthy last year. We lost three frosh in that China fiasco. So we are depleted not only in talent but bodies.

Arizona loves him. They love the fact that he keeps them on the map but little do they realize that their fan support and community is a HUGE factor in their recruiting, and any good coach would recruit well there.

I understand your post but they will never fire Miller. And Arizona may be seen as a dream job now but it wasn’t even the case 10 years ago when Kevin O’Neal was hired and Miller almost took the NC St job.

Arizona is a great program, after the blue bloods, but is not on the level you are making it out to be

miltk wrote:

azcatz11 wrote:

miltk wrote:I'd be willing to bet by 1 - recruiting prowess, 2 - pre and seasonal ranking/wins, and 3 - tournament seed,,,Miller is BY FAR the most underachieving college coach in America.

He just lost to my Bruins, which I'm ecstatic about. But we lost 68% of our offense and 1 lottery player and 1st round player, and a freshman game changer. WE are led by a center who'll not get drafted and a junior guard who MIGHT be a second rounder,,,and neither was considered draft worthy last year. We lost three frosh in that China fiasco. So we are depleted not only in talent but bodies.

Arizona loves him. They love the fact that he keeps them on the map but little do they realize that their fan support and community is a HUGE factor in their recruiting, and any good coach would recruit well there.

I understand your post but they will never fire Miller. And Arizona may be seen as a dream job now but it wasn’t even the case 10 years ago when Kevin O’Neal was hired and Miller almost took the NC St job.

Arizona is a great program, after the blue bloods, but is not on the level you are making it out to be

o'neill was the worst sourpuss in college coaching, but he was one year. arizona was the dream job with lute , don't you think. he was to zona what calhoun was to uconn, so miller just picked it up from there. but this is less about the program and more about miller. since he's been with arizona he's been knocking heads with kentucky and dook, and has bumped unc in recruiting.

recruiting imo is the summation of all the factors that go into the making of an elite program, because 5*s go to top programs that win and have a great support base. i always thought the community was the biggest factor in recruiting to tucson. frankly the only thing NOT making them as elite as they should be is the very reason for my post.......MILLER.

i guess i should be grateful they don't have a really good coach, really.

bwgood77 wrote:

miltk wrote:

azcatz11 wrote:
I understand your post but they will never fire Miller. And Arizona may be seen as a dream job now but it wasn’t even the case 10 years ago when Kevin O’Neal was hired and Miller almost took the NC St job.

Arizona is a great program, after the blue bloods, but is not on the level you are making it out to be

o'neill was the worst sourpuss in college coaching, but he was one year. arizona was the dream job with lute , don't you think. he was to zona what calhoun was to uconn, so miller just picked it up from there. but this is less about the program and more about miller. since he's been with arizona he's been knocking heads with kentucky and dook, and has bumped unc in recruiting.

recruiting imo is the summation of all the factors that go into the making of an elite program, because 5*s go to top programs that win and have a great support base. i always thought the community was the biggest factor in recruiting to tucson. frankly the only thing NOT making them as elite as they should be is the very reason for my post.......MILLER.

i guess i should be grateful they don't have a really good coach, really.

He's gotten to three elite eights and two sweet sixteens (five if you count the elite eight years) and barely lost to Wisconsin in the elite eight two of the years, once in OT. They barely lost to national champ UConn the other year after knocking out #1 seed Duke as the 5 seed.

He's only gone down in the first round once, against Wichita St when AZ was the 6 seed and never gone down in the 2nd round.

Conversely, someone like Jay Wright who is deemed a great coach because of winning it all once, went down in the 2nd round three of the last four years as a 1 or 2 seed.

Miller has overall been a better more consistent tourney coach than Lute, though a couple of Lute teams had great runs, but people used to joke about how many times he lost in the first or second round as a huge favorite.

Not to say I don't love Lute. He was/is a great coach and person.

azcatz11 wrote:Yup. Miller was staying at AZ for life unless Duke or UNC came calling. AZ was never firing him prior to this scandal.

ESPN has made two corrections to its report that said Sean Miller allegedly discussed a $100,000 payment with former ASM employee Christian Dawkins for Deandre Ayton.

The first was changing the date of the alleged wiretapped phone call from “spring of 2017” to “spring of 2016.” The second was changing it to just “2016.”

That seemed to make more sense because Ayton committed to Arizona in September 2016, but, according to 247Sports, that timeline doesn’t actually make much sense at all.

Here is what Evan Daniels, Brian Snow, and Josh Gershon are reporting:

A source told 247Sports that Dawkins (who had his phone tapped by the FBI) and Miller had calls intercepted between the timeframe of June 19 of 2017, through Sept. 25.

Sources say that the U.S. Attorney’s office notified multiple parties who had conversations with Dawkins that their phone calls had been recorded specifically during the dates of June 19, 2017 and Sept. 25, 2017.

The 247Sports report also says Dawkins has never been a handler/mentor for Ayton. So, connecting the dots, it wouldn’t make sense why Miller and Dawkins were discussing a payment for the Bahamian big man.

Further twisting the plot is that Dawkins has never been associated — to anyone’s knowledge — with Ayton. Ayton has had mentors/handlers involved in his process at different stages of his basketball career, but Dawkins has never been one of them.

Dawkins was working as a “runner” for NBA agent Andy Miller’s ASM Sports Group, whose records were seized as part of the FBI investigation.

Murkiness of the timelines aside, it does not rule out that compromising information was possibly found on the wiretaps, though those familiar with the conversations are highly dubious that it involved a $100,000 tag for Ayton to specifically sign with Arizona. Ayton was already on campus by the time any June 19-Sept. 25 Dawkins-Miller conversation occurred.

On Monday, 247Sports reported that there were some serious holes in ESPN’s report, including the dates and content of the wiretaps.

Further questions regarding ESPN’s report are starting to pick up steam in the national media. On Tuesday morning on an interview with ESPN 680 out of Louisville, Yahoo! Sports’ Pat Forde said, “I think there is a lot of dispute about the ESPN report,” adding “There was nothing in the documents we reviewed that implicated Sean Miller.”

Miller did not coach in Arizona’s 98-93 overtime loss to Oregon on Saturday, releasing a statement before the game that “I am confident I will be vindicated.”

247Sports sources with knowledge of the content of the audio tapes – which remain under a federal seal – believe they would exonerate the coach of ESPN’s allegations.

While those tapes may not ever see the light of day, Miller and his lawyers have fought that the allegations against him are false. Now the ball is in the University of Arizona’s court.

miltk wrote:i'm pretty sure the arizona fans know this guy, greg hansen. he's tapped in and if anything is at least reflctive of the sentiment http://arizonasports.com/story/1443387/daily-star-greg-hansen-sean-miller-deandre-ayton-brian-bowen/

bwgood77 wrote:

miltk wrote:i'm pretty sure the arizona fans know this guy, greg hansen. he's tapped in and if anything is at least reflctive of the sentiment http://arizonasports.com/story/1443387/daily-star-greg-hansen-sean-miller-deandre-ayton-brian-bowen/

That guy has been after Miller for a long time. He has made statements regarding thinking it was Bowen, then said it was just wild speculation on his part, etc. He's not really tapped in because Miller never gave him the access that Lute did.

I expect something to come down regarding Miller today. I imagine they will probably part ways, but really have no idea.

Lalouie wrote:

bwgood77 wrote:

miltk wrote:i'm pretty sure the arizona fans know this guy, greg hansen. he's tapped in and if anything is at least reflctive of the sentiment http://arizonasports.com/story/1443387/daily-star-greg-hansen-sean-miller-deandre-ayton-brian-bowen/

That guy has been after Miller for a long time. He has made statements regarding thinking it was Bowen, then said it was just wild speculation on his part, etc. He's not really tapped in because Miller never gave him the access that Lute did.

I expect something to come down regarding Miller today. I imagine they will probably part ways, but really have no idea.

As a bruin here's my thougts on the situation. I hope Zona keeps Miller. He's the most underperforming coach in America. He's never met his tourney seeding,,, fallen short every time.

I'm worried that Arizona might get a coach who can actually coach. I'd much rather see Miller on the bench and being handcuffed by the post investigation fallout than a good coach who knows what to do with talent. Somebody like Krystkowiak for instance

Lalouie wrote:

bwgood77 wrote:

miltk wrote:i'm pretty sure the arizona fans know this guy, greg hansen. he's tapped in and if anything is at least reflctive of the sentiment http://arizonasports.com/story/1443387/daily-star-greg-hansen-sean-miller-deandre-ayton-brian-bowen/

That guy has been after Miller for a long time. He has made statements regarding thinking it was Bowen, then said it was just wild speculation on his part, etc. He's not really tapped in because Miller never gave him the access that Lute did.

I expect something to come down regarding Miller today. I imagine they will probably part ways, but really have no idea.

As a bruin here's my thougts on the situation. I hope Zona keeps Miller. He's the most underperforming coach in America. He's never met his tourney seeding,,, fallen short every time.

I'm worried that Arizona might get a coach who can actually coach. I'd much rather see Miller on the bench and being handcuffed by the post investigation fallout than a good coach who knows what to do with talent. Somebody like Krystkowiak for instance

DirtyDez wrote:

Lalouie wrote:

bwgood77 wrote:
That guy has been after Miller for a long time. He has made statements regarding thinking it was Bowen, then said it was just wild speculation on his part, etc. He's not really tapped in because Miller never gave him the access that Lute did.

I expect something to come down regarding Miller today. I imagine they will probably part ways, but really have no idea.

As a bruin here's my thougts on the situation. I hope Zona keeps Miller. He's the most underperforming coach in America. He's never met his tourney seeding,,, fallen short every time.

I'm worried that Arizona might get a coach who can actually coach. I'd much rather see Miller on the bench and being handcuffed by the post investigation fallout than a good coach who knows what to do with talent. Somebody like Krystkowiak for instance

Miller’s problem the last few years has been the defense. He isn’t recruiting kids that play defense anymore like Gordon, Hollis-Jefferson, Tarczewski, Nick Johnson, TJ McConnell, KaDeem Allen etc... Ray Smith Jr was supposed to be a offensively polished version of Rondae but he’s tore his ACL 3 times. Justin Simon transferred to St John’s and he’s playing well. Akot and Randolph haven’t caught up as fast as we thought. All 5 starters strengths are scoring the ball and you don’t win championships like that.

With the FBI investigation it doesn’t look like Arizona will be landing big time recruits anytime soon which isn’t the worst thing. Miller needs to get back to the basics and recruit/develop guys like he did at Xavier.

miltk wrote:

DirtyDez wrote:

Lalouie wrote:
As a bruin here's my thougts on the situation. I hope Zona keeps Miller. He's the most underperforming coach in America. He's never met his tourney seeding,,, fallen short every time.

I'm worried that Arizona might get a coach who can actually coach. I'd much rather see Miller on the bench and being handcuffed by the post investigation fallout than a good coach who knows what to do with talent. Somebody like Krystkowiak for instance

Miller’s problem the last few years has been the defense. He isn’t recruiting kids that play defense anymore like Gordon, Hollis-Jefferson, Tarczewski, Nick Johnson, TJ McConnell, KaDeem Allen etc... Ray Smith Jr was supposed to be a offensively polished version of Rondae but he’s tore his ACL 3 times. Justin Simon transferred to St John’s and he’s playing well. Akot and Randolph haven’t caught up as fast as we thought. All 5 starters strengths are scoring the ball and you don’t win championships like that.

With the FBI investigation it doesn’t look like Arizona will be landing big time recruits anytime soon which isn’t the worst thing. Miller needs to get back to the basics and recruit/develop guys like he did at Xavier.

i think college ball is a little more cut and dried. there is such a talent disparity between the haves and have nots that some things can easily be solved by recruiting the better talent and zona has this in spades. you need the athletic talent to read react anyway.

this buffalo thing is a fiasco. this wasn't an upset, it was a good old fashioned spanking. i'm not one to gloat - it's just bad karma, but as i've said before, the TUSCON community is the draw. zona can get any coach they want

bwgood77 wrote:

miltk wrote:

DirtyDez wrote:
Miller’s problem the last few years has been the defense. He isn’t recruiting kids that play defense anymore like Gordon, Hollis-Jefferson, Tarczewski, Nick Johnson, TJ McConnell, KaDeem Allen etc... Ray Smith Jr was supposed to be a offensively polished version of Rondae but he’s tore his ACL 3 times. Justin Simon transferred to St John’s and he’s playing well. Akot and Randolph haven’t caught up as fast as we thought. All 5 starters strengths are scoring the ball and you don’t win championships like that.

With the FBI investigation it doesn’t look like Arizona will be landing big time recruits anytime soon which isn’t the worst thing. Miller needs to get back to the basics and recruit/develop guys like he did at Xavier.

i think college ball is a little more cut and dried. there is such a talent disparity between the haves and have nots that some things can easily be solved by recruiting the better talent and zona has this in spades. you need the athletic talent to read react anyway.

this buffalo thing is a fiasco. this wasn't an upset, it was a good old fashioned spanking. i'm not one to gloat - it's just bad karma, but as i've said before, the TUSCON community is the draw. zona can get any coach they want

I thought AZ might get upset early this year, but I still don't think it's a product of his coaching. I wouldn't get rid of him quite yet. I think even with lesser talent he could overachieve. They could likely get a great new coach, but I think they will ride out this wave for a bit even if the next couple of years are tough.