Why can't blazers get d-miles off cap again?

emus
Ballboy
Posts: 49
And1: 0
Joined: Jun 29, 2007

Why can't blazers get d-miles off cap again? 

Post#1 » by emus » Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:00 am

I know this was a hot topic and I don't want to turn it into one again, so I hope I get responses on the CBA rules only plz. I would appreciate if Mr. Coon could comment on this but if not then maybe someone else can answer. For reference here is the Long term injuries section of the CBA:

CBA wrote:(h) Long-Term Injuries. Any player who suffers a career-ending injury or illness, and whose contract is terminated by the Team in accordance with the NBA waiver procedure, will be excluded from his Team’s Team Salary as follows:

(1) Beginning on the first anniversary of the injury or illness, the Team may apply to the NBA to have the player’s Salary for each remaining Salary Cap Year covered by the Contract excluded from Team Salary.

(2)The determination of whether a player has suffered a career-ending injury or illness shall be made by a physician selected jointly by the NBA and the Players Association.

(3)Notwithstanding Section 4(h)(1) and (2) above, the career-ending injury or illness of a player who plays in more than ten (10) games in any Season shall not be deemed to have occurred prior to the last game in which the player played in such Season.

(4)Notwithstanding Section 4(h)(1) and (2) above, if after a player’s Salary is excluded from Team Salary in accordance with this Section 4(h), the player plays in ten (10) NBA games in any Season, the excluded Salary for the Salary Cap Year covering such Season and each subsequent Salary Cap Year shall thereupon be included in Team Salary (and if the tenth game played is a playoff game, then the excluded Salary shall be included in Salary retroactively as of the start of the Team’s last Regular Season game). After a player’s Salary for one (1) or more Salary Cap Years has been included in Team Salary in accordance with this Section 4(h)(4), the player’s Team shall be permitted at the appropriate time to re-apply to have the player’s Salary (for each Salary Cap Year remaining at the time of the re-application) excluded from Team Salary in accordance with the rules set forth in this Section 4(h).

(5)If a Team applies to have a player’s Salary excluded from its Team Salary pursuant to this Section 4(h), the player shall cooperate in the processing of the application, including by appearing at the reasonably scheduled place and time for examination by the jointly-selected physician.

(6)Only the Team with which the player was under Contract at the time his career-ending injury or illness became known or reasonably should have become known shall be permitted to apply to have the player’s Salary excluded from Team Salary pursuant to this Section 4(h).


First notice that section 4 states that:

CBA wrote:"the player’s Team shall be permitted at the appropriate time to re-apply to have the player’s Salary (for each Salary Cap Year remaining at the time of the re-application) excluded from Team Salary in accordance with the rules set forth in this Section 4(h)"


Whats the appropriate time?

Section (1) says:

CBA wrote:"Beginning on the first anniversary of the injury or illness, the Team may apply to the NBA to have the player’s Salary for each remaining Salary Cap Year covered by the Contract excluded from Team Salary."


OK so D-Miles last played on 4/13/09 and section 3 says that:

CBA wrote:"Notwithstanding Section 4(h)(1) and (2) above, the career-ending injury or illness of a player who plays in more than ten (10) games in any Season shall not be deemed to have occurred prior to the last game in which the player played in such Season."


So did D-Miles suffer a career ending injury on 4/13/09 or......
CBA wrote:(6)Only the Team with which the player was under Contract at the time his career-ending injury or illness became known or reasonably should have become known shall be permitted to apply to have the player’s Salary excluded from Team Salary pursuant to this Section 4(h).


Since the blazers are at the cap, could the not go 9 mil below it for the draft??
Three34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 36,406
And1: 123
Joined: Sep 18, 2002

Re: Why can't blazers get d-miles off cap again? 

Post#2 » by Three34 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:34 am

Oh good. This again.

The answers you seek can all be found here, but, as a Cliff Notes version:

1) When Miles got injured 14 years ago or whenever it was, the doctors determined (presumptuously, as is the only way they can do it) that it would be a career ending injury.

2) It wasn't, because Miles came back and played.

A lot of people have tried to make it more complicated than that, but it isn't. The Blazers got cap relief by the letter of the law, but Miles returned, and so they got it taken away again by the letter of the law.
Three34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 36,406
And1: 123
Joined: Sep 18, 2002

Re: Why can't blazers get d-miles off cap again? 

Post#3 » by Three34 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:35 am

Also, Miles didn't get injured on April 13th. It's just that no one wanted him any more because he's a marginal talent and a bit of a dick.
FGump
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,050
And1: 0
Joined: Aug 14, 2004

Re: Why can't blazers get d-miles off cap again? 

Post#4 » by FGump » Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:43 am

1 The rule says this is how you apply to "have the player’s Salary (for each Salary Cap Year remaining at the time of the re-application) excluded from Team Salary."

At the present time, is there a "remaining Salary Cap year" on his contract, for his salary to be excluded from?

2 As Sham notes, did he get injured? Last we saw, he was playing but wasn't playing well enough for anyone to sign him. "He sucks" is not a qualifier for the application of this rule.
Dunkenstein
Starter
Posts: 2,454
And1: 13
Joined: Jun 17, 2002
Location: Santa Monica, CA

Re: Why can't blazers get d-miles off cap again? 

Post#5 » by Dunkenstein » Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:34 pm

FGump wrote: "He sucks" is not a qualifier for the application of this rule.

If only it was. The Knicks could rid themselves of Eddy Curry. The Lakers wouldn't have had to pay Adam Morrison this year. Nor would Chicago still have to pay Jerome James who is still on their cap even though they waived him. And the list goes on.

Actually wasn't the Amnesty Waiver in 2005 really just a version of the "He sucks" rule. Maybe they'll put that in the next CBA again. Unfortunately it will be too late for all those Blazer fans who can't seem to get over the inequity of nearly destitute Paul Allen having to spend $9M of his hard earned money on Miles one last year.
daddyfivestar
Banned User
Posts: 5,215
And1: 0
Joined: Jun 19, 2004
Location: Get to 17 while they are still on 17

Re: Why can't blazers get d-miles off cap again? 

Post#6 » by daddyfivestar » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:18 pm

Actually the simplified-est version is .......

The Grizzlies f*#>ed them.
Three34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 36,406
And1: 123
Joined: Sep 18, 2002

Re: Why can't blazers get d-miles off cap again? 

Post#7 » by Three34 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:50 pm

Grizzlies did nothing wrong.
daddyfivestar
Banned User
Posts: 5,215
And1: 0
Joined: Jun 19, 2004
Location: Get to 17 while they are still on 17

Re: Why can't blazers get d-miles off cap again? 

Post#8 » by daddyfivestar » Tue May 4, 2010 8:05 pm

Never said it was wrong. Just a good ole reaming. Quite entertaining watching Pritchard squeel.
Village Idiot
General Manager
Posts: 9,547
And1: 2,249
Joined: Jan 23, 2005
Location: Madrid, Spain
   

Re: Why can't blazers get d-miles off cap again? 

Post#9 » by Village Idiot » Thu May 6, 2010 12:15 pm

Sham wrote:Grizzlies did nothing wrong.

Has anyone calculated how much Memphis made out of the deal?

Didn't the luxury tax money from Portland more than cover what they paid Miles in salary?
"There are no right answers to wrong questions." - Ursula K. Le Guin
Dunkenstein
Starter
Posts: 2,454
And1: 13
Joined: Jun 17, 2002
Location: Santa Monica, CA

Re: Why can't blazers get d-miles off cap again? 

Post#10 » by Dunkenstein » Thu May 6, 2010 6:26 pm

Village Idiot wrote:
Sham wrote:Grizzlies did nothing wrong.

Has anyone calculated how much Memphis made out of the deal?

Didn't the luxury tax money from Portland more than cover what they paid Miles in salary?

Have any of you "idiots" from Portland (you're the one calling himself an idiot, so don't accuse me of name-calling) considered the possibility that Memphis may actually have wanted to see if Miles could still play, and was not signing him just to screw Portland? In the same way that Washington signed Livingston and NY signed Bender.
daddyfivestar
Banned User
Posts: 5,215
And1: 0
Joined: Jun 19, 2004
Location: Get to 17 while they are still on 17

Re: Why can't blazers get d-miles off cap again? 

Post#11 » by daddyfivestar » Thu May 6, 2010 9:35 pm

Didn't Pritchard publicly ask (threaten) teams not to pick up Miles, so that their summer '09 spend could be max level huge?
Village Idiot
General Manager
Posts: 9,547
And1: 2,249
Joined: Jan 23, 2005
Location: Madrid, Spain
   

Re: Why can't blazers get d-miles off cap again? 

Post#12 » by Village Idiot » Fri May 7, 2010 10:43 am

Dunkenstein wrote:
Village Idiot wrote:
Sham wrote:Grizzlies did nothing wrong.

Has anyone calculated how much Memphis made out of the deal?

Didn't the luxury tax money from Portland more than cover what they paid Miles in salary?

Have any of you "idiots" from Portland (you're the one calling himself an idiot, so don't accuse me of name-calling) considered the possibility that Memphis may actually have wanted to see if Miles could still play, and was not signing him just to screw Portland? In the same way that Washington signed Livingston and NY signed Bender.
I'm not making a value judgement as to what Memphis' intentions were. I was merely asking a question looking for a factual answer to a financial question.
"There are no right answers to wrong questions." - Ursula K. Le Guin
answerthink
Junior
Posts: 325
And1: 10
Joined: Aug 12, 2009
Contact:

Re: Why can't blazers get d-miles off cap again? 

Post#13 » by answerthink » Fri May 7, 2010 8:52 pm

The math:
$704,752 - What Memphis paid in salary to Miles last season (according to Bender)
$196,645 - What Memphis made from Portland's tax payment
$508,107 - Net cost to Memphis
Village Idiot
General Manager
Posts: 9,547
And1: 2,249
Joined: Jan 23, 2005
Location: Madrid, Spain
   

Re: Why can't blazers get d-miles off cap again? 

Post#14 » by Village Idiot » Sat May 8, 2010 9:17 am

Great. Thanks. That confirms that it wasn't money that motivated the Miles signing.
"There are no right answers to wrong questions." - Ursula K. Le Guin
User avatar
d-train
RealGM
Posts: 21,227
And1: 1,098
Joined: Mar 26, 2001
   

Re: Why can't blazers get d-miles off cap again? 

Post#15 » by d-train » Mon May 17, 2010 8:01 pm

The Blazers can reapply for cap relief based on the career ending injury to Miles and probably will but the benefits of the relief are not that much anymore. Insurance has paid Miles salary for years and the only way the Blazers could benefit from Miles career ending injury now is if Miles salary should put the Blazers salary over the luxury tax threshold. The cap relief would partially or fully save the Blazers from luxury taxes. And, if the Blazers reapplied it would be doubtful that another team would do what the Grizzlies did because doing so would not harm a competitor’s ability to compete, which is why the Grizzlies did what they did.

Edit: There is no benefit to the Blazers by applying for cap relief so they probably won't.
Image
User avatar
d-train
RealGM
Posts: 21,227
And1: 1,098
Joined: Mar 26, 2001
   

Re: Why can't blazers get d-miles off cap again? 

Post#16 » by d-train » Mon May 17, 2010 8:18 pm

answerthink wrote:The math:
$704,752 - What Memphis paid in salary to Miles last season (according to Bender)
$196,645 - What Memphis made from Portland's tax payment
$508,107 - Net cost to Memphis

I'm not going to take the time to check your numbers but they obviously don't include the nearly $20 million in escrow money that was moved from the players pockets to the team owners pockets because cap relief was taken away from the Blazers.
Image
answerthink
Junior
Posts: 325
And1: 10
Joined: Aug 12, 2009
Contact:

Re: Why can't blazers get d-miles off cap again? 

Post#17 » by answerthink » Tue May 18, 2010 4:40 am

The cap relief that was afforded and subsequently taken away from the Blazers had no effect on the distribution of escrow funds.

Escrow funds are collected based on player salaries. Miles' salary was paid in full, despite the salary cap relief afforded the Blazers, and the escrow funds were withdrawn accordingly.

The distribution of those funds is based upon the interplay of Total Salaries and Benefits and Designated Percentage of BRI for each salary cap year. For the purposes of the calculation of the defined term Total Salaries, amounts paid to players in Miles' situation are included (as per its definition in Art I, Sec 1(nnn)((iii)).

You are always more than welcome to check any calculations I provide. On the site "http://heathoops.net/forecasting", I have re-created what I believe to be the calculations utilized by league to determine the salary cap, tax threshold and various other key metrics (to within a very small rounding error) -- for each historical and projected year of the current CBA. It also includes the historical and projected escrow and tax calculations, utilizing whatever information was available to me. I have emailed the more detailed underlying spreadsheets to various salary cap experts for their own usage. But please don't hesitate to let me know if you believe I've made an error. I am always genuinely appreciative of any feedback.

Return to CBA & Business