The PG position is so horrible

robertjanssen007 · Post #1 » by **robertjanssen007** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:53 am

I'm sorry but I hear all the time how the C position is so weak, I'd beg that the PG position with fantasy ball is even worse. At least you got star PFs who can play C, with PGs there are only PGs. When Raymond Felton was 7th in the league in assists per game and Anthony Grandpa Carter was 14th last year for PGs, you know you have a problem.

The elite PGs are amazing but once you get passed them, it has to be the shallowest position in fantasy basketball.

hoop_head · Post #2 » by **hoop_head** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:58 pm

It is, and my thinking is like yours. If you don't grab an elite PG early, it's very difficult to make up for that later in the draft.

You can make a point of drafting swingmen with better-than-average assist totals in rounds 3-5 to make up for missing on an elite PG, say if you drafted a C & PF with picks 1 & 2. But that's poor strategy.

Should we be discussing this? lol

Pedro Pistolas · Post #3 » by **Pedro Pistolas** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:27 pm

I think i might ditch assists. In that , i'm not going to pay for the likes of Deron Williams, Steve Nash. I'm going to take a guy like Josh Smith over those guys...
It's funny that the best teams that i've had are the ones that I basically ditch assists and go for guys that get met the 3's, steals, blocks ,rebounds

Death Knight · Post #4 » by **Death Knight** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:56 pm

Chris Paul
Steve Nash
Deron Williams
Baron Davis
Jose Calderon
Chauncey Billups
Jason Kidd
Andre Miller
Devin Harris

I am including Dre in here, because he belongs....very solid pg. So underrated in both reality and fantasy wise. Devin Harris is going to be good this season as well. Not only is there no competition for him at the point, but he is easily the second option on the Nets. Maybe 1st if Vince Carter is not going to be motivated enough this season as they are looking to go nowhere.

Then there is a drop off.

hoop_head · Post #5 » by **hoop_head** » Wed Oct 1, 2008 12:23 am

Chris Paul is such a complete PG, he's really making the most of his talent.

DNYLkiller · Post #6 » by **DNYLkiller** » Wed Oct 1, 2008 5:39 am

I call Allen Iverson a top tier PG. 27 pts, 7 assts, 2 stls, 1 3, good free throw. easily a top 5 PG.

bodiroga#8 · Post #7 » by **bodiroga#8** » Wed Oct 1, 2008 1:54 pm

Death Knight wrote:Chris Paul
Steve Nash
Deron Williams
Baron Davis
Jose Calderon
Chauncey Billups
Jason Kidd
Andre Miller
Devin Harris

I am including Dre in here, because he belongs....very solid pg. So underrated in both reality and fantasy wise. Devin Harris is going to be good this season as well. Not only is there no competition for him at the point, but he is easily the second option on the Nets. Maybe 1st if Vince Carter is not going to be motivated enough this season as they are looking to go nowhere.

Then there is a drop off.

arenas, wade and allen iverson ares eligible pg no? monta ellis when healthy?

i get your point but your list needs to be expanded, where is brandon roy, he was pg eligible last year, a few "sleepers" exist also, sessions, duhon and maybe even foye coming off that injury

also mid rounds you can always get guys like tony parker, mo williams to compliment earlier picks

when looking by comparison the one and the five, i dont think its much of a contest where there is less talent

Death Knight · Post #8 » by **Death Knight** » Wed Oct 1, 2008 8:10 pm

I look at AI and Wade as shooting guards and that's how I draft them, as my SGs. They may have both pg and sg eligibility, but they can only play one position at a time. They aren't going to be listed twice in your line up so that you can play them at pg and sg at the same time. And if you do draft them as your primary pg, then that takes away from the depth at the sg spot.

I would draft Arenas as my pg, but he will probably drop lower in the draft due to injury...and then even when he comes back, I am still wary of him getting injured again. He signed his big contract already, so who knows if he might take his sweet little time to come back. No rush at all right?

Monta Ellis.............well the fact is, he is not healthy, so we will have to deal with that. Thus, he doesn't belong in this conversation for this season.

Guys like Tony Parker and Mo Williams are shoot first pgs that shouldn't be counted on to be your primary pg. I expect Mo Williams' assists numbers to drop just for the simple fact that Lebron will dominate the ball as usual and create his own shots rather than finishing from a pass and allowing his teammates to pick up the assist instead. I know he didn't have a good supporting cast and thus he had to create a lot for himself in the past. But I don't think Mo Williams will change much of that. Most of Lebron's points will go unassisted. However, Mo Williams might still be able to keep his scoring up because people will double and triple team Lebron. This is just my strong thoughts and opinions on the situation.

Post #9 » by **Young_Star11** » Wed Oct 1, 2008 10:35 pm

Arenas is only PG-eligible, so he has to be considered a PG.

Wade and AI are PG-SG, and I, like you, draft him with the purpose of primarily using him as a 2.

sabonis · Post #10 » by **sabonis** » Wed Oct 1, 2008 10:35 pm

well here's a quick brainstorming and calculation:

average stats for a 12*13 league:
43.5 apg, 9 bpg, 76 rpg, 13.5 steals and 11.5 3ptm, 198 ppg

now how you can dominate those categories are as follows:
50 apg, 12 bpg, 84 rpg, 15.5 steals, 15.5 3ptm, 215 points are enough to dominate those categories

when we divide those to the 13 players you got on your team, we get 1.19 steals, 1.19 3ptm, 0.92 blocks, 6.46 rebounds, 3.85 assists and 16.5 points per player...

I got the top 200 players from BBM and worked out how many players are above those stats:

47 players above the average of 1.19 steals per game
76 players above the average of 1.19 3ptm per game
42 players above the average of 0.92 blocks per game
53 players above the average of 6.46 rebounds per game
52 players above the average of 3.85 assist per game
and 59 players above the average of 16.5 points per game

so scarcity follows as: blocks > steals > assists = rebounds > points > 3ptm

robertjanssen007 · Post #11 » by **robertjanssen007** » Thu Oct 2, 2008 8:21 am

ssaboniss wrote:well here's a quick brainstorming and calculation:

average stats for a 12*13 league:
43.5 apg, 9 bpg, 76 rpg, 13.5 steals and 11.5 3ptm, 198 ppg

now how you can dominate those categories are as follows:
50 apg, 12 bpg, 84 rpg, 15.5 steals, 15.5 3ptm, 215 points are enough to dominate those categories

when we divide those to the 13 players you got on your team, we get 1.19 steals, 1.19 3ptm, 0.92 blocks, 6.46 rebounds, 3.85 assists and 16.5 points per player...

I got the top 200 players from BBM and worked out how many players are above those stats:

47 players above the average of 1.19 steals per game
76 players above the average of 1.19 3ptm per game
42 players above the average of 0.92 blocks per game
53 players above the average of 6.46 rebounds per game
52 players above the average of 3.85 assist per game
and 59 players above the average of 16.5 points per game

so scarcity follows as: blocks > steals > assists = rebounds > points > 3ptm

this is a great post.

Post #12 » by **Curtis Lemansky** » Sat Oct 4, 2008 11:48 am

It is not that the pg position is horrible.It is just the fact that assists have become easily the rarest category to fill.and steals coming as a close second(only 19 players averaged 1,5+ spg ),point guards become easily the hottest commodity in drafts.

IMO rarity goes like this:
Assists/steals/blocks/three's/rebounds/points

Only 13 players have averaged more than 7 apg last year.(including dre,billups and wade at 6,9 apg)And some of them comes really with a lot of disadvantages(Tinsley;Kidd;Felton with fg%;Miller with no 3's).As far as I'm concerned,as long as I dont get a top-10 apg guy(Calderon;CP;DERON;Nash;Kidd;Iverson,Davis,Wade;Bron;Billups);you are done with the assists or you have to put a lot of emphasis on getting apg from other positions(Kirilenko/JJ/HEDO/VC/Iggy) to make up the lack of assists.Let me also remind you that all of these top-9 apg players are top-20 players(except Calderon and Kidd) so you either draft a pg in top-20 or you are highly risking to be competitive in apg(unless you can snag Kidd or Calderon in 2nd/3rd round round).So if I cannot get one of the top-10 apg guys in one of the first 2 rounds,I'd rather punt assists and build my team around the other 8 cats(players like barbosa/terry would be great fit for this strategy)

tkunit · Post #13 » by **tkunit** » Sat Oct 4, 2008 3:34 pm

C is still the weakest spot in fantasy ball. There are plenty of second or third tier pg's who will get you assists. I'm talking players like earl watson, plus you can get other guards like RIP who get 3+ assists a game. Now it is clearly nice when you land one of the toip few pg's but as a whole assists and the pg spot are a pretty easy fill.

Centers are still limited, and they become even worse because of how many of them shoot such a poor ft%.

Post #14 » by **pillwenney** » Sat Oct 4, 2008 7:47 pm

Really great PGs are hard to come by, but in most leagues there are always going to be at least a couple ~5APG type PGs that you can pick up if you need.

Death Knight · Post #15 » by **Death Knight** » Sat Oct 4, 2008 9:55 pm

tkunit wrote:C is still the weakest spot in fantasy ball. There are plenty of second or third tier pg's who will get you assists. I'm talking players like earl watson, plus you can get other guards like RIP who get 3+ assists a game. Now it is clearly nice when you land one of the toip few pg's but as a whole assists and the pg spot are a pretty easy fill.

Centers are still limited, and they become even worse because of how many of them shoot such a poor ft%.

Most of them don't shoot enough free throws to really hurt you. Biedrins, Tyson Chandler, etc...

Aside from Dwight Howard, I think you can still be relatively competitive in ft% picking up other centers IF you draft properly.