What is the deal with McDyess?

[FGump]

How would a partial season contract of any kind not be considered to be changing teams? It's a contract with a team, right?

I believe (without having it in front of me) that a 10-day contract is specifically excluded.

Are you saying a player is NOT considered to have changed teams if he signs a 10-day contract? Where would it say such a thing in the CBA, for example? That's counterintuitive to me.

I see where 10-day contracts are treated differently in regards to waivers, and can understand how they might not want a 10-day deal which runs out in the middle of a season to START the Bird clock. But why wouldn't him signing a 10-day with a new team END his prior Bird clock?

Part of what has caused confusion imo is the understanding of what is meant by "signed contracts exclusively with what will become his Prior Team" during that 3 year window. Using McDyess as an example, it's not requiring that each contract in the prior 3 years have been signed with his most prior team to summer of 2009 (ie Detroit), but rather that each signing in that 3 year window be done with the same team with whom he had the immediately preceding contract. There's a big difference.

"Prior Team" is a defined term in the CBA. It refers specifically to the last team for which the player played prior to becoming a VFA. Since this year McDyess will finish the season with Detroit, they are the only team to which "Prior Team" applies. Even though he changed teams in 2008-09, he only signed with his Prior Team (Detroit). The part of the rule that keeps him from being Bird is that he changed teams by signing with his prior team in the THIRD year, not the first.

Larry, I respectfully still think you're off base on this one.

I know that Prior Team is defined in the CBA. I looked at the definition very carefully BEFORE i asked you the above - and I don't believe it's saying what you claim it does as pertains to AD.

To be specific, when you say "Even though [AD] changed teams in 2008-09, he only signed with his Prior Team (Detroit). The part of the rule that keeps him from being Bird is that he changed teams by signing with his prior team" what you just said is in specific contradiction to the definition of Prior Team.

Read the definition again (which is what I was trying to get you to focus on by talking about the teams in all 3 years), and you'll see that when he signed with Detroit, Detroit was NOT his Prior Team at that point. His Prior Team - at the point of free agency after the waiver - had become DENVER when he was traded. The first year-third year stuff is irrelevant.

[LarryCoon]

LCoon, thanks for the info. Some added questions/quibbles...

FAQ 76 currently says a waiver resets the Bird clock.

No it doesn't.

Thanks for the catch on 76. It's the fact that he didn't complete his last contract that makes Bird unavailable.

Q: In the new FAQ 25, you said ..."If a player is waived and is claimed by another team before he clears waivers, then it is treated as a trade and does not affect his Bird clock.

I think in the past we have discussed this and been told that even though it ends in a reassignment of a contract, being claimed on waivers is NOT treated the same as a trade. Did you get this new and different revelation from the league?

I don't recall it being different, but I did get it from the league. If he's waived and claimed, then he still completes his contract.

Q: In the new FAQ 25 you said ..."If a team renounces a player (see question number 33), they can't use the Bird exception to re-sign him for one year."

Note that you stated in the addendum comparing old and new CBA's that in the 2005 version "Renouncing a veteran free agent resets that player's Bird clock" while in the prior "Renouncing a veteran free agent relinquishes Bird rights for that season only" as per the above.

As I recall, in the wake of discussions on the viability of other VanHorn-to-NJ-like sign-and-trades, with the idea that those old Bird rights might never end, didn't you get some hint from the league that the "restoration after one year" rule had been scrubbed in the 2005 CBA? Or did they hint one way, and then go the other?

Where this would be relevant would be where teams fall below the cap, use cap space to sign players, and in so doing they would renounce all those irrelevant Bird rights "once and for all." Gradually, that clears those old possibilities off the books permanently. But now, maybe it's not truly "and for all." Yes?

This is a case where I got burned. I was 100% sure of my interpretation via what I thought was a clear and unambiguous reading of the CBA. Last summer I heard a team exec make a statement that ran counter to the rule, and I even called the league and told them, "You might want to set X straight on this." Turned out they set ME straight on it.

I wrote up the logic behind it right after the conversation -- I'll have to dig it up. Suffice for now that the FAQ is 100% accurate on this issue (much to my chagrin...).

[LarryCoon]

Are you saying a player is NOT considered to have changed teams if he signs a 10-day contract? Where would it say such a thing in the CBA, for example? That's counterintuitive to me.

I was thinking of, "'Veteran Free Agent' means a Veteran who completed his Player Contract (other
than a 10-Day Contract) by rendering the playing services called for thereunder." Like I said, it wasn't in front of me last night.

Larry, I respectfully still think you're off base on this one.

I know that Prior Team is defined in the CBA. I looked at the definition very carefully BEFORE i asked you the above - and I don't believe it's saying what you claim it does as pertains to AD.

Just a note here -- every time you write "AD," I go through a mental process that starts, "Why is he talking about Adrian Dantley?"

To be specific, when you say "Even though [AD] changed teams in 2008-09, he only signed with his Prior Team (Detroit). The part of the rule that keeps him from being Bird is that he changed teams by signing with his prior team" what you just said is in specific contradiction to the definition of Prior Team.

Read the definition again (which is what I was trying to get you to focus on by talking about the teams in all 3 years), and you'll see that when he signed with Detroit, Detroit was NOT his Prior Team at that point.

Correct - AT THAT POINT. However, when he ends that contract, and you're determining whether Detroit has Bird rights, Detroit IS his "Prior Team."

His Prior Team - at the point of free agency after the waiver - had become DENVER when he was traded. The first year-third year stuff is irrelevant.

Not this summer. This summer Detroit is his Prior Team, and he will have changed teams (to his Prior Team, ironically) by signing as a free agent in a year other than the first year, which makes him ineligible for Bird.

[Three34]

I'd just like to say at this juncture that everything you lot are talking about is really confusing. That is all. Carry on.