WT: How Chicago can sign 3 max players

[lakerfan10770]

While it is true that the Chicago Bulls currently do not currently have the space for even two maximum free agents at the present moment, they can wield the rules of the NBA salary cap to get Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, and Chris Bosh with a little fancy maneuvering.

Before getting into the nitty gritty, there are a few basic assumptions:

1. The maximum contract each of the three players can receive is $16,568,908. This was estimated by RealGM numerous places, including this piece.

2. The Bulls are currently $3.5 million short of having the space for two max contracts, according to (Larry Coon)

From here, we need to rely on two different rules.

First we have the 125% rule. This rule indicates that any team can take on 125% of the contract values they send out in a trade, plus $100,000 of buffer room. As such, take the maximum contract value above, divide it by 1.25 and subtract $100k from that total and you get $13,155,126. This is the minimum value a team at or over the cap could send in contracts for a max-level player while satisfying this rule. However, cap space can also be used to reduce this number if it is available.

Since the Bulls are $3.5M short of two maximum salaries right now, a move that sent Luol Deng elsewhere bringing nothing back would give Chicago approximately $7.855M in cap room to work with beyond the space allocated for the second max free agent. As such, we could take this value off the top of the $13,155,126.

Doing so, the Bulls could work a sign-and-trade for the third max free agent that includes around $5,299,276 or more in salary. While the non-Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah Bulls (Taj Gibson and James Johnson) make less than this figure combined, Chicago could use a sign-and-trade of one of their current players like Brad Miller to do it. Using a current player allows the team to use Bird rights to re-sign that guy while not using up the space needed to sign the second max contract.

As such, a deal that includes some combination of Taj Gibson, James Johnson, signed and traded free agent(s) at a reasonable sum (as well as picks, in all likelihood) and adds up to around $5.3 million or more after or coinciding with a Luol Deng trade would make adding a third max player while still having Rose and Noah on roster a reality.

Maybe it's just me, but this seems to be quite off the mark.

[Dunkenstein]

Actually his premise isn't wrong, it's just not stated clearly. So let me try to state it in another way.

Since we don't yet know where the salary cap actually will come in when announced next week, let's go with numbers written by Chad Ford on ESPN last week. He said, "LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and others are projected to earn $16.6 million in first-year salaries." He also put the Bulls cap room at $29.17 million after Hinrich and Seraphin are traded to the Wizards.

So let's say the Bulls start by signing their first max player using just cap room. That would reduce their available cap room to $12.57 million.

Then they use a double SNT by signing Brad Miller to let's say a contract starting at $5M and trading him to obtain their second max player. They easily have enough available cap room to make the deal work.

Finally, if the Bulls trade Deng, Johnson and Gibson, whose combined salaries equal $14.175 million, they have enough salary to obtain a third max player in a SNT using the 125% rule.

That's what I think Daniel Leroux was trying to say.

[lakerfan10770]

Actually his premise isn't wrong, it's just not stated clearly. So let me try to state it in another way.

Since we don't yet know where the salary cap actually will come in when announced next week, let's go with numbers written by Chad Ford on ESPN last week. He said, "LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and others are projected to earn $16.6 million in first-year salaries." He also put the Bulls cap room at $29.17 million after Hinrich and Seraphin are traded to the Wizards.

So let's say the Bulls start by signing their first max player using just cap room. That would reduce their available cap room to $12.57 million.

Then they use a double SNT by signing Brad Miller to let's say a contract starting at $5M and trading him to obtain their second max player. They easily have enough available cap room to make the deal work.

Finally, if the Bulls trade Deng, Johnson and Gibson, whose combined salaries equal $14.175 million, they have enough salary to obtain a third max player in a SNT using the 125% rule.

That's what I think Daniel Leroux was trying to say.

What about the cap holds for minimum roster charges and the $18.75M cap hold that Brad Miller has?

Plus he is insinuating that you can add 125% + $100,000 to cap space in a trade.

[answerthink]

The premise is flawed in that a team can't combine cap space with the traded player exception to complete a trade.

However, the situation is technically possible, albeit unlikely. The Bulls can create the necessary cap space to sign one max contract free agent. They can also create the cap space to sign Brad Miller to a $13.2 million contract as part of a sign-and-trade for a second (without any BYC concerns). Then, as Dunk mentioned, they could trade Deng, Gibson and Johnson for the third. As you can see, highly unlikely but technically possible.

[So Cal Blazer Fan]

Derrick Rose - $5,546,160
Joakim Noah - $3,128,536
Three max player - $49,706,724
Seven minimum salary cap holds - $3,315,228

Isn't this combination only possible if the cap is set at $61.70 million or higher?

[answerthink]

Nope. Your analysis ignores the potential for the Bulls to utilize the Traded Player Exception. (It also applies roster charges incorrectly, but this is a separate issue).

[So Cal Blazer Fan]

Nope. Your analysis ignores the potential for the Bulls to utilize the Traded Player Exception. (It also applies roster charges incorrectly, but this is a separate issue).

LOL at me, helps if I actually read through all the posts before glibly posting.....

Yes, that double S&T of Miller for Max Player #2 is the key. A very interesting, though as you say unlikely, proposition.

[lakerfan10770]

The premise is flawed in that a team can't combine cap space with the traded player exception to complete a trade.

However, the situation is technically possible, albeit unlikely. The Bulls can create the necessary cap space to sign one max contract free agent. They can also create the cap space to sign Brad Miller to a $13.2 million contract as part of a sign-and-trade for a second (without any BYC concerns). Then, as Dunk mentioned, they could trade Deng, Gibson and Johnson for the third. As you can see, highly unlikely but technically possible.

I don't think they can sign even 1 max free agent without renouncing Brad Miller, unless they first trade Deng, which kind of defeats the purpose of this exercise. I've tried working this scenario a couple of different ways and it is not possible for the Bulls to acquire three players making $16,568,908, while keeping Noah & Rose.

In you're example, the Bulls would have:

Miller - $18,375,000 (Cap Hold)
Deng - $11,835,000
Rose - 5,546,160
Noah - $3,128,536
Johnson - $1,713,600
Gibson - $1,117,680
Min Roster Charge - $2,814,624
Total - $44,557,600

Cap space - $11,542,000 (based on $56.1M cap)

[answerthink]

You are absolutely right, and that was my bad. The Bulls would need to replace Miller with Alexander, Law, Murray, Pargo, Brown, Richard and Kurtz. Even more absurd.

[lakerfan10770]

This is the closest I could realistically get to them acquiring all three players. One caveat is that it is extremely unlikely that either the Cavs or the Heat do a S&T with Bron or Wade, the Raptors are thought to be willing to S&T Bosh, but reports today suggest that is not the case anymore. Anyways here is the unlikely scenario:

Bulls renounce all free agents exceptions and whatnot, they also trade James Johnson while taking back no salary. That leaves them with:

Deng - $11,835,000
Rose - $5,546,160
Noah - $3,128,536
Gibson - $1,117,680
8 Min Roster Charges - $3,788,832
Total cap of $25,416,208

Assuming a cap of $56.1M, that leaves $30,683,792 + $473,604 for Bron & Wade to split. So they both sign contracts starting at $15,578,698.

Once those two contracts are signed, the Bulls then Trade Deng (to the Clippers?) and Taj Gibson to the Raptors for Chris Bosh S&T'd to a contract starting as high as $16,290,850. Now this assumes that Bryan Colangelo wants to get fired and hated on for the rest of his life for helping to facilitate this "super team", and that he actually would accept a huge TPE and Taj Gibson in return for doing so.

Highly unlikely of course, but that is as close as I could get to making this work.

[answerthink]

That wouldn’t really accomplish the goal.

There are multiple equally unrealistic ways ways to accomplish it, including a sign-and-trade of Lebron James and Antawn Jamison for cap space, which would allow for Jamison to be re-traded for a second and Deng, Johnson and Gibson for a third.

[FGump]

That wouldn’t really accomplish the goal.

There are multiple equally unrealistic ways ways to accomplish it, including a sign-and-trade of Lebron James and Antawn Jamison for cap space, which would allow for Jamison to be re-traded for a second and Deng, Johnson and Gibson for a third.

That plan would probably be killed by NBA offices, and leave the Bulls stuck with Jamison. When the re-trade of Jamison was submitted, for a bigger salary, his acquisition would very likely be deemed (with numerous competing GMs pointing it out) as an increase-the-basis means of cap circumvention, which is forbidden ...and the league would then prevent Jamison from being re-traded for the max player.

Increase-the-basis is a series of two or more trades by one team, where you use the 125% rule to increase your cap room over multiple consecutive trades to acquire a more expensive player than you originally would have been able to get. For example, in theory if a team wanted a $10M player but only had a $5M player to use, they trade him for a $6.35M one, then trade the $6.35M guy for $8.0375M, then $8.0375M for $10.1468M. In the Jamison case, they'd be swapping 13.3M of cap space - which can't be traded for more than 13.3M of player - into 16.6M of player using multiple transactions to increase the basis.

More generally, I think most if not all of the convoluted answers to this puzzle would need to use some sort of increase-the-basis angle ...and ultimately I don't think the Bulls could actually get 3 max players while keeping Noah and Rose. The article written was pure dreck for its lack of cap compliance of course, but I don't think there's any solution (even convoluted and therefore fanciful) the writer could have found to validate his thesis.

[Three34]

James Johnson is probably going to be included in the Wizards trade. Just thought I'd mention that.

[answerthink]

I would suggest that it might not be so easy to prove intent in such a scenario. An acquisition of Lebron and Jamison certainly makes valid sense on its own (in my perspective). Jamison is a highly talented player in his own right. Alongside Rose, Deng and Noah, it would make for quite a nice core. But that wouldn’t necessarily preclude the team from upgrading to a Chris Bosh-type if it subsequently became a possibility. Though, as you suggest, it would most certainly be a concern. And as Sham suggests, it's nearly impossible to fathom. Just my thoughts, which you can certainly disagree with.

[FGump]

I don't think intent would matter in this or other examples; it would just be an ipso facto application of the rules that prevent circumvention. You had 13.3M in cap space, you in short sequence turned it into 16.6M in players, that's not allowed.

[answerthink]

I would suggest that intent would need to be proven. The rules, in and of themselves, do allow these separate transactions to occur. Circumvention is regarded as an intentional act (i.e., "designed to serve the purpose of defeating...the provisions of this Agreement").

However, I will allow you - with your much longer and more dedicated experience - to offer any additional thoughts without a response from me.

[FGump]

This situation isn't a long process ... so intent would be obvious when the two moves follow one after the other in short order ...but more than that, the rules allow common sense to rule rather than some sort of test-tube proof. To prove intent, it doesn't take a confession under wiltering cross examination, just a look at the actions and a ruling by the league. If we know it (and we would), they'll know it.