Rubio's status in 3 years

Post #1 » by **AshyLarrysDiaper** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:09 pm

Say Rubio waits until 2012-13 to come over. He'll be able to sign a long-term contract with Minnesota, at that point, but couldn't he also choose to sign 1-year QO, and become an RFA the following summer? How likely is he to do that? Obviously, it's a safer bet to take the big money before committing to come to coming over, but the QO option allows him to sign an offer sheet with anyone he wants, and at worst force MN's hand in a sign and trade.

Do I have this right?

Post #2 » by **Three34** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:25 pm

No. There is no QO option. In three years time, he either signs for the rookie scale contract, or signs a different deal for a minimum of three years.

Post #3 » by **Three34** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:27 pm

On the subject, having checked the FAQ, I did find this:

After three years they have the option of either using the salary scale or signing him like he was a free agent -- using their cap room, the Mid-Level exception, the Bi-Annual exception or the Disabled Player exception, and with standard raises. They can only do the latter if the player did not play intercollegiately in the interim, and such a contract must be for at least three seasons.

Can't sign a three year contract with the BAE, so a slight typo in there.

Dunkenstein · Post #4 » by **Dunkenstein** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:33 pm

AshyLarrysDiaper wrote:Say Rubio waits until 2012-13 to come over. He'll be able to sign a long-term contract with Minnesota, at that point, but couldn't he also choose to sign 1-year QO, and become an RFA the following summer? How likely is he to do that? Obviously, it's a safer bet to take the big money before committing to come to coming over, but the QO option allows him to sign an offer sheet with anyone he wants, and at worst force MN's hand in a sign and trade.

Do I have this right?

First of all, in three years there will be a new CBA, so there's no guarantee that that any of the current rules will still be in place. But to answer your question, we'll assume the relevant rules will be the same.

The crucial rule is that a player not signed to a Rookie Scale Contract cannot become unrestricted until he has completed three years of service in the NBA, as long as his team continues to tender him QOs. So there would be no benefit in Rubio signing a one-year contract.

FGump · Post #5 » by **FGump** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:19 pm

It's also important to note that waiting doesn't guarantee Rubio anything extra. By this rule, Minnesota will still have exclusive negotiating rights, and will still be able to retain his rights on an ongoing basis, if that's what they wish to do, by merely offering a 2 yr scale salary contract for as little as 80% of scale. And just as important, as Dunk notes, in 3 yrs there will be a new CBA, so there's no guarantee that the current rules or scale won't be replaced with some even less desirable to a rookie.

Dunkenstein · Post #6 » by **Dunkenstein** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:27 pm

FGump wrote:It's also important to note that waiting doesn't guarantee Rubio anything extra.

But by waiting three years, it frees Rubio from the economic confines of the Rookie Scale Contract which allows him to sign for cap room or the MLE (assuming there is no change in the rule) . This makes it easier for him to pay off his $1M Euro Buyout.

Post #7 » by **AshyLarrysDiaper** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:38 pm

Dunkenstein wrote:The crucial rule is that a player not signed to a Rookie Scale Contract cannot become unrestricted until he has completed three years of service in the NBA, as long as his team continues to tender him QOs.

I take it that he also can't become an RFA until the three years is up?

Dunkenstein · Post #8 » by **Dunkenstein** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:48 pm

AshyLarrysDiaper wrote:
Dunkenstein wrote:The crucial rule is that a player not signed to a Rookie Scale Contract cannot become unrestricted until he has completed three years of service in the NBA, as long as his team continues to tender him QOs.

I take it that he also can't become an RFA until the three years is up?

If he initially signs a contract (that is not a Rookie Scale Contract) for less than three years, he will become an RFA until he completes three years of service.

Post #9 » by **Three34** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:29 pm

He can't initially sign a non-scale contract for less than three years. Three years is the minimum. And any non-scale contract that he signs has to be in excess of what the scale contract were to pay.

Post #10 » by **AshyLarrysDiaper** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:15 am

So the only way that another NBA team can acquire Rubio during his first 3 seasons in the league is if Minnesota trades him?

Post #11 » by **Three34** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:26 am

Unless they renounce him, which they won't, then yes.

answerthink · Post #12 » by **answerthink** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:07 am

in case it is helpful, attached is the actual language from the current cba... which confirms what everyone has said:

"...a First Round Pick who does not sign with the Team that holds his draft rights for any portion of the three (3) Seasons following the NBA Draft in which he was selected (and who did not play intercollegiate basketball during such period) may enter into either (a) a Rookie Scale Contract... or (b) if the Team has Room in excess of the applicable first-year Rookie Scale Amount, a Contract covering no fewer than three (3) Seasons that provides for Salary plus Unlikely Bonuses in the first... year up to the amount of the Team’s Room..."

FGump · Post #13 » by **FGump** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:50 am

Dunkenstein wrote:
FGump wrote:It's also important to note that waiting doesn't guarantee Rubio anything extra.

But by waiting three years, it frees Rubio from the economic confines of the Rookie Scale Contract which allows him to sign for cap room or the MLE (assuming there is no change in the rule) . This makes it easier for him to pay off his $1M Euro Buyout.

Heck, if there was a $1M buyout (only) right now, it wouldn't be an issue. He'd be in Minnesota. Its that $6M or more whopper that's the issue.

But more than that, you're supposing them waiting to have the ability to resolve a problem that isn't a problem - because, by all reports, there is NO buyout to pay off in 3 years.

So as I said, if he waits 3 years, besides falling into the whims of a new CBA and wherever it may lead, at that point Minny can still stay within the lines of the Salary Scale. He wont be a FA soliciting bids around the NBA - if he wants to play with the best, he'll most likely enter via the same entry grid as everyone else.

Post #14 » by **AshyLarrysDiaper** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:20 pm

If in 3 years, he signs a 3-year contract with MN, will he automatically become an UFA once that contract ends (assuming he doesn't sign an extension with MN prior to the contract's conclusion)?

answerthink · Post #15 » by **answerthink** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:28 am

Below is a summary of what I believe the options for Rubio are, which anybody is free to update. If Rubio returns to the NBA in three years time, there are two likely scenarios:

1. He signs a rookie scale contract with Minnesota (or whomever else his rights are traded to). Such a contract would be for two guaranteed seasons and then two team option seasons. In the unlikely event the team options are not picked up following the second or third seasons, he would become an unrestricted free agent. If both are picked up, he would become a restricted free agent following the fourth season if a qualifying offer were properly extended (seven seasons from now).

2. He signs a contract of between 3 and 5 years in length with Minnesota (or whomever else his rights are traded to), with a first year salary greater than the rookie scale amount. This option is only available if Minnesota has the necessary cap space (or exceptions) to offer him a contract greater than the rookie scale amount, and he can be signed for up to the amount of the cap space (or exception) available. Annual raises would be limited to 8%. He would become a restricted free agent following the third season of a 3 year contract if a qualifying offer were properly extended (six seasons from now). If the contract he signs were to be for more than 3 years in length, he would become an unrestricted free agent thereafter.

Which option is chosen is a function of how much cap space is available and individual negotiation. If the two sides cannot come to an agreement on a contract, Rubio’s options would be limited. His primary options would be to (i) continue to play abroad or (ii) sit out one full season after his overseas contract ends, after which time he would be eligible to re-enter the draft. He would not be able to solicit interest from other teams.

If he returns to the NBA in less than three years time, only option 1 would be available.

This all assumes that Minnesota retains his rights during the years he plays abroad by submitting the appropriate required tenders (which I imagine they will) and that the rules of the new CBA do not change in regards to this matter.

Dunkenstein · Post #16 » by **Dunkenstein** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:08 am

FGump wrote:
Dunkenstein wrote:
FGump wrote:It's also important to note that waiting doesn't guarantee Rubio anything extra.

But by waiting three years, it frees Rubio from the economic confines of the Rookie Scale Contract which allows him to sign for cap room or the MLE (assuming there is no change in the rule) . This makes it easier for him to pay off his $1M Euro Buyout.

Heck, if there was a $1M buyout (only) right now, it wouldn't be an issue. He'd be in Minnesota. Its that $6M or more whopper that's the issue.

But more than that, you're supposing them waiting to have the ability to resolve a problem that isn't a problem - because, by all reports, there is NO buyout to pay off in 3 years.

So as I said, if he waits 3 years, besides falling into the whims of a new CBA and wherever it may lead, at that point Minny can still stay within the lines of the Salary Scale. He wont be a FA soliciting bids around the NBA - if he wants to play with the best, he'll most likely enter via the same entry grid as everyone else.

Chris Sheridan reported on ESPN.com that Rubio's new contract with Barcelona contains a one million euro buyout in both the summers of 2011 and 2012.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/s ... bio-090902

chakdaddy · Post #17 » by **chakdaddy** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:38 pm

Dunkenstein wrote:Chris Sheridan reported on ESPN.com that Rubio's new contract with Barcelona contains a one million euro buyout in both the summers of 2011 and 2012.

So presumably Barcelona paid the buyout from his previous team? That's a pretty clever move; the NBA team can't pay the whole buyout, so negotioate a new contract with a team that can pay the buy out, and make sure the buyout on this contract is smaller.