Why did SUNS receive a $3,966,207 TE for Banks?

[arenas809]

I think I have a fine understanding of the cap

I would say based off this thread and the frontloading thread you do not.

[bgwizarfan]

^ and you're still confusing terminology in all of your posts. In order for teams to look at trades differently from each side, the big trade must work for all teams over the cap. Because the Shaq for Marion and Banks trade works from both sides to begin with, then we can try to look at it and see if there's a better way to split it up.

The easiest way to do it, in my mind, is to figure out what the "big trades" are first. So in this imminent Dallas trade, it sounds like there are going to be 2 "big trades": the Kidd for Van Horn, harris etc, and the Antoine Wright for a 2nd round pick. Those are 2 seperate "big trades" as i like to call them, so you can then look at each of those seperately from each team's perspective. You could not, however, try to include Wright with the other players going in the other trade (when trying to split it up differently from both sides), because the first "big trade" does not work with Wright involved in the deal.

That's how I try to look at each trade. Then the key for me is that once you have your "big trades" seperated, you can try to look at organizing the trade from both sides in the most favorable manner possible, but each mini-trade from each team's perspective still must all be legal under the 125% +100K rule and whatever other applicable trading rules

[Friend_Of_Haley]

^ and you're still confusing terminology in all of your posts. In order for teams to look at trades differently from each side, the big trade must work for all teams over the cap. Because the Shaq for Marion and Banks trade works from both sides to begin with, then we can try to look at it and see if there's a better way to split it up.

The easiest way to do it, in my mind, is to figure out what the "big trades" are first. So in this imminent Dallas trade, it sounds like there are going to be 2 "big trades": the Kidd for Van Horn, harris etc, and the Antoine Wright for a 2nd round pick. Those are 2 seperate "big trades" as i like to call them, so you can then look at each of those seperately from each team's perspective. You could not, however, try to include Wright with the other players going in the other trade (when trying to split it up differently from both sides), because the first "big trade" does not work with Wright involved in the deal.

That's how I try to look at each trade. Then the key for me is that once you have your "big trades" seperated, you can try to look at organizing the trade from both sides in the most favorable manner possible, but each mini-trade from each team's perspective still must all be legal under the 125% +100K rule and whatever other applicable trading rules

Really, I get all that.

The 125% rule never was a confusion for me.

My problem was that based on my understanding of non-simultaneous trades from what I read, I thought it was a separate exception, and it seemed like a loophole to me. Now that I understand that the non-simultaneous trades and simultaneous trades are part of the same exception and are meant to compliment each other in a way (when possible) it makes perfect sense to me now.

So, not that I don't have a lot to learn, but trust me, I have the basics down, at least more so than the average fan. Maybe you spend too much time on this board, I don't know. But in reading the team boards or the trade boards, theres many fans that wouldn't know for the life of them how to put together a trade that fit under the 125% trade exception rule if they didn't have trade checker.

The Larry Coon FAQ tripped me up in that particular case and I think it is because he gives many examples of what of non-simultaneous trade is but doesn't necessarily define it (I'm having flashbacks to philosophy class and "what is piety"). Thats probably where reading the first source material comes in, which I'll be sure to try from now on. But beware, if I'm still confused about any particular topic I know right where I'm coming for clarification.

[Dunkenstein]

HOF, I think it's a mistake to question whether any of the many people who have spent several hours trying to teach you some of the rudiments of how the CBA works "spend too much time on this board".

And to think because you may know more about the CBA than the average fan on the team or trade boards give you any credibility on this board, think again. You're like a guy who started on his high school team asking to be treated as an equal by NBA players.

We're always here to give answers to questions, but beware of acting like you know more than you do.

[bgwizarfan]

-= original quote snipped =-


Really, I get all that.

The 125% rule never was a confusion for me.

My problem was that based on my understanding of non-simultaneous trades from what I read, I thought it was a separate exception, and it seemed like a loophole to me. Now that I understand that the non-simultaneous trades and simultaneous trades are part of the same exception and are meant to compliment each other in a way (when possible) it makes perfect sense to me now.

So, not that I don't have a lot to learn, but trust me, I have the basics down, at least more so than the average fan. Maybe you spend too much time on this board, I don't know. But in reading the team boards or the trade boards, theres many fans that wouldn't know for the life of them how to put together a trade that fit under the 125% trade exception rule if they didn't have trade checker.

The Larry Coon FAQ tripped me up in that particular case and I think it is because he gives many examples of what of non-simultaneous trade is but doesn't necessarily define it (I'm having flashbacks to philosophy class and "what is piety"). Thats probably where reading the first source material comes in, which I'll be sure to try from now on. But beware, if I'm still confused about any particular topic I know right where I'm coming for clarification.

YOU DONT GET THAT! What i just explained to you was completely the essence and legality of Non-Simultaneous trades. Why do you think teams like splitting up the trades the best way from their perspective? TO CREATE NON-SIMULTANEOUS TRADES AND GENERATE TPE'S! The only other reason would be if they had a player that was recently traded within the past 2 months (so they could figure out a way to trade him by himself so they didn't have to wait 2 months). So no, I still think you honestly have no idea what I'm talking about. The 125% rule is basic - what i explained to you above is the mechanism for creating Non-Simultaneous Trades (in which TPE's are generated) for big trades.

And since you had no idea how the TPE worked, then I'm certain you have no idea how to split up trades, which is what I was trying to help you with. I'm sorry to be sort of rude, but you need to get it out of your head that you know a lot about the CBA, because even if you do compared to the people on your team board, you're clearly a novice on this board.

[Friend_Of_Haley]

-= original quote snipped =-



YOU DONT GET THAT! What i just explained to you was completely the essence and legality of Non-Simultaneous trades. Why do you think teams like splitting up the trades the best way from their perspective? TO CREATE NON-SIMULTANEOUS TRADES AND GENERATE TPE'S! The only other reason would be if they had a player that was recently traded within the past 2 months (so they could figure out a way to trade him by himself so they didn't have to wait 2 months). So no, I still think you honestly have no idea what I'm talking about. The 125% rule is basic - what i explained to you above is the mechanism for creating Non-Simultaneous Trades (in which TPE's are generated) for big trades.

And since you had no idea how the TPE worked, then I'm certain you have no idea how to split up trades, which is what I was trying to help you with. I'm sorry to be sort of rude, but you need to get it out of your head that you know a lot about the CBA, because even if you do compared to the people on your team board, you're clearly a novice on this board.

Okay, you seem to be discussing under what conditions a team would want to use a non-simultaneous, or why they would. I was just searching for an explanation for when it is possible.

Its possible only when:
Two over the cap teams meet the trade exception as outlined by the 125% and can split it up into a non-simultaneous trade to create a TPE if it meets the requirements of the non-simulataneous trade which iss 100% +100K (but they certainly don't have to) This would be a case like the Shaq trade, where it could have worked either way. Edit- to clarify more, for one teams, it is one simultaneous trade that only needs to fit the 125% rule. For the other team, it must fit the 100% +100K non-simultaneous rule. Which is the reason for the wording such as "for Orlando it was one simultaneous 4 for 3 trade". But basically it always has to stem from one bigger trade that fits the conditions of the trade exception.

One of the trading teams is under the cap and can absorb the salary of the player and in return a TPE to the over the cap team (but only when one player is traded).

A trade using a prior TPE, but not combined with any other exceptions.

Am I not correct in my understandings on when it can be used?

Thats really the answer I was searching for. Once I understood those were the conditions I understood how it can be used. It was confusing before, because based on what I read, it seemed like a team could specifically design a trade that was only non-simultaneous. I'll admit to this being my own fault because I only read the FAQ and not the actual source. Perhaps if I read both I would have understood under what conditions a non-simultaneous trade can be completed.

It truly read to me as a type of credit trade almost, which I obviously was a mis perception that caused my confusion. Trust me, ever since I first came across the topics of a non-simultaneous trades I have been trying to sort out in my head how it all works. Prior to all this I wasn't sure. From the best I could tell a player could be traded for nothing for a TPE. I now understand that its more complex than that and must meets certain requirements like I (hopefully correctly) outlined above.


I never intended to sound like an expert. In this thread I started by asking a question. In the other thread where I made a mistake I said "unless I'm mistaken". I don't need respect on the boards. I'm on the boards to learn more.

It wasn't that long ago that I was the dude that was like, "dude why don't we backload the deal 5, 10, 15, 20." I constantly searched for answers for things I don't understand. I guess because this is really the first time I've posted here you wouldn't know that, but I don't appreciate the "go get the basics down and then come back to us." I've put time into learning the basics the best I can, but am looking for another source. Not that that has earned me anything, but I'm just here looking for answers and clarification. I wasn't coming on here trying to stroke my ego with my knowledge of the CBA.


Obviously I've earned myself a bad rep though. But lets start fresh. I won't assume I know anything, even the basics, and no one assumes anything about my knowledge, and I'll just discuss and ask questions.