Rookie scale contracts

[Village Idiot]

If a player was drafted when the first three years of a contract was guaranteed but doesn't sign until this summer when only the first two years are guaranteed, which terms will apply?

[Three34]

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q42

[daddyfivestar]

Question on Rookie scale Cap holds:
When does the hold go into effect? Is it draft day, once a player is selected, or start of new $ year (like July 1)?
For instance, Memphis is 4.4 under the cap going into draft day, but not so if the hold of 3.5 mil is placed on their #2 pick and another .85 on their other 1st. They really have nothing July under this scenario...

And does the hold go with the pick if it is traded, ie if Minnesota drafts a player (say Derozan) but trades his rights to another team on June 28, is the 2.8 or so hold part of the $ transaction to see if the trade works for another team over the cap?

Thanks in advance.

[LarryCoon]

It goes into effect the second the player is drafted. And yes, the hold goes with the pick -- it counts against the cap of whatever team holds his draft rights. It DOES have to be factored into the calculation, because it causes the other team's cap to go up.

[daddyfivestar]

Thanks ^ for the knowledge

[FGump]

...is the 2.8 or so hold part of the $ transaction to see if the trade works for another team over the cap?

Larry whiffed on answering this part of your question, probably mis-read it. The answer to the above is "No."

To elaborate, in a trade, a draft pick or an unsigned draftee are ignored in the trade-matching calculations required for an over the cap team adding players via trade. So if team X makes a trade for Joe Unsigned Draftee, the incoming "salary" for over-the-cap matching on JUD is considered to be $0.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q43
"...the trade value of an unsigned first or second round draft pick is always $0."

Also http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q71

[LarryCoon]

D'oh -- whiffed on it. Trade calculations consider only Player Contracts, of course, and unsigned draft picks don't have player contracts. Mea culpa.

[casey]

But what about a team that is hovering around the cap. So let's say a team is $2Mil under the cap. They want to trade a future draft pick for a $1.5Mil player and the player taken with the 20th pick ($1.1Mil cap hold). That would put them over the cap, so I would think it wouldn't be allowed. But if you look at it as two separate trades, one for the $1.5Mil player and one for the rookie, then it seems like it would be ok. They would use their cap space to take on the $1.5Mil player in the first trade. They would be over the cap with the second trade because of the cap hold, but there's $0 coming in and $0 going out, so that should work too. Anybody able to clarify this?

[LarryCoon]

Let's clarify the assigned player exception. It breaks down into three subsections:

1. Teams may acquire player contracts whose post-trade salaries are no more than a given percentage (125% in a simultaneous trade, 100% in a non-simultaneous trade) above the pre-trade salaries of the players they trade away. [As clarified above, this counts player contracts only; it doesn't count other cap hits like rookie scale salaries.]

2. A team with cap room may make trades that add player contracts up to their cap room plus $100K. [This also refers to player contracts only.]

3. A team under the cap may use the first rule above in lieu of the second rule above, if it works to their advantage.

Combine that with the basic rule that a team may not be over the cap unless using an exception, and you have enough to parse your scenario (assuming I'm interpreting what you're saying correctly). I assume you mean that the team has $2M in cap room (i.e., exceptions added to salaries are still under the cap).

In your one-trade scenario, per rule 2 they may make a trade that adds $2.1M in player salaries. Since your one-trade scenario contains only $1.5M in player salaries, this trade is allowed. The correct interpretation of rule 2 is vital here -- it doesn't say a team under the cap can't go over by more than $100K, it says the team can't acquire more than Room+$100K in salaries.

Your two-trade scenario is also correct as you analyzed.

[casey]

Alright, I think I understand that.

I have another scenario though. Let's say again the team is $2Mil under the cap. And in this case they want to trade the 1st pick in the draft for a $2.5Mil player and the 30th pick in the draft. Would this not be allowed then? Because they should only be allowed to take in $2.1Mil, yet they would be taking in $2.5Mil. However, after the trade they would still be under the cap. Or could it then be looked at two separate trades, and it would work?

[LarryCoon]

Probably as two separate trades. If they swap draft picks first, then they gain more Room. As long as they gain an additional $400K or more, they can then trade for the $2.5M player.

[highlite15]

When a team trades for a draft choice for only cash (up to $3M) does that cash paid to acquire the pick count against the teams cap number? Or does only the rookie scale salary count against the cap? Both?

[killbuckner]

No- cash included in a deal does not count against the cap or for salary matching in trades under any circumstances.