Owners Hinting At Their Position for next CBA Negotiations

[Charcoal Filtered]

Just a few simple questions for y'all. How many actual NBA games do you pay to go see live and in person? If ticket prices were more reasonable would you see more games? Do you find yourself priced out of the market?

In a perfect world ticket prices would be slashed by 40%, player salaries by 50% and I guarantee there would be A LOT more demand for tickets. We have all seen the empty lower bowls in Miami and Memphis and a lot of other cities.

I have five season tickets for the Blazers and use whatever I cannot resell. I also buy from other season ticket holders if the price is right. Probably 20-25 games a year. No way would I pay face value for a ticket. So, I would definitely see more games if prices were more reasonable and feel priced out of the market. This is even with my household income well above average.

The key though is revenue. You can put 20k into an arena by pricing cheap, but you can make more by pricing higher and only put 10k into the building. It is up to the team, with a few exceptions, on pricing.

It will be interesting to see what the final agreement looks like. For every bad contract that was named, there is a Kevin Durant or Derrick Rose stuck with a rookie deal. The owners also might want to think about how long contracts can be guaranteed too. Do you really want half the league tanking every fourth year in order to try signing Lebron or D Wade?

[ranger001]

Players initial response to owner's alleged offer? "Ludicrous"

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4895310

"I think it's a proposal that's far-reaching," said Foyle, the union's second-in-command behind president Derek Fisher. "This [new proposal] has gone too far. It wants a hard cap, it basically will create no middle class, and which, in effect, means none of the Bird rules would apply," Foyle said, referencing the so-called Larry Bird exception that allows teams to exceed the salary cap to retain their own free agents.

The owners will get what they want. These are billionaire owners and corporations. They can afford to shut the league down for a year till they get what they want. The players have no alternative, without the NBA they wouldn't be millionaires.

[turk3d]

I know there's a lot of issues but with regards to one of them which has been addressed in this thread, here's a suggestion which would seem pretty fair to me (definitely be an improvement for the owners) and would be pretty simple to implement.

Let's say a guy gets a long term deal of 5 years. As already mentioned, the first two are absolutely guaranteed. However, from the 3rd one on, the team has the right to buy the player out @ 50% of his current salary which in turn wipes out the 4th and 5th year, the exception being in an injury situation. Perhaps, those last 3 years should be covered by an insurance of some sort to compensate for injury.

This help teams out who become financially strapped (for whatever reason) or allows them to get out of deals where the player turns out to be a dud. The player (in the case of where the team just cannot afford him any more) would become a FA automatically and with 50% of his pay still coming to him for that year, should be in a good position to renegotiate a new deal somewhere else.

[Mezotarkus]

I know there's a lot of issues but with regards to one of them which has been addressed in this thread, here's a suggestion which would seem pretty fair to me (definitely be an improvement for the owners) and would be pretty simple to implement.

Let's say a guy gets a long term deal of 5 years. As already mentioned, the first two are absolutely guaranteed. However, from the 3rd one on, the team has the right to buy the player out @ 50% of his current salary which in turn wipes out the 4th and 5th year, the exception being in an injury situation. Perhaps, those last 3 years should be covered by an insurance of some sort to compensate for injury.

This help teams out who become financially strapped (for whatever reason) or allows them to get out of deals where the player turns out to be a dud. The player (in the case of where the team just cannot afford him any more) would become a FA automatically and with 50% of his pay still coming to him for that year, should be in a good position to renegotiate a new deal somewhere else.

Another tweak to make this palatable to the players association might be that the bought out player's Bird years carry with him and any team can sign the player to a contract notwithstanding salary cap rules. Thus, if the player is really crap the owners should not balk at this approach since it should not result in the owners bidding against one another to pay a superstar huge money. However, this would insulate strong performers from the risk that their team could jettison them and put them at the mercy of whatever teams have cap space.

[turk3d]

I think that would make a lot of sense (the general concept definitely would need to be refined in order to make it as fair as possibie for sides, this is just a baseline approach as there are still many other issues which will need to be resolved). Allowing him to transfer his Bird rights I think is a good idea.

[killbuckner]

You guys need to rephrase this. Basically what you want to do is to prohibit teams from offering guaranteed contracts, but if a team wants to Offer Lebron James a Guaranteed Contract don't you think they should be able to so they can lock him into more years? Otherwise why on earth would Lebron sign anything more than a 2 year deal with a player option for additional years? Teams currently offer guaranteed contracts for a reason.

[turk3d]

Maybe you give the player the same option after 2 years (in order to even things out). And perhaps you do some thing similar to the NFL, have one guy designated "franchise player" for each team so if they wanted to lock him down to a long term deal (if he agreed) they could. At least this limit each team to one "verblown contract" worse case if you will. What I would do different (from the NFL) is not force a guy to take one of these "franchise" contracts unless he was willing. You might even want to make it require a minimum salary and a certain # of years (say 10M as an example and 6 years in the league). This is all up for discussion and are just a few ideas.

[Modern_epic]

What you are proposing is in fact almost nothing at all like franchising a player in the NFL. They do both involve a high salary, but that is it.

[SA37]

The total value of a maximum contract for a veteran also would drop below $60 million, as previously reported by ESPN.com. That's less than half of what LeBron James can sign for this summer if he opts out of his contract and re-signs with Cleveland.

Speaking of guarantees, those would change, too. The person said contracts in the new proposal would be guaranteed for only half of their value, and in some instances players would receive less than 50 percent.

The person also confirmed previous reports that the proposal effectively seeks a "hard" salary cap, eliminating tools such as the Bird and midlevel exceptions that allow teams over the cap to sign free agents.

Commissioner David Stern has said the central issue will be the division of revenues, with players currently collecting 57 percent of the basketball-related income. The person said that would decrease to less than 45 percent using the current BRI formula.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4907286

If all of this is accurate, I am not really shocked that the owners have made such drastic demands. They know they're not going to get everything they want, but have set the bar low so that when they "compromise" with the players, they'll be able to get salaries down significantly.

I definitely agree with the rookie scale going down drastically. It's not the NBA's job to make a multi-millionaire out of someone who hasn't been in the league yet. However, there should be provisions for bonuses (for making the All-star game or rookie game, being named rookie of the month...etc)

On the flip side, I think a hard cap is ok, but there need to be ways for teams over the cap to improve, aside from trades. I would suggest making the current luxury tax ($70 million) threshold the hard cap and the soft cap at around $55 million, with a minimum salary total of $40 million.

[Mezotarkus]

Stern weighs in and drops of few hints of where he would like things to head.

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/02/13/ster ... index.html

Stern deflects union criticism, insists changes are needed
By Art Garcia, NBA.com
Posted Feb 14 2010 2:42AM

DALLAS -- In stark contrast to the tough rhetoric of the day before, a jovial NBA commissioner David Stern took his turn at the microphone Saturday night to address collective bargaining negotiations with the National Basketball Players Association and the economic challenges still facing the league.

Collective bargaining discussions are top of mind, especially after NBPA executive director Billy Hunter categorized Friday's meeting with the league and owners as "contentious." Stern insisted that the league wouldn't negotiate through the media, but continued to stress that the current economic model needs to be fixed for a deal to be struck.

Creating an equitable revenue sharing system for the owners and players, and among the 30 teams, is Stern's aim.

"Our goal for our teams, our players, but particularly our fans, is to come up with a model that says that every NBA team can compete," said Stern, who peppered his remarks with one-liners during a light-hearted 40-minute news conference. "We understand the difficulties that the current economic environment and other things -- market size and the like -- put on teams, but when we get to where we need to get to, there will be a very robust revenue sharing where teams will not be in a position to decline to compete because of money."

Stern maintained that the NBA's plight couldn't be disputed by the union, and that the league's books are open and available to review by the NBPA. He said the leaguewide loss projection for this season is "about $400 million" and the losses have been "at least $200 million" for the first four years of the current collective bargaining agreement. Those numbers, Stern said, are among the "undisputed facts" that led to the league's initial proposal to the union.
Hunter detailed that proposal, delivered to the union on Jan. 29, on Friday. Among the league's ideas, according to Hunter, were a reduction in the players' revenue share to less than 50 percent, the institution of a "hard" salary cap, elimination of guaranteed contracts, revision of current player contracts and the elimination of cap exceptions, such as "Bird" rights.

Stern disputed Hunter's claim that the league was pushing for a new deal before free agency opened this summer. The current CBA expires after the 2010-11 season. Hunter said the league's offer was "torn up" and taken off the table, and the union would present its own proposal in the near future.

"If they don't like it, that's what counter [offers] are about," Stern said. "Speak to me, that's all. Off the table, on the table, under the table ... I don't even understand it. The answer is that it's there for them to make a proposal. We told them, as far as we are concerned, the proposal was one way to get to the result that we need. There could be a hundred ways."

The commissioner was encouraged by the show of support and the interest taken by many of the league's All-Stars -- including LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony and Dwyane Wade -- who attended Friday's session.

"A tradition that has all of the players involved is a good tradition, and particularly, the superstars, because as I told them when I spoke to them in between practices of East and West, they lead our league," Stern said. "They are ultimately the reason our fans are here and it's always good to see them in any context, because they are so important to us."

Stern is confident that a deal will get done.

"We will manage to get to a place where we always get to," Stern said. "There is always a deal and we plan to make a deal this time, too."

Among the other issues discussed by Stern:

• He expects the sale of the Charlotte Bobcats to be completed in the next 60 days and supports Michael Jordan as a potential owner.

• Future NBA games are probably coming to a number of international cities, which could include Mexico City, Barcelona, Paris, London, Guangzhou, Beijing and Milan.

• The league is opening an office in Africa, and has plans for offices in India and the Middle East.

Art Garcia has covered the NBA since 1999. You can e-mail him here and follow him on twitter.

The views on this page do not necessarily reflect the views of the NBA, its clubs or Turner Broadcasting.

[LarryCoon]

I talked to Derek Fisher about it last week. I asked if there was anything at all in the owners' proposal that they could use as a starting point, and he just shook his head no. He also said a fixed cap wouldn't fly in any way, shape or form. They're going to go back and submit a proposal, hoping that it's something both sides could at least agree could be used as a starting point for negotiations. He was still upbeat about it, mainly because it's still early.

As for how many games we go to -- so far this season I've been to about 20, but I think my circumstances make me an exception.

[Dunkenstein]

Yeah, Larry's blog sure gives new meaning to the NY Times motto "All the news that's fit to print".

[charrua]

There are two things in there. One is the desire for a way to adjust salaries downward very quickly, the other is the eternal quest to make small market teams with few fans competitive.
I'm not sure how compatible are both goals. The only way I can think of is a system of very short contracts (2, 3 years max) and a hard cap. I can't see a reason why all big name players would not eventually bolt for big market teams, though (a 2010 offseason every two years but where the main money for the player may be in advertising).

[Mezotarkus]

Here's the latest salvo from the players:

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archi ... _overseas/

The NBA holds a trump card in potentially locking out the players if they are unable to agree on terms of a new collective bargaining agreement. Many NBA players would be unable to withstand a work stoppage due to how their expenses are arranged.

The players are without a similar trump card unless they present a collective front for several superstars to play overseas.

Derek Fisher, president of the players association, said the union isn’t thinking in those terms yet.

“It’s a long way away,” said Fisher on Tuesday. “I can’t speak for what guys might do individually, but we’ll have some things planned — some things we’ll need to fall back on if things go a certain way. Right now we’re trying to stay focused on the positives and take advantage of there being a year and a half before we get down to doomsday.”

Marquee players could head to Europe's well-established teams, but one agent sees China as a potential wild card.

Bernie Lee, who represents John Lucas III of the Shanghai Sharks, envisions the Chinese Basketball Association joining together with shoe companies to create a viable business model to attract premier NBA players.

“You’d have guys making huge money, and open up marketing opportunities that just don’t exist in North America anymore,” he said. “I can’t imagine what would happen if you put Dwyane Wade in Beijing or Chris Bosh in Shanghai — the opportunities would be endless.”

[Dunkenstein]

To be fair, it should be pointed out that the above quote is excerpted from a longer piece that Larry Coon posted on his NY Times blog.

http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/ ... /?emc=eta1

[Mezotarkus]

To be fair, it should be pointed out that the above quote is excerpted from a longer piece that Larry Coon posted on his NY Times blog.

http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/ ... /?emc=eta1

Yes, to anyone that manages to get to bottom of the realgm link there is a reference to Larry's post.