RealGM

I must admit he a great recruiter but does anyone feel he is overrated as a coach . His teams are usually the most talented team but they always lose to inferior talent in the big games .

he usually gets guards who are freakishly athletic but can't shoot. To be successful in the tourny, you have to have shooters.

While Kentucky was probably the most talented team in the tourney this year, I never really liked them to win it all. I felt they would show their youth sometime in the tourney and last night they showed it. And he should have won it the year Derrick Rose was there in Memphis but free throws killed them. But yeah he's a great recruiter but not a very good coach. But then again same could be said for Bill Self and several other successful coaches in CBB.

I feel Tom Izzo is by far the best coach in college basketball and would like to see what he could do in the NBA. He doesn't get the best recruits like Cal and others do but he somehow has his team fighting for the Final Four every single year.

Part of Izzo's success is that he doesn't get the 1 and done players. He has time to build a team with players who buy into his system. They are usually the 2nd tier recruits who are borderline NBA players or will have a career overseas. I agree that Izzo is easily the best coach in college basketball right now and I'm glad he's on my team.

That said, I don't think Calipari is overrated at all, unless people are thinking he's the greatest. Outside of Izzo and maybe Coach K. he's probably got the best ability to immediately build a program into something (at least until the NCAA strips them of their wins down the road). For a school like Kentucky, who would you rather have running your ship? Izzo and Coach K. are fixtures at their schools, so they'd never jump ship. Roy Williams is probably set at UNC. So you either take a guy like Calipari who will bring a different array of 1 and done stars every year, or you try to find a young coach who will be a future fixture like Izzo is in East Lansing. I don't really think Kentucky alumni have the patience for that. Izzo was in the NIT his first few years after Jud left and Respert and Snow were gone. If he hadn't been able to recruit Cleaves, there's no way he would have made it another year.

Kentucky just doesn't have the patience to wait for someone to build a program with a solid infrastructure like that. That's why Calipari's style is perfect for them. They get to see all the future NBA players they want, they'll get tons of trips to the tournament, multiple final 4s...Calipari delivers all he's asked to. It's just a different type of success than you get from the program-builders.

GenshiYagyu wrote:Part of Izzo's success is that he doesn't get the 1 and done players. He has time to build a team with players who buy into his system. They are usually the 2nd tier recruits who are borderline NBA players or will have a career overseas. I agree that Izzo is easily the best coach in college basketball right now and I'm glad he's on my team.

That said, I don't think Calipari is overrated at all, unless people are thinking he's the greatest. Outside of Izzo and maybe Coach K. he's probably got the best ability to immediately build a program into something (at least until the NCAA strips them of their wins down the road). For a school like Kentucky, who would you rather have running your ship? Izzo and Coach K. are fixtures at their schools, so they'd never jump ship. Roy Williams is probably set at UNC. So you either take a guy like Calipari who will bring a different array of 1 and done stars every year, or you try to find a young coach who will be a future fixture like Izzo is in East Lansing. I don't really think Kentucky alumni have the patience for that. Izzo was in the NIT his first few years after Jud left and Respert and Snow were gone. If he hadn't been able to recruit Cleaves, there's no way he would have made it another year.

Kentucky just doesn't have the patience to wait for someone to build a program with a solid infrastructure like that. That's why Calipari's style is perfect for them. They get to see all the future NBA players they want, they'll get tons of trips to the tournament, multiple final 4s...Calipari delivers all he's asked to. It's just a different type of success than you get from the program-builders.

True. And why wouldn't Calipari go after the elite 1 and dones? It gives him a top 5 team every year. At UMass he couldn't get that level of talent. At Memphis and UK he could. He'll get his championship within the next 5 years just like Roy eventually got one, and then another at UNC, and Self got one.

If Wall could of hit the side of a barn from 10 feet out, Calipari would of been a great coach.

Calipari is a great coach, and an even better recruiter. It's amazing how many top 5 HS players and 5 star recruits this guy gets.

Overrated as a coach? Yes. Not to say he isn't good, but not as good as many people are lead to believe.

He's leveraging the Bulls job into even more money on his ridiculous contract. With Calipari you can always expect to get success at the price of sleaze.

Jase wrote:Overrated as a coach? Yes. Not to say he isn't good, but not as good as many people are lead to believe.

I think Calipari gets praised for being a great recruiter, energizing the fan base, and knowing how to schmooze with alumni and boosters. I can't think of the last time I heard anyone refer to him as a great Xs and Os guy or a guy who can get a lesser talented team to overachieve. From that standpoint, I don't think his coaching abilities per se have been overrated. I think the powers-that-be at Kentucky got exactly what they were expecting.

GenshiYagyu wrote:sleaze.

Nuff said.

And while Cal is a great recruiter, he's not even the best out there. Maybe I'm a homer, but Roy is 3-0 against Cal when both are going head-to-head with all resources.

And plus,

GenshiYagyu wrote:sleaze.

If he gets the chance to coach Lebron anywhere other than NJ, I think he does it...

Coaches move around so often, I wouldn't be surprised if JC finds himself a few states over. Am I just crazy?

http://www.msg.com/blogs/jon-rothstein/ ... 13-1.42609

calimari's best ability has been to embrace the whole 1done concept. as a "coach", he hasn't won a thing....NOT A THING, just remember that! but also as a college coach, part of the job is to recruit and calimari can recruit straight up with williams. he just stole terrence williams from washington, a remakable feat when you consider williams had already verballed to wash. and had stated for a long time that he wanted to stay close to family(in oregon).

there's a volatile mix going on at kentucky. you take a rabid basketball scene with overzealous baackers + a coach who's left schools in sanction = i'm waiting for the hammer to fall.

what'll be interesting will be to see what happens with the 1done rule. if kids will be allowed to jump to the nba, that'll cut into 70% of calimari's players.

GenshiYagyu wrote:Part of Izzo's success is that he doesn't get the 1 and done players. He has time to build a team with players who buy into his system. They are usually the 2nd tier recruits who are borderline NBA players or will have a career overseas. I agree that Izzo is easily the best coach in college basketball right now and I'm glad he's on my team.

That said, I don't think Calipari is overrated at all, unless people are thinking he's the greatest. Outside of Izzo and maybe Coach K. he's probably got the best ability to immediately build a program into something (at least until the NCAA strips them of their wins down the road). For a school like Kentucky, who would you rather have running your ship? Izzo and Coach K. are fixtures at their schools, so they'd never jump ship. Roy Williams is probably set at UNC. So you either take a guy like Calipari who will bring a different array of 1 and done stars every year, or you try to find a young coach who will be a future fixture like Izzo is in East Lansing. I don't really think Kentucky alumni have the patience for that. Izzo was in the NIT his first few years after Jud left and Respert and Snow were gone. If he hadn't been able to recruit Cleaves, there's no way he would have made it another year.

Kentucky just doesn't have the patience to wait for someone to build a program with a solid infrastructure like that. That's why Calipari's style is perfect for them. They get to see all the future NBA players they want, they'll get tons of trips to the tournament, multiple final 4s...Calipari delivers all he's asked to. It's just a different type of success than you get from the program-builders.

This is a very good summary. Calipari is definitely not the best x's and o's guy. He is solid but not anything special in the way of making in-game adjustments, etc. He is the game's best recruiter right now - his classes for 2009, 2010 and 2011 are a three year string that is unprecedented since the Wooden era. As a whole that makes him an outstanding coach since recruiting is the single most important part of the job (look at what happened to basketball genius Bobby Knight when he ran out of elite players at Indiana and was bounced from the first round of the NCAAs like 7 years in a row).

miltk wrote:what'll be interesting will be to see what happens with the 1done rule. if kids will be allowed to jump to the nba, that'll cut into 70% of calimari's players.

Do you think he'll not be able to land the next tier of players? If the NBA opened itself up to HS players again and the top 15 HS players jumped to the NBA every season, why would Cal have success recruiting players 16-40 like he now recruits 1-25?

I am willing to deal with the "will he, won't he go to the NBA" drama to have the program relevant again. I am also willing to deal with player-driven violations that come with the territory to some extent when you are recruiting the top players (think Corey Maggette except without the school being immune to sanctions). I am not willing to deal with the Coach doing any serious violation of the rules and am working off the assumption that this is not going on since Coach Cal has never been accused of this in the past.

On Terrence Jones, it wasn't like he was "stolen" away after a verbal. He admitted that he randomly picked between Wash and UK on the stage and that he told Calipari after the press conference that he hadn't made up his mind yet and was still deciding between UK and Washington.

Atlanta Hawk Fan wrote:

I am willing to deal with the "will he, won't he go to the NBA" drama to have the program relevant again. I am also willing to deal with player-driven violations that come with the territory to some extent when you are recruiting the top players (think Corey Maggette except without the school being immune to sanctions). I am not willing to deal with the Coach doing any serious violation of the rules and am working off the assumption that this is not going on since Coach Cal has never been accused of this in the past.

Really? If the team is accused, the coach is certainly accused. It's just that Cal is slick enough to not have any proof against him, but let it ALL fall against the school. If I were a UK fan like you, I'd be especially worried that I'm going to be hit with ANOTHER major violation while Cal skips off to the next "historic" university to potentially break into shambles.

Atlanta Hawk Fan wrote:

miltk wrote:what'll be interesting will be to see what happens with the 1done rule. if kids will be allowed to jump to the nba, that'll cut into 70% of calimari's players.

Do you think he'll not be able to land the next tier of players? If the NBA opened itself up to HS players again and the top 15 HS players jumped to the NBA every season, why would Cal have success recruiting players 16-40 like he now recruits 1-25?


.

calimari's push to the FF's in the last 3 years has been on the shoulders of Rose, Evans, and Wall. As loaded as those teams were, they all depended on THE one player. it doesn't matter what he does with recruits16-40, which btw may as well be 16-100.

on a side, only rose/evans are doing anything in the L. (cdr, carney, dorsey[and dorsey will be done soon]). the thing is, calimari has ONLY shown an ability to recruit, and that is all. all he has actually done with his talent, either as a team or individually, is to showcase elite 1dones to the nba....nothing more

miltk wrote:

Atlanta Hawk Fan wrote:

miltk wrote:what'll be interesting will be to see what happens with the 1done rule. if kids will be allowed to jump to the nba, that'll cut into 70% of calimari's players.

Do you think he'll not be able to land the next tier of players? If the NBA opened itself up to HS players again and the top 15 HS players jumped to the NBA every season, why would Cal have success recruiting players 16-40 like he now recruits 1-25?


.

calimari's push to the FF's in the last 3 years has been on the shoulders of Rose, Evans, and Wall. As loaded as those teams were, they all depended on THE one player. it doesn't matter what he does with recruits16-40, which btw may as well be 16-100.

on a side, only rose/evans are doing anything in the L. (cdr, carney, dorsey[and dorsey will be done soon]). the thing is, calimari has ONLY shown an ability to recruit, and that is all. all he has actually done with his talent, either as a team or individually, is to showcase elite 1dones to the nba....nothing more

How do you explain the dramatic improvement at UMass before he landed Camby?

UMass won 30 games total in the 3 seasons before Calipari was hired.

In 1991-92, Calipari won 30 games with the following roster:

No. Name Yr. Pos. Ht. Wt. Hometown/High School/Last School
5 Francois Firmin Sr. G 6-0 170 Dorchester, Mass./Dorchester
10 Mike Williams Fr. G 6-2 165 Hartford, Conn./Weaver
11 Anton Brown Sr. G 6-2 175 Columbia, S.C./A.C Flora
12 Chris Robinson So. G 6-2 195 New York, N.Y./LaSalle Academy
14 Derek Kellog Fr. G 6-2 180 Springfield, Mass./Cathedral
15 Lou Roe Fr. F 6-7 210 Atlantic City, N.J./Atlantic City
20 Jim McCoy Sr. G 6-4 180 Pittsburgh, Pa./Central Catholic
22 Tony Barbee Jr. F/G 6-6 215 Indianapois, Ind./N.Central
24 Jerome Malloy Fr. G 6-3 170 Waterbury, Conn./Kennedy
31 Harper Williams Jr. F 6-7 230 Bridgeport, Conn./Bassick
33 Jeff Meyer So. C 7-2 220 Wausau, Wis./Wausau
34 William Herndon Sr. F 6-3 220 Pittsburgh, Pa./Taylor Allderdice
35 Tommy Pace Jr. F 6-6 220 Denver, Colo./Manual
40 Ted Cottrell Fr. F 6-9 179 Annapolis, Md./Annapolis
42 Kennard Robinson Jr. F/C 6-10 215 Bronx, N.Y./Long Island Lutheran
50 Scott Drapeau Fr. F 6-7 225 Concord, N.H./Merrimack Valley

Who is the Derrick Rose among this bunch?

The only player who got a cup of coffee in the NBA was Lou Roe and he had a career total of 130 points in the league.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

Atlanta Hawk Fan wrote:

I am willing to deal with the "will he, won't he go to the NBA" drama to have the program relevant again. I am also willing to deal with player-driven violations that come with the territory to some extent when you are recruiting the top players (think Corey Maggette except without the school being immune to sanctions). I am not willing to deal with the Coach doing any serious violation of the rules and am working off the assumption that this is not going on since Coach Cal has never been accused of this in the past.

Really? If the team is accused, the coach is certainly accused. It's just that Cal is slick enough to not have any proof against him, but let it ALL fall against the school. If I were a UK fan like you, I'd be especially worried that I'm going to be hit with ANOTHER major violation while Cal skips off to the next "historic" university to potentially break into shambles.

The coach was exonerated in both NCAA investigations and no one has even suggested he was involved in either situation. This bothers me just as much as Corey Maggette taking money makes me question Coach K's credibility with the exception that Coach K is more bulletproof and thus less likely to draw unwanted attention if the same thing were to happen with one of his players versus the attention Calipari would draw with the same thing happening with one of his players. Had Corey Maggette been playing at UMass, those wins would have been vacated. It would have stunk for the school but I wouldn't have blamed Calipari anymore than Duke should have blamed Coach K.

Atlanta Hawk Fan wrote:How do you explain the dramatic improvement at UMass before he landed Camby?

UMass won 30 games total in the 3 seasons before Calipari was hired.

In 1991-92, Calipari won 30 games with the following roster:

No. Name Yr. Pos. Ht. Wt. Hometown/High School/Last School
5 Francois Firmin Sr. G 6-0 170 Dorchester, Mass./Dorchester
10 Mike Williams Fr. G 6-2 165 Hartford, Conn./Weaver
11 Anton Brown Sr. G 6-2 175 Columbia, S.C./A.C Flora
12 Chris Robinson So. G 6-2 195 New York, N.Y./LaSalle Academy
14 Derek Kellog Fr. G 6-2 180 Springfield, Mass./Cathedral
15 Lou Roe Fr. F 6-7 210 Atlantic City, N.J./Atlantic City
20 Jim McCoy Sr. G 6-4 180 Pittsburgh, Pa./Central Catholic
22 Tony Barbee Jr. F/G 6-6 215 Indianapois, Ind./N.Central
24 Jerome Malloy Fr. G 6-3 170 Waterbury, Conn./Kennedy
31 Harper Williams Jr. F 6-7 230 Bridgeport, Conn./Bassick
33 Jeff Meyer So. C 7-2 220 Wausau, Wis./Wausau
34 William Herndon Sr. F 6-3 220 Pittsburgh, Pa./Taylor Allderdice
35 Tommy Pace Jr. F 6-6 220 Denver, Colo./Manual
40 Ted Cottrell Fr. F 6-9 179 Annapolis, Md./Annapolis
42 Kennard Robinson Jr. F/C 6-10 215 Bronx, N.Y./Long Island Lutheran
50 Scott Drapeau Fr. F 6-7 225 Concord, N.H./Merrimack Valley

Who is the Derrick Rose among this bunch?

The only player who got a cup of coffee in the NBA was Lou Roe and he had a career total of 130 points in the league.

It's funny how people don't acknowledge those early-mid 90's UMASS teams Calipari overachieved with every year. The guy is a brilliant college coach, period.