Casper's 2010 Mock Draft and more:
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Casper's 2010 Mock Draft and more:
- Casperkid23
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Casper's 2010 Mock Draft and more:
Short intro since this is my first thread here:
Sup, my name is Casper and I'm a NBA Draft nut. I try to come up with new ways to help rank prospects outside of what's typically seen on draft sites, but I also keep records of how various places have ranked their players since we all like accountability and seeing how rankings have changed. I watch a ton of college basketball thanks to online streams and actually take some notes (sad, I know) on players when watching them for the first or second time to help lead me away from... misremembering.
Anyway, here's the first mock.
1st Round:
1. Washington - John Wall (PG):
The Arenas era is over; the John Wall era has now begun. This pick is a lock now per reports.
2. Philadelphia - Evan Turner (SG/SF):
This pick could be moved so Philadelphia picks up more value as Turner and Iguodala duplicate each other’s strengths and weaknesses a little too much. I believe they would be almost equally as happy with Favors or Cousins, but right now Turner is the safer bet.
3. New Jersey - Derrick Favors (PF/C):
Lopez isn’t really a brutish player down low, but he’s a very skilled offensive player who can also step out and hit a jumper. Favors is a tough-nosed player and he has the athleticism Lopez lacks. This is a spectacular fit.
4. Minnesota - DeMarcus Cousins (C):
This represents a BPA pick as DeMarcus has the potential to be dominant. It is also a pick which will drastically change the franchise as Al and Cousins likely cannot coexist, but Cousins is the larger and more talented of the two.
5. Sacramento - Wesley Johnson (SF):
This is a tough pick for the Kings, and don’t be surprised to see them move up or down. They need talent which fits next to Evans, but they would highly prefer it to be a big with defensive ability. However, as the value isn’t there, they instead go for BPA and take Johnson - even though they already have Casspi and Greene.
6. Golden State - Greg Monroe (PF/C):
The Warriors really don’t have a specific need besides being healthy and reorganizing their talent. Seeing as they already have athletes in the frontcourt, Monroe’s athletic and defensive deficiencies could be covered up and his skills could be maximized.
7. Detroit - Ed Davis (PF):
Detroit needs help just about everywhere, and as such they cannot afford passing up the potential Davis has on both ends of the floor. He’ll fill a huge hole in the Pistons rotation next year, possibly starting by year’s end.
8. LA Clippers - Al-Farouq Aminu (SF/PF):
Aminu fills a huge hole at SF for the Clippers, while also having the ability to play PF next to Griffin when they go small. This pick would leave them heavily reliant on the PG position for playmaking, but it could also create matchup nightmares for opponents.
9. Utah (from NY) - Cole Aldrich (C):
Gift wrapping Utah an NBA-ready defensive Center would be like an early Christmas, even if he isn’t the BPA. He doesn’t offer much upside, but it beats relying on Fesenko or Koufos to develop, while also being a decent fit with Millsap.
10. Indiana - Ekpe Udoh (PF/C):
This is a tough spot for Indiana. Do they go with upside or readiness? Athleticism or skill? Size or playmaking? They kind of get all of that here. Henry could get a look here as BPA, but Udoh makes more sense.
11. New Orleans - Xavier Henry (SG/SF):
Henry is the BPA at this point, and the Hornets love that he fell. Not only does Henry fill a gigantic hole in the Hornets rotation, but he also has the potential to be a plus player on both ends of the floor, and also has the length to play SF when Thornton is sharing the court with him.
12. Memphis - Paul George (SG/SF):
If they allow Gay to walk, then George would look like an excellent fit - and even if they do not, Mayo, George, and Gay could all play on the floor together and create huge mismatch problems with their athleticism and scoring ability.
13. Toronto - Patrick Patterson (PF):
Losing Bosh is certainly going to sting, but Toronto can’t panic. Patterson - while not a high potential player like the BPA Whiteside - could immediately come in and be a nice fit next to Bargnani, while also being an extremely safe choice with minimal downside.
14. Houston - Hassan Whiteside (PF/C):
Upside pick that Houston can afford to take, even with the red flags surrounding him. Yao has another year on his contract, and the Rockets are likely to have frontcourt depth ahead of Whiteside this year. That’s okay, however, as it will allow him time to mature and also make him earn his minutes.
15. Milwaukee (from CHI) - James Anderson (SG/SF):
Jennings needs a guy to play off his dominant ball-handling that can shoot and occasionally take it to the rim. Anderson brings that as well as decent playmaking and defense to the table for a team that could use the help on the wing immediately.
16. Minnesota (from CHA) - Damion James (SF/PF):
The Timberwolves really need help on the wing, and they would be upset if this is how the draft fell, as all three of their targets just went. However, James brings toughness and scoring ability - and while he doesn’t have much upside, he also is a pretty safe bet to produce on both ends.
17. Chicago (from MIL) - Willie Warren (SG):
Warren has certainly fallen out of favor with the masses over the past year, but I still think he has the upside to be pretty good in the NBA. Working off more talented players, he could be a deadly sharpshooter with handles. It’s all about finding players to fit next to Rose and the FAs they bring in, I think Warren is what they’re looking for.
18. Miami - Avery Bradley (PG/SG):
Bradley isn’t currently ready to play PG in a traditional role, but the Heat don’t need that if they keep Wade. He can immediately step in and give them excellent defense as well as solid shooting in his limited minutes, while learning to become more of a playmaker.
19. Boston - Luke Babbitt (SF/PF):
Babbitt measured out better than almost everyone expected, and while I’m still not high on him, it will probably get him selected before the late-1st. I don’t think the Celtics could justify taking an athletic PF/C like Sanders when they have a bigger need for offensive production, so Babbitt gets the look here as one of the most skilled offensive players on the board.
20. San Antonio - Gordon Hayward (SF):
They need toughness, length, and shooting at the SF spot since Jefferson clearly didn’t give them that. Hayward doesn’t give them the length they’d be looking for, but he could become a deadly shooter who also plays tougher than he looks.
21. Oklahoma City - Daniel Orton (C):
I personally would dislike this pick if I were an OKC fan; however this is a mock, not my big board. Some team will reach for him early because of his size, athleticism, and thug-like nature on the court; and I think that team will be the Thunder as he is a hometown player who also fills a big need.
22. Portland - Kevin Seraphin (PF/C):
They were decimated by injuries last year, and could have Oden and Przybilla start off the year watching games in suits. Seraphin is an upside pick, but also should be able to contribute a crude, but punishing game on offense his first year; while also giving them plus production defensively and on the boards.
23. Minnesota (from UTA) - Terrico White (SG):
Minnesota likely moves up in the draft using this pick, but if not, I like White here. Ebanks is BPA in my opinion, but they need to take a scorer with this pick given the James pick at 16. White gives them a player with very nice athleticism and offensive tools, but lacks consistency on both ends.
24. Atlanta - Larry Sanders (PF/C):
The Hawks need size and defense. Sanders brings great defensive ability as well as an excellent frame, but doesn’t have the bulk they’d be looking for. However, seeing that he’s put on about 15lbs of “good” weight in the past two seasons (he only has 4.6% body fat); I think he could eventually bulk up to 240-250 and be a menace for Atlanta.
25. Memphis (from DEN) - Eric Bledsoe (PG/SG):
Conley doesn’t seem to be a guy worth considering part of their core, even though he’s a decent player. As such, they go with Bledsoe who - even if Conley is kept longterm - can play a role as a comboguard off the bench that will give them a great defender and decent shooting.
26. Oklahoma City (from PHX) - Devin Ebanks (SF/PF):
I don’t know if they keep both picks, but I’ll pick as though they will. They already took Orton, so now they need to keep filling in role players around their star duo. Ebanks is the BPA and gives them yet another defensive ace who, if he continues to develop his jumper, could be a great role player in the NBA with a wide array of skills.
27. New Jersey (from DAL) - (SF): Quincy Pondexter
The Nets should use this pick to guess at the type of role player a star FA would want to surround him. You can never have enough role players who are very athletic and have the ability to guard three positions, while also able to create for themselves - so Pondexter is the pick here.
28. Memphis (from LAL) - Elliot Williams (SG):
I cannot see Memphis taking three rookies this year, so I would assume they will trade up or out of one of their later picks. However, if they do keep all three, I think they’ll go with Elliot Williams who grew up in Tennessee, played at Memphis, and is a pretty good athlete that can be a scorer/slasher off the bench.
29. Orlando - Darington Hobson (SG/SF):
Hobson is a decent athlete, can handle the ball, and shoot it from deep. While he doesn’t have the star potential on the wing which they seemed to need in the playoffs, he can fill a void off the bench and then eventually earn a starting spot and allow Nelson to work off him at times.
30. Washington (from CLE) - Solomon Alabi (C):
Could he slip all the way to the last pick in the 1st round? It’s possible, especially when a lot of teams don’t necessarily need a C at the end of the 1st in this mock. He gives the Wizards a legit C with good defense and budding skills, as well as a high character guy. I don’t know if he’ll ever be a big-minute player, but this is good value.
2nd Round:
31. New Jersey - Tibor Pleiss (C)
32. Oklahoma City (from MIN) - Dominique Jones (SG)
33. Sacramento - Jerome Jordan (C)
34. Golden State - Stanley Robinson (SF)
35. Washington - Gani Lawal (PF)
36. Detroit - Artsiom Parakhouski (C)
37. Milwaukee (from PHI) - Greivis Vasquez (PG/SG)
38. New York - Lance Stephenson (SG/SF)
39. New York (from LAC) - Trevor Booker (PF)
40. Indiana - Mikhail Torrance (PG/SG)
41. Miami (from NO) - Craig Brackins (PF)
42. Miami (from TOR) - Jordan Crawford (SG)
43. LA Lakers (from MEM) - Armon Johnson (PG/SG)
44. Portland (from CHI) - Paulao Prestes (C)
45. Minnesota (from HOU) - Nemanja Bjelica (SG/SF)
46. Phoenix (from CHA) - Brian Zoubek (C)
47. Milwaukee - Pablo Aguilar (PF)
48. Miami - Lazar Hayward (SF)
49. San Antonio - Sylven Landesberg (SG)
50. Dallas (from OKC) - Derrick Caracter (PF/C)
51. Oklahoma City (from POR) - Alexey Shved (PG/SG)
52. Boston - Manny Harris (SG)
53. Atlanta - Miroslav Raduljica (C)
54. LA Clippers (from DEN) - Jerome Randle (PG)
55. Utah - Da’Sean Butler (SF)
56. Minnesota (from PHO) - Vladimir Dasic (SF/PF)
57. Indiana (from DAL) - Latavious Williams (SF/PF)
58. LA Lakers - Dexter Pittman (C)
59. Orlando - Charles Garcia (PF)
60. Phoenix (from CLE) - Luke Harangody (PF)
Sup, my name is Casper and I'm a NBA Draft nut. I try to come up with new ways to help rank prospects outside of what's typically seen on draft sites, but I also keep records of how various places have ranked their players since we all like accountability and seeing how rankings have changed. I watch a ton of college basketball thanks to online streams and actually take some notes (sad, I know) on players when watching them for the first or second time to help lead me away from... misremembering.
Anyway, here's the first mock.
1st Round:
1. Washington - John Wall (PG):
The Arenas era is over; the John Wall era has now begun. This pick is a lock now per reports.
2. Philadelphia - Evan Turner (SG/SF):
This pick could be moved so Philadelphia picks up more value as Turner and Iguodala duplicate each other’s strengths and weaknesses a little too much. I believe they would be almost equally as happy with Favors or Cousins, but right now Turner is the safer bet.
3. New Jersey - Derrick Favors (PF/C):
Lopez isn’t really a brutish player down low, but he’s a very skilled offensive player who can also step out and hit a jumper. Favors is a tough-nosed player and he has the athleticism Lopez lacks. This is a spectacular fit.
4. Minnesota - DeMarcus Cousins (C):
This represents a BPA pick as DeMarcus has the potential to be dominant. It is also a pick which will drastically change the franchise as Al and Cousins likely cannot coexist, but Cousins is the larger and more talented of the two.
5. Sacramento - Wesley Johnson (SF):
This is a tough pick for the Kings, and don’t be surprised to see them move up or down. They need talent which fits next to Evans, but they would highly prefer it to be a big with defensive ability. However, as the value isn’t there, they instead go for BPA and take Johnson - even though they already have Casspi and Greene.
6. Golden State - Greg Monroe (PF/C):
The Warriors really don’t have a specific need besides being healthy and reorganizing their talent. Seeing as they already have athletes in the frontcourt, Monroe’s athletic and defensive deficiencies could be covered up and his skills could be maximized.
7. Detroit - Ed Davis (PF):
Detroit needs help just about everywhere, and as such they cannot afford passing up the potential Davis has on both ends of the floor. He’ll fill a huge hole in the Pistons rotation next year, possibly starting by year’s end.
8. LA Clippers - Al-Farouq Aminu (SF/PF):
Aminu fills a huge hole at SF for the Clippers, while also having the ability to play PF next to Griffin when they go small. This pick would leave them heavily reliant on the PG position for playmaking, but it could also create matchup nightmares for opponents.
9. Utah (from NY) - Cole Aldrich (C):
Gift wrapping Utah an NBA-ready defensive Center would be like an early Christmas, even if he isn’t the BPA. He doesn’t offer much upside, but it beats relying on Fesenko or Koufos to develop, while also being a decent fit with Millsap.
10. Indiana - Ekpe Udoh (PF/C):
This is a tough spot for Indiana. Do they go with upside or readiness? Athleticism or skill? Size or playmaking? They kind of get all of that here. Henry could get a look here as BPA, but Udoh makes more sense.
11. New Orleans - Xavier Henry (SG/SF):
Henry is the BPA at this point, and the Hornets love that he fell. Not only does Henry fill a gigantic hole in the Hornets rotation, but he also has the potential to be a plus player on both ends of the floor, and also has the length to play SF when Thornton is sharing the court with him.
12. Memphis - Paul George (SG/SF):
If they allow Gay to walk, then George would look like an excellent fit - and even if they do not, Mayo, George, and Gay could all play on the floor together and create huge mismatch problems with their athleticism and scoring ability.
13. Toronto - Patrick Patterson (PF):
Losing Bosh is certainly going to sting, but Toronto can’t panic. Patterson - while not a high potential player like the BPA Whiteside - could immediately come in and be a nice fit next to Bargnani, while also being an extremely safe choice with minimal downside.
14. Houston - Hassan Whiteside (PF/C):
Upside pick that Houston can afford to take, even with the red flags surrounding him. Yao has another year on his contract, and the Rockets are likely to have frontcourt depth ahead of Whiteside this year. That’s okay, however, as it will allow him time to mature and also make him earn his minutes.
15. Milwaukee (from CHI) - James Anderson (SG/SF):
Jennings needs a guy to play off his dominant ball-handling that can shoot and occasionally take it to the rim. Anderson brings that as well as decent playmaking and defense to the table for a team that could use the help on the wing immediately.
16. Minnesota (from CHA) - Damion James (SF/PF):
The Timberwolves really need help on the wing, and they would be upset if this is how the draft fell, as all three of their targets just went. However, James brings toughness and scoring ability - and while he doesn’t have much upside, he also is a pretty safe bet to produce on both ends.
17. Chicago (from MIL) - Willie Warren (SG):
Warren has certainly fallen out of favor with the masses over the past year, but I still think he has the upside to be pretty good in the NBA. Working off more talented players, he could be a deadly sharpshooter with handles. It’s all about finding players to fit next to Rose and the FAs they bring in, I think Warren is what they’re looking for.
18. Miami - Avery Bradley (PG/SG):
Bradley isn’t currently ready to play PG in a traditional role, but the Heat don’t need that if they keep Wade. He can immediately step in and give them excellent defense as well as solid shooting in his limited minutes, while learning to become more of a playmaker.
19. Boston - Luke Babbitt (SF/PF):
Babbitt measured out better than almost everyone expected, and while I’m still not high on him, it will probably get him selected before the late-1st. I don’t think the Celtics could justify taking an athletic PF/C like Sanders when they have a bigger need for offensive production, so Babbitt gets the look here as one of the most skilled offensive players on the board.
20. San Antonio - Gordon Hayward (SF):
They need toughness, length, and shooting at the SF spot since Jefferson clearly didn’t give them that. Hayward doesn’t give them the length they’d be looking for, but he could become a deadly shooter who also plays tougher than he looks.
21. Oklahoma City - Daniel Orton (C):
I personally would dislike this pick if I were an OKC fan; however this is a mock, not my big board. Some team will reach for him early because of his size, athleticism, and thug-like nature on the court; and I think that team will be the Thunder as he is a hometown player who also fills a big need.
22. Portland - Kevin Seraphin (PF/C):
They were decimated by injuries last year, and could have Oden and Przybilla start off the year watching games in suits. Seraphin is an upside pick, but also should be able to contribute a crude, but punishing game on offense his first year; while also giving them plus production defensively and on the boards.
23. Minnesota (from UTA) - Terrico White (SG):
Minnesota likely moves up in the draft using this pick, but if not, I like White here. Ebanks is BPA in my opinion, but they need to take a scorer with this pick given the James pick at 16. White gives them a player with very nice athleticism and offensive tools, but lacks consistency on both ends.
24. Atlanta - Larry Sanders (PF/C):
The Hawks need size and defense. Sanders brings great defensive ability as well as an excellent frame, but doesn’t have the bulk they’d be looking for. However, seeing that he’s put on about 15lbs of “good” weight in the past two seasons (he only has 4.6% body fat); I think he could eventually bulk up to 240-250 and be a menace for Atlanta.
25. Memphis (from DEN) - Eric Bledsoe (PG/SG):
Conley doesn’t seem to be a guy worth considering part of their core, even though he’s a decent player. As such, they go with Bledsoe who - even if Conley is kept longterm - can play a role as a comboguard off the bench that will give them a great defender and decent shooting.
26. Oklahoma City (from PHX) - Devin Ebanks (SF/PF):
I don’t know if they keep both picks, but I’ll pick as though they will. They already took Orton, so now they need to keep filling in role players around their star duo. Ebanks is the BPA and gives them yet another defensive ace who, if he continues to develop his jumper, could be a great role player in the NBA with a wide array of skills.
27. New Jersey (from DAL) - (SF): Quincy Pondexter
The Nets should use this pick to guess at the type of role player a star FA would want to surround him. You can never have enough role players who are very athletic and have the ability to guard three positions, while also able to create for themselves - so Pondexter is the pick here.
28. Memphis (from LAL) - Elliot Williams (SG):
I cannot see Memphis taking three rookies this year, so I would assume they will trade up or out of one of their later picks. However, if they do keep all three, I think they’ll go with Elliot Williams who grew up in Tennessee, played at Memphis, and is a pretty good athlete that can be a scorer/slasher off the bench.
29. Orlando - Darington Hobson (SG/SF):
Hobson is a decent athlete, can handle the ball, and shoot it from deep. While he doesn’t have the star potential on the wing which they seemed to need in the playoffs, he can fill a void off the bench and then eventually earn a starting spot and allow Nelson to work off him at times.
30. Washington (from CLE) - Solomon Alabi (C):
Could he slip all the way to the last pick in the 1st round? It’s possible, especially when a lot of teams don’t necessarily need a C at the end of the 1st in this mock. He gives the Wizards a legit C with good defense and budding skills, as well as a high character guy. I don’t know if he’ll ever be a big-minute player, but this is good value.
2nd Round:
31. New Jersey - Tibor Pleiss (C)
32. Oklahoma City (from MIN) - Dominique Jones (SG)
33. Sacramento - Jerome Jordan (C)
34. Golden State - Stanley Robinson (SF)
35. Washington - Gani Lawal (PF)
36. Detroit - Artsiom Parakhouski (C)
37. Milwaukee (from PHI) - Greivis Vasquez (PG/SG)
38. New York - Lance Stephenson (SG/SF)
39. New York (from LAC) - Trevor Booker (PF)
40. Indiana - Mikhail Torrance (PG/SG)
41. Miami (from NO) - Craig Brackins (PF)
42. Miami (from TOR) - Jordan Crawford (SG)
43. LA Lakers (from MEM) - Armon Johnson (PG/SG)
44. Portland (from CHI) - Paulao Prestes (C)
45. Minnesota (from HOU) - Nemanja Bjelica (SG/SF)
46. Phoenix (from CHA) - Brian Zoubek (C)
47. Milwaukee - Pablo Aguilar (PF)
48. Miami - Lazar Hayward (SF)
49. San Antonio - Sylven Landesberg (SG)
50. Dallas (from OKC) - Derrick Caracter (PF/C)
51. Oklahoma City (from POR) - Alexey Shved (PG/SG)
52. Boston - Manny Harris (SG)
53. Atlanta - Miroslav Raduljica (C)
54. LA Clippers (from DEN) - Jerome Randle (PG)
55. Utah - Da’Sean Butler (SF)
56. Minnesota (from PHO) - Vladimir Dasic (SF/PF)
57. Indiana (from DAL) - Latavious Williams (SF/PF)
58. LA Lakers - Dexter Pittman (C)
59. Orlando - Charles Garcia (PF)
60. Phoenix (from CLE) - Luke Harangody (PF)
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Re: Casper's 2010 Mock Draft and more:
- Casperkid23
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Re: Casper's 2010 Mock Draft and more:
Other links:
Big Board (June 2nd): http://bit.ly/cqvW8L
2010 Consensus Prospect Rankings: http://bit.ly/cjoEIh
2010 Prospect Odds Sheet: http://bit.ly/8YN3tV (explanation) http://bit.ly/aQ4467 (sheet)
2010 Quality Opponent Production: http://bit.ly/au1aH2
Big Board (June 2nd): http://bit.ly/cqvW8L
2010 Consensus Prospect Rankings: http://bit.ly/cjoEIh
2010 Prospect Odds Sheet: http://bit.ly/8YN3tV (explanation) http://bit.ly/aQ4467 (sheet)
2010 Quality Opponent Production: http://bit.ly/au1aH2
NBA Draft Fanatic.
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Re: Casper's 2010 Mock Draft and more:
Honestly, I'd switch Dominique Jones (heard Chicago likes him) and Willie Warren (heard everyone's afraid of taking him in the 1st).
Other than that, nothing jumps out at me.
Other than that, nothing jumps out at me.
Re: Casper's 2010 Mock Draft and more:
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RTM wrote:Honestly, I'd switch Dominique Jones (heard Chicago likes him) and Willie Warren (heard everyone's afraid of taking him in the 1st).
Other than that, nothing jumps out at me.
Chicago's pick would be easy if Anderson somehow could slip, but that's a small chance in my opinion - and one that banks on Minnesota using the #16 to move up.
The thing with Jones, and why I do not like him, is that he is a bullish guard who is not a very good jumpshooter (either on or off the ball) and isn't a good enough playmaker to warrant the ball-dominance that he showed at USF. He's also an overrated defender in my opinion - active, but not effective. Chicago really needs someone who can work off the ball next to Rose, or at the very least be an effective jumpshooter. Warren can do that. He's more versatile offensively.
It's a tough spot for Chicago, because they are banking on free agency - but don't know which FA (or FAs) will go there yet, nor do they know if they'll move Deng or Hinrich... so they have to guess at what they'll need. That's why I went with Warren.
Until strong rumors come out, I tend to stay away from slotting a player to a certain team.
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I tend to be of the opinion that Anderson will be around, as I could see Minny taking Hayward, who honestly would be a nice fit at #16.
I'm not saying Jones will go there, but he certainly is a rising stock, whereas Warren, at this point, would be lucky to go late in the 1st.
I'm not saying Jones will go there, but he certainly is a rising stock, whereas Warren, at this point, would be lucky to go late in the 1st.
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Bucks are trying to get more athletic. Why would they pick three average at best athletes in Anderson, Vasquez, and Aguilar? They would be more interested Babbitt or Hayward at 15, at 37 any of the 5 guys picked after 37, at 47 I think they would pick Garcia, Landesberg, Randle, or Gallon over Aguilar.
Trade S. Jackson soon. NJ seems like a nice place for him.
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BucksRUS wrote:Bucks are trying to get more athletic. Why would they pick three average at best athletes in Anderson, Vasquez, and Aguilar? They would be more interested Babbitt or Hayward at 15, at 37 any of the 5 guys picked after 37, at 47 I think they would pick Garcia, Landesberg, Randle, or Gallon over Aguilar.
Are you basing athleticism on the combine results or what you see on the floor? Anderson is (in my opinion) more athletic than both of those players, and his means of scoring is far better suited for playing with Jennings than Babbitt (who has received an insane amount of hype recently) and equal to Hayward - not to mention his natural position is one which the Bucks need help at if they're going to unload Redd, and the other two players are SFs - one of whom is almost purely offensive. Not to mention he is in a totally different tier of prospects in my eyes.
Bucks need a PG if they're not going to retain Ridnour at what will likely be near the MLE level and put them close to the lux. Vasquez was the best fit for Milwaukee there because of his size and diversified skillset, but Torrance was also considered. Finally, Aguilar is a player who would be stashed because of the lack of room on Milwaukee's roster, and could potentially pay dividends in a year or two as a nice player off the bench. At that point it's about guessing who would pan out in what situation, and my guess was Aguilar.
It's your opinion versus my opinion, of course, but we obviously disagree on these things.
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Casperkid23 wrote:
Are you basing athleticism on the combine results or what you see on the floor? Anderson is (in my opinion) more athletic than both of those players, and his means of scoring is far better suited for playing with Jennings than Babbitt (who has received an insane amount of hype recently) and equal to Hayward - not to mention his natural position is one which the Bucks need help at if they're going to unload Redd, and the other two players are SFs - one of whom is almost purely offensive. Not to mention he is in a totally different tier of prospects in my eyes.
Bucks need a PG if they're not going to retain Ridnour at what will likely be near the MLE level and put them close to the lux. Vasquez was the best fit for Milwaukee there because of his size and diversified skillset, but Torrance was also considered. Finally, Aguilar is a player who would be stashed because of the lack of room on Milwaukee's roster, and could potentially pay dividends in a year or two as a nice player off the bench. At that point it's about guessing who would pan out in what situation, and my guess was Aguilar.
It's your opinion versus my opinion, of course, but we obviously disagree on these things.
The athletic results at the combine are useless. By watching the games and reading scouting reports is how I make my opinions. None of the group of Anderson, Babbitt, or Hayward is going to be lock down defenders. Babbitt and Hayward have enough athleticism to be offensively proficient in the NBA. Anderson is the one I'm not so sure of. Chad Ford had an article today about four criteria for draft busts. Lack of athleticism was one of the criteria, and Anderson was its focus.
Bucks only have 9 players under contract for next year which includes Darnell Jackson, who is on a NG contract. We will have need of all three picks to be on the roster this year, so stashing one in Europe isn't in the plans.
Trade S. Jackson soon. NJ seems like a nice place for him.
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I hate all 3 picks for Milwaukee.
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Bucks would take either of Babbitt or Hayward over Anderson.
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LUKE23 wrote:Bucks would take either of Babbitt or Hayward over Anderson.

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There are reasons to like Babbit and Hayward over Anderson, but athleticism isn't one of them.
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Re: Casper's 2010 Mock Draft and more:
Lots of shake-ups after looking at rumors. Big board won't change much, however.
1st Round:
1. Washington - John Wall (PG):
The Arenas era is over; the John Wall era has now begun. This pick is a lock now per reports.
2. Philadelphia - Evan Turner (SG/SF):
This pick could be moved so Philadelphia picks up more value as Turner and Iguodala duplicate each other’s strengths and weaknesses a little too much. I believe they would be almost equally as happy with Favors or Cousins, but right now Turner is the safer bet.
3. New Jersey - Derrick Favors (PF/C):
Lopez isn’t really a brutish player down low, but he’s a very skilled offensive player who can also step out and hit a jumper. Favors is a tough-nosed player and he has the athleticism Lopez lacks. This is a spectacular fit, though the pick is rumored to be "gettable".
4. Minnesota - DeMarcus Cousins (C):
This represents a BPA pick as DeMarcus has the potential to be dominant. It is also a pick which will drastically change the franchise as Al and Cousins likely cannot coexist, but Cousins is the larger and more talented of the two. Rumors of Minnesota not liking Cousins refuted, but don't rule out a move up or down.
5. Sacramento - Wesley Johnson (SF):
This is a tough pick for the Kings, and don’t be surprised to see them move up or down. They need talent which fits next to Evans, but they would highly prefer it to be a big with defensive ability. However, as the value isn’t there, they instead go for BPA and take Johnson - even though they already have Casspi and Greene.
6. Golden State - Greg Monroe (PF/C):
The Warriors really don’t have a specific need besides being healthy and reorganizing their talent. Seeing as they already have athletes in the frontcourt, Monroe’s athletic and defensive deficiencies could be covered up and his skills could be maximized.
7. Detroit - Ed Davis (PF):
Detroit needs help just about everywhere, and as such they cannot afford passing up the potential Davis has on both ends of the floor. He’ll fill a huge hole in the Pistons rotation next year, possibly starting by year’s end. They are likely looking to move up to select Cousins.
8. LA Clippers - Paul George (SF):
The Clippers have a need at SF, but they also could use some playmaking since Gordon lacks in that area. Aminu could get a look here since he has the ability to play PF next to Griffin when they go small, but George offers a diverse skillset and his stock has skyrocketed.
9. Utah (from NY) - Cole Aldrich (C):
Gift wrapping Utah an NBA-ready defensive Center would be like an early Christmas, even if he isn’t the BPA. He doesn’t offer much upside, but it beats relying on Fesenko or Koufos to develop, while also being a decent fit with Millsap.
10. Indiana - Xavier Henry (SG/SF):
If the Pacers trade down or out of this spot as rumored, then Henry is the pick as he’s BPA and the team targeting this pick in a trade would likely be looking to draft him. However, if they keep the pick, this is a tough spot and Aminu, Udoh, or Hayward are all possibilities.
11. New Orleans - Gordon Hayward (SF):
It is rumored that Hayward has a promise somewhere above the 12th pick. This would be a reasonable spot for him if that’s the case, even though Aminu is still on the board and represents the BPA. If he can rid himself of the streakiness which plagued him this past year, this could be a very nice fit.
12. Memphis - Al-Farouq Aminu (SF/PF):
If they allow Gay to walk, then Aminu would look like an excellent fit - and even if they do not, Mayo, Gay, and Aminu could all play on the floor together and create huge mismatch problems with their athleticism and scoring ability. This is quite a fall for him, but I'm not hearing any raving reviews and I'm not a fan.
13. Toronto - Patrick Patterson (PF):
Losing Bosh is certainly going to sting, but Toronto can’t panic. Patterson - while not a quite as good defensively like the BPA Udoh - could immediately come in and be a nice fit next to Bargnani as he has a reliable post game, while also being an extremely safe choice.
14. Houston - Hassan Whiteside (PF/C):
Upside pick that Houston can afford to take, even with the red flags surrounding him. While this pick has a high possibility of being moved, a pick of Whiteside would allow him time to mature and also make him earn his minutes - possibly giving him more motivation to reach his potential.
15. Milwaukee (from CHI) - Luke Babbitt (SF/PF):
Babbitt measured out better than almost everyone expected, and it’s rumored the Bucks like him a lot. The Bucks should give Anderson a heavy look here, but the Bucks will take one of the most skilled offensive players on the board.
16. Minnesota (from CHA) - Ekpe Udoh (PF/C):
The Timberwolves really need help on the wing, and Anderson is staring them in the face. However, Udoh is BPA and he is potentially a perfect fit alongside Cousins and would work very well in an uptempo triangle variation. I think they take him and reshape their frontcourt.
17. Chicago (from MIL) - James Anderson (SG):
Rose is a dominant ball-handler with a budding jumper, and the SG next to him needs to be able to play off the ball and be great working primarily in catch-and-shoot and screen situations. Anderson brings that as well as decent playmaking and defense to the table. Great fit.
18. Miami - Avery Bradley (PG/SG):
Bradley isn’t currently ready to play PG in a traditional role, but the Heat don’t need that if they keep Wade. He can immediately step in and give them excellent defense as well as solid shooting in his limited minutes, while learning to become more of a playmaker.
19. Boston - Willie Warren (SG):
Warren has certainly fallen out of favor with the masses over the past year, but I still think he has the upside to be pretty good in the NBA. Working off more talented players, he could be a deadly sharpshooter with handles. In Boston he could replace some of Allen’s production, and give them another handler when Rondo is off the floor.
20. San Antonio - Damion James (SF):
They need toughness, length, and spot-up shooting at the SF spot since Jefferson clearly didn’t give them that. James brings those as well as quality defense, and seems like a Popovich kind of player.
21. Oklahoma City - Daniel Orton (PF/C):
I personally would dislike this pick if I were an OKC fan; however this is a mock, not my big board. Some team will reach for him early because of his size, athleticism, and thug-like nature on the court; and I think that team will be the Thunder as he is a hometown player who also fills a big need.
22. Portland - Kevin Seraphin (PF/C):
They were decimated by injuries last year, and could have Oden and Przybilla start off the year watching games in suits. Seraphin is an upside pick, but also should be able to contribute a crude, but punishing game on offense his first year; while also giving them plus production defensively and on the boards.
23. Minnesota (from UTA) - Devin Ebanks (SF/PF):
Minnesota likely moves up in the draft using this pick, but if not, I like Ebanks here. As BPA (in my opinion at least) he does not given them an immediate boost offensively at the wing like they need, but he’ll provide lockdown defense, quality rebounding, playmaking, and also possesses a nice mid-range game. They can attempt to get the offense in Free Agency.
24. Atlanta - Larry Sanders (PF/C):
The Hawks need size and defense. Sanders brings great defensive ability as well as an excellent frame, but doesn’t have the bulk they’d be looking for. However, seeing that he’s put on about 15lbs of “good” weight in the past two seasons (he only has 4.6% body fat); I think he could eventually bulk up to 240-250 and be a menace for Atlanta.
25. Memphis (from DEN) - Eric Bledsoe (PG/SG):
Conley doesn’t seem to be a guy worth considering part of their core, even though he’s a decent player. As such, they go with Bledsoe who - even if Conley is kept longterm - can play a role as a comboguard off the bench that will give them a great defender and decent shooting.
26. Oklahoma City (from PHX) - Tibor Pleiss (C):
I don’t know if they keep both picks, but I’ll pick as though they will. They already took Orton, but it’s rumored that they also like Pleiss and they could stash him for a year or two. Their roster cannot handle any more non-impact players, so taking an international prospect makes sense.
27. New Jersey (from DAL) - Quincy Pondexter (SF):
The Nets should use this pick to guess at the type of role player a star FA would want to surround him. You can never have enough role players who are very athletic and have the ability to guard three positions, while also able to create for themselves - so Pondexter is the pick here.
28. Memphis (from LAL) - Elliot Williams (SG):
I cannot see Memphis taking three rookies this year, so I would assume they will trade up or out of one of their later picks. However, if they do keep all three, I think they’ll go with Elliot Williams who grew up in Tennessee, played at Memphis, and is a pretty good athlete that can be a scorer/slasher off the bench.
29. Orlando - Darington Hobson (SG/SF):
Hobson is rumored to have a 1st round promise. As someone who is adept at handling the ball, shooting it from deep, and also possesses decent athleticism - it makes sense. While he doesn’t have the star potential on the wing which they seemed to need in the playoffs, he can fill a void off the bench and then eventually earn a starting spot and allow Nelson to work off him at times.
30. Washington (from CLE) - Solomon Alabi (C):
Could he slip all the way to the last pick in the 1st round? It’s possible, especially when a lot of teams don’t necessarily need a C at the end of the 1st in this mock. He gives the Wizards a legit C with good defense and budding skills, as well as a high character guy. I don’t know if he’ll ever be a big-minute player, but this is good value.
2nd Round:
31. New Jersey - Artsiom Parakhouski (C)
32. Oklahoma City (from MIN) - Terrico White (SG)
33. Sacramento - Jerome Jordan (C)
34. Golden State - Dominique Jones (SG)
35. Washington - Gani Lawal (PF)
36. Detroit - Jarvis Varnado (PF)
37. Milwaukee (from PHI) - Trevor Booker (PF)
38. New York - Lance Stephenson (SG/SF)
39. New York (from LAC) - Stanley Robinson (SF)
40. Indiana - Mikhail Torrance (PG/SG)
41. Miami (from NO) - Craig Brackins (PF)
42. Miami (from TOR) - Jordan Crawford (SG)
43. LA Lakers (from MEM) - Greivis Vasquez (PG/SG)
44. Portland (from CHI) - Paulao Prestes (C)
45. Minnesota (from HOU) - Nemanja Bjelica (SG/SF)
46. Phoenix (from CHA) - Brian Zoubek (C)
47. Milwaukee - Armon Johnson (PG/SG)
48. Miami - Lazar Hayward (SF)
49. San Antonio - Ryan Richards (C)
50. Dallas (from OKC) - Derrick Caracter (PF/C)
51. Oklahoma City (from POR) - Latavious Williams (SF/PF)
52. Boston - Da’Sean Butler (SF)
53. Atlanta - Omar Samhan (C)
54. LA Clippers (from DEN) - Jerome Randle (PG)
55. Utah - Alexey Shved (PG/SG)
56. Minnesota (from PHO) - Manny Harris (SG)
57. Indiana (from DAL) - Sylven Landesberg (SG)
58. LA Lakers - Dexter Pittman (C)
59. Orlando - Tiny Gallon (PF/C)
60. Phoenix (from CLE) - Charles Garcia (PF)
1st Round:
1. Washington - John Wall (PG):
The Arenas era is over; the John Wall era has now begun. This pick is a lock now per reports.
2. Philadelphia - Evan Turner (SG/SF):
This pick could be moved so Philadelphia picks up more value as Turner and Iguodala duplicate each other’s strengths and weaknesses a little too much. I believe they would be almost equally as happy with Favors or Cousins, but right now Turner is the safer bet.
3. New Jersey - Derrick Favors (PF/C):
Lopez isn’t really a brutish player down low, but he’s a very skilled offensive player who can also step out and hit a jumper. Favors is a tough-nosed player and he has the athleticism Lopez lacks. This is a spectacular fit, though the pick is rumored to be "gettable".
4. Minnesota - DeMarcus Cousins (C):
This represents a BPA pick as DeMarcus has the potential to be dominant. It is also a pick which will drastically change the franchise as Al and Cousins likely cannot coexist, but Cousins is the larger and more talented of the two. Rumors of Minnesota not liking Cousins refuted, but don't rule out a move up or down.
5. Sacramento - Wesley Johnson (SF):
This is a tough pick for the Kings, and don’t be surprised to see them move up or down. They need talent which fits next to Evans, but they would highly prefer it to be a big with defensive ability. However, as the value isn’t there, they instead go for BPA and take Johnson - even though they already have Casspi and Greene.
6. Golden State - Greg Monroe (PF/C):
The Warriors really don’t have a specific need besides being healthy and reorganizing their talent. Seeing as they already have athletes in the frontcourt, Monroe’s athletic and defensive deficiencies could be covered up and his skills could be maximized.
7. Detroit - Ed Davis (PF):
Detroit needs help just about everywhere, and as such they cannot afford passing up the potential Davis has on both ends of the floor. He’ll fill a huge hole in the Pistons rotation next year, possibly starting by year’s end. They are likely looking to move up to select Cousins.
8. LA Clippers - Paul George (SF):
The Clippers have a need at SF, but they also could use some playmaking since Gordon lacks in that area. Aminu could get a look here since he has the ability to play PF next to Griffin when they go small, but George offers a diverse skillset and his stock has skyrocketed.
9. Utah (from NY) - Cole Aldrich (C):
Gift wrapping Utah an NBA-ready defensive Center would be like an early Christmas, even if he isn’t the BPA. He doesn’t offer much upside, but it beats relying on Fesenko or Koufos to develop, while also being a decent fit with Millsap.
10. Indiana - Xavier Henry (SG/SF):
If the Pacers trade down or out of this spot as rumored, then Henry is the pick as he’s BPA and the team targeting this pick in a trade would likely be looking to draft him. However, if they keep the pick, this is a tough spot and Aminu, Udoh, or Hayward are all possibilities.
11. New Orleans - Gordon Hayward (SF):
It is rumored that Hayward has a promise somewhere above the 12th pick. This would be a reasonable spot for him if that’s the case, even though Aminu is still on the board and represents the BPA. If he can rid himself of the streakiness which plagued him this past year, this could be a very nice fit.
12. Memphis - Al-Farouq Aminu (SF/PF):
If they allow Gay to walk, then Aminu would look like an excellent fit - and even if they do not, Mayo, Gay, and Aminu could all play on the floor together and create huge mismatch problems with their athleticism and scoring ability. This is quite a fall for him, but I'm not hearing any raving reviews and I'm not a fan.
13. Toronto - Patrick Patterson (PF):
Losing Bosh is certainly going to sting, but Toronto can’t panic. Patterson - while not a quite as good defensively like the BPA Udoh - could immediately come in and be a nice fit next to Bargnani as he has a reliable post game, while also being an extremely safe choice.
14. Houston - Hassan Whiteside (PF/C):
Upside pick that Houston can afford to take, even with the red flags surrounding him. While this pick has a high possibility of being moved, a pick of Whiteside would allow him time to mature and also make him earn his minutes - possibly giving him more motivation to reach his potential.
15. Milwaukee (from CHI) - Luke Babbitt (SF/PF):
Babbitt measured out better than almost everyone expected, and it’s rumored the Bucks like him a lot. The Bucks should give Anderson a heavy look here, but the Bucks will take one of the most skilled offensive players on the board.
16. Minnesota (from CHA) - Ekpe Udoh (PF/C):
The Timberwolves really need help on the wing, and Anderson is staring them in the face. However, Udoh is BPA and he is potentially a perfect fit alongside Cousins and would work very well in an uptempo triangle variation. I think they take him and reshape their frontcourt.
17. Chicago (from MIL) - James Anderson (SG):
Rose is a dominant ball-handler with a budding jumper, and the SG next to him needs to be able to play off the ball and be great working primarily in catch-and-shoot and screen situations. Anderson brings that as well as decent playmaking and defense to the table. Great fit.
18. Miami - Avery Bradley (PG/SG):
Bradley isn’t currently ready to play PG in a traditional role, but the Heat don’t need that if they keep Wade. He can immediately step in and give them excellent defense as well as solid shooting in his limited minutes, while learning to become more of a playmaker.
19. Boston - Willie Warren (SG):
Warren has certainly fallen out of favor with the masses over the past year, but I still think he has the upside to be pretty good in the NBA. Working off more talented players, he could be a deadly sharpshooter with handles. In Boston he could replace some of Allen’s production, and give them another handler when Rondo is off the floor.
20. San Antonio - Damion James (SF):
They need toughness, length, and spot-up shooting at the SF spot since Jefferson clearly didn’t give them that. James brings those as well as quality defense, and seems like a Popovich kind of player.
21. Oklahoma City - Daniel Orton (PF/C):
I personally would dislike this pick if I were an OKC fan; however this is a mock, not my big board. Some team will reach for him early because of his size, athleticism, and thug-like nature on the court; and I think that team will be the Thunder as he is a hometown player who also fills a big need.
22. Portland - Kevin Seraphin (PF/C):
They were decimated by injuries last year, and could have Oden and Przybilla start off the year watching games in suits. Seraphin is an upside pick, but also should be able to contribute a crude, but punishing game on offense his first year; while also giving them plus production defensively and on the boards.
23. Minnesota (from UTA) - Devin Ebanks (SF/PF):
Minnesota likely moves up in the draft using this pick, but if not, I like Ebanks here. As BPA (in my opinion at least) he does not given them an immediate boost offensively at the wing like they need, but he’ll provide lockdown defense, quality rebounding, playmaking, and also possesses a nice mid-range game. They can attempt to get the offense in Free Agency.
24. Atlanta - Larry Sanders (PF/C):
The Hawks need size and defense. Sanders brings great defensive ability as well as an excellent frame, but doesn’t have the bulk they’d be looking for. However, seeing that he’s put on about 15lbs of “good” weight in the past two seasons (he only has 4.6% body fat); I think he could eventually bulk up to 240-250 and be a menace for Atlanta.
25. Memphis (from DEN) - Eric Bledsoe (PG/SG):
Conley doesn’t seem to be a guy worth considering part of their core, even though he’s a decent player. As such, they go with Bledsoe who - even if Conley is kept longterm - can play a role as a comboguard off the bench that will give them a great defender and decent shooting.
26. Oklahoma City (from PHX) - Tibor Pleiss (C):
I don’t know if they keep both picks, but I’ll pick as though they will. They already took Orton, but it’s rumored that they also like Pleiss and they could stash him for a year or two. Their roster cannot handle any more non-impact players, so taking an international prospect makes sense.
27. New Jersey (from DAL) - Quincy Pondexter (SF):
The Nets should use this pick to guess at the type of role player a star FA would want to surround him. You can never have enough role players who are very athletic and have the ability to guard three positions, while also able to create for themselves - so Pondexter is the pick here.
28. Memphis (from LAL) - Elliot Williams (SG):
I cannot see Memphis taking three rookies this year, so I would assume they will trade up or out of one of their later picks. However, if they do keep all three, I think they’ll go with Elliot Williams who grew up in Tennessee, played at Memphis, and is a pretty good athlete that can be a scorer/slasher off the bench.
29. Orlando - Darington Hobson (SG/SF):
Hobson is rumored to have a 1st round promise. As someone who is adept at handling the ball, shooting it from deep, and also possesses decent athleticism - it makes sense. While he doesn’t have the star potential on the wing which they seemed to need in the playoffs, he can fill a void off the bench and then eventually earn a starting spot and allow Nelson to work off him at times.
30. Washington (from CLE) - Solomon Alabi (C):
Could he slip all the way to the last pick in the 1st round? It’s possible, especially when a lot of teams don’t necessarily need a C at the end of the 1st in this mock. He gives the Wizards a legit C with good defense and budding skills, as well as a high character guy. I don’t know if he’ll ever be a big-minute player, but this is good value.
2nd Round:
31. New Jersey - Artsiom Parakhouski (C)
32. Oklahoma City (from MIN) - Terrico White (SG)
33. Sacramento - Jerome Jordan (C)
34. Golden State - Dominique Jones (SG)
35. Washington - Gani Lawal (PF)
36. Detroit - Jarvis Varnado (PF)
37. Milwaukee (from PHI) - Trevor Booker (PF)
38. New York - Lance Stephenson (SG/SF)
39. New York (from LAC) - Stanley Robinson (SF)
40. Indiana - Mikhail Torrance (PG/SG)
41. Miami (from NO) - Craig Brackins (PF)
42. Miami (from TOR) - Jordan Crawford (SG)
43. LA Lakers (from MEM) - Greivis Vasquez (PG/SG)
44. Portland (from CHI) - Paulao Prestes (C)
45. Minnesota (from HOU) - Nemanja Bjelica (SG/SF)
46. Phoenix (from CHA) - Brian Zoubek (C)
47. Milwaukee - Armon Johnson (PG/SG)
48. Miami - Lazar Hayward (SF)
49. San Antonio - Ryan Richards (C)
50. Dallas (from OKC) - Derrick Caracter (PF/C)
51. Oklahoma City (from POR) - Latavious Williams (SF/PF)
52. Boston - Da’Sean Butler (SF)
53. Atlanta - Omar Samhan (C)
54. LA Clippers (from DEN) - Jerome Randle (PG)
55. Utah - Alexey Shved (PG/SG)
56. Minnesota (from PHO) - Manny Harris (SG)
57. Indiana (from DAL) - Sylven Landesberg (SG)
58. LA Lakers - Dexter Pittman (C)
59. Orlando - Tiny Gallon (PF/C)
60. Phoenix (from CLE) - Charles Garcia (PF)
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Too bad Twolves aren't passing on Wes Johnson.
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Actually, I like what he did with the MN picks. Kahn and Co choose who they deem is the BPA regardless of fit at this point since the team make up is far from decided. Alot of people have Cousins as the 4th bpa overall and the pick fits standard operating procedure. Now the pick may very well be traded and other players may very well be traded, but the pick makes sense.
Also, if Udoh falls to 16, can see him being picked there as well for all the reasons previously stated. The value is pretty good there. Same with at 23, though even with a trade possible, it would probably be best wing available.
Even like MN second round, could see them both being Euro-stashes, but solid job overall.
Also, if Udoh falls to 16, can see him being picked there as well for all the reasons previously stated. The value is pretty good there. Same with at 23, though even with a trade possible, it would probably be best wing available.
Even like MN second round, could see them both being Euro-stashes, but solid job overall.
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Exactly what kind of potential do you think Ed Davis has on the offensive side of the ball? IMO there's not much there, except as a garbage guy. Defensively I think he's going to be best as a weak-side defender, but we need a guy who can defend the post. Bad fit for the Pistons IMO.
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coordinator0 wrote:Exactly what kind of potential do you think Ed Davis has on the offensive side of the ball? IMO there's not much there, except as a garbage guy. Defensively I think he's going to be best as a weak-side defender, but we need a guy who can defend the post. Bad fit for the Pistons IMO.
I think he will eventually add a somewhat reliable 15-18 foot jumper like most PFs get, probably between his 1st and 2nd or 2nd and 3rd year - but yes, next year he will mainly be an interior scorer that relies on his good footwork, quick feet, and excellent touch around the rim to be adequate in the post. Defensively he should be able to guard just about every PF well, and eventually the PF/C's masquerading as Cs - plus adding the weakside defense.
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Honestly I don't see Davis being much of a factor in the post on either end of the court. He's just not strong enough in the lower body to be effective there. Eventually he might be able to get there, but Dumars recently said he wants a player at seven who is going to immediately contribute next season. Davis doesn't fit that profile at all. There's just too much projection involved with Davis when it comes to him and the Pistons IMO.