RealGM

Previous reports said Tyrus Thomas received a 17.5% signing bonus the 1st year of his last contract giving him a total of between 12 & 12.5 million his initial season. The total salary is reported to be 40 million over 5 years.

From reading Larry Coon's FAQ that bonus is spread out over the guaranteed years of his contract in regards to cap hold. What happens if Tyrus is traded? Will that signing bonus be prorated and paid back to the Bobcats by the receiving team or would they only be on the hook for the 28 million over the next 4 years?

According to the salary figures provided by ESPN, Thomas did not receive a signing bonus.

Even if he did the signing bonus is not paid back to the Bobcats. That bonus goes to the players pocket immediately and is not returned. The receiving team is on the hook for the book salary for cap purposes which would be less than the actual salary.

edit: I meant more than the actual salary. i.e. the salary for cap purposes includes the bonus, the actual salary does not include the bonus.

answerthink wrote:According to the salary figures provided by ESPN, Thomas did not receive a signing bonus.

According to multiple reports at the time he did.

http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2010/0 ... s_who.html

And just like that, Tyrus Thomas gets a five-year, $40 million contract from the Bobcats, with a 17.5 percent bonus up front.

That means his first-year salary is $12 million, a chatty agent tells us.

I think the salary sites are showing the cap hit...not his actual year to year salary.

ranger001 wrote:Even if he did the signing bonus is not paid back to the Bobcats. That bonus goes to the players pocket immediately and is not returned. The receiving team is on the hook for the book salary for cap purposes which would be less than the actual salary.

That makes sense. I figured the cap hit either transferred or went away completely in regards to the receiving team.

Apologies for the delayed response. I don’t make it around here as much these days…

The maximum raise in base salary and incentive compensation, each individually, a player can receive in the second year of his contract is 10.5% of his first year amount.

A signing bonus is paid upon signing and allocated over the life of a contract for salary cap purposes in proportion to the percentage of base salary in each of the seasons that is guaranteed. Since a player’s guarantee cannot increase from one season to the next, the allocation of his signing bonus also cannot increase from one season to the next.

Since base salary and incentive compensation can each only increase by a maximum 10.5% and the allocation of a signing bonus can only stay constant or decline from one season to the next, it is impossible for a player contract to contain a signing bonus and call for an increase of 10.5% in total salary in the second year.

According to ESPN, Thomas’ total salary for next season calls for a 10.5% raise. Therefore, he did not receive a signing bonus.

As for the general rule, the response provided by ranger001 is correct. If a team pays a player salary in advance of a season, then trades the player, his new team settles up with his old team. In the case of a signing bonus, however, there is no settlement; what is paid is paid.

answerthink wrote:Apologies for the delayed response. I don’t make it around here as much these days…

The maximum raise in base salary and incentive compensation, each individually, a player can receive in the second year of his contract is 10.5% of his first year amount.

A signing bonus is paid upon signing and allocated over the life of a contract for salary cap purposes in proportion to the percentage of base salary in each of the seasons that is guaranteed. Since a player’s guarantee cannot increase from one season to the next, the allocation of his signing bonus also cannot increase from one season to the next.

Since base salary and incentive compensation can each only increase by a maximum 10.5% and the allocation of a signing bonus can only stay constant or decline from one season to the next, it is impossible for a player contract to contain a signing bonus and call for an increase of 10.5% in total salary in the second year.

According to ESPN, Thomas’ total salary for next season calls for a 10.5% raise. Therefore, he did not receive a signing bonus.

As for the general rule, the response provided by ranger001 is correct. If a team pays a player salary in advance of a season, then trades the player, his new team settles up with his old team. In the case of a signing bonus, however, there is no settlement; what is paid is paid.

Per the NBA FAQ Thomas could receive up to 17.5% of his contract his first year.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q65

How do you know ESPN isn't showing Charlotte's cap hit instead of his actual salary? Do they actually have a salary page like Sham, Hoopshype, etc.? All I've ever seen was the Trade Checker.

If it is the Trade Checker wouldn't it make sense if it was the cap hit...since that's the number which would be used in trades?

Unlike Matthews (whose contract was given to Utah for the chance to match) Tyrus was signed outright. Whenever that happens the NBA always states "per team policy the details of the contract were not disclosed" (paraphrasing).

I also know salary sites can have players wrong. For instance, for the life of his deal sites showed Gerald Wallace with a conventional deal but we all knew it was a flat contract with incentives. Similar with Matt "Carroll; his salary actually decreased but was also shown as a conventional deal.

ESPN could be wrong (which is why I keep saying “according to ESPN”). But all external salary sites, including Shamsports and Hoopshype, would also need to be wrong (as they have the same numbers).

These external salary sites are reflecting his cap hit. It is this cap hit which makes him having a signing bonus impossible. Please try to follow along with me to understand why…

1. Thomas signed a fully-guaranteed 5-year, $40 million contract.
2. His total salary (for salary cap purposes) is set to increase by 10.5% in the second year.
3. A 17.5% signing bonus equals $7 million.
4. The $7 million would be allocated $1.4 million per season (for salary cap purposes).

Since… the signing bonus portion of his salary would not increase at all in the second year (for salary cap purposes) and his total salary is set to increase by the maximum 10.5% in the second year (for salary cap purposes)…

Then… the base salary portion of his total salary (which is the same for both salary cap and actual compensation purposes) would, by default, need to increase by more than 10.5% in the second year. This is impossible.

(To be complete with my answer, I should mention that it is technically possible for the non-signing-bonus portion of a player’s salary to increase by more than 10.5% if a portion of it is an unlikely performance bonus which subsequently becomes likely. It is even technically possible to create a contract that includes a 17.5% signing bonus and produces a cap hit such as the one reflected on the external sites you mention once the second salary cap year begins. But, of course, that did not happen here).

answerthink wrote:These external salary sites are reflecting his cap hit. It is this cap hit which makes him having a signing bonus impossible.

What they think is his cap hit.

I still maintain that it's entirely likely that no one has given these sites details of the contract...so everyone is assuming a conventional deal with 10.5% raises.

If you totally ignore what these sites are saying and use Larry Coon's formula do you still say it's impossible for him to have received a signing bonus?

No player salaries are publicly reported by the league. It is certainly possible that external salary sites like ESPN and Shamsports are incorrect in their contract details (and if they are incorrect, as relates to Thomas, it is certainly possible his contract contains a signing bonus). It is also possible that columnists are incorrect in their articles.

Whatever you believe, I hope that either I or Ranger001 has provided you with the answers you were seeking.

Yes you guys did and I appreciate the responses.

I emailed Shamsports...and they feel pretty strongly that the information they're showing is correct and that Tyrus did NOT get a signing bonus. They say he does have clauses for incentives...but at this time he's not considered strongly in meeting them.

Oh well. It would have been nice from our (Bobcats' fans) perspective if his cost wasn't what the sites were showing.

I have closely followed Shamsports for years & I dont recall any mistakes in salaries. The site is extremely accurate.

Unfortunately Sham just retired as Moderator and is moving on to better opportunities in life or else he would probably reply on this Forum.

The salary sites should show the cap hit - not when the actual salary was paid. For example, Luol Deng's salary is deferred 30% (the max allowed). He is not getting paid annually what the sites show.

Reports were that Eddy Curry had received almost in his entire salary by the time he was traded due to requested salary advances. I always wondered if Minn had to pay NY back any of it or if the Knicks just didnt ask for it because they wereglad to get rid of Curry

Curry had received $8.9 million of his original $11.3 million salary by the time he was traded.

The Wolves had no choice but to settle up with the Knicks. But the Wolves reportedly also received the max $3.0 million in cash from the Knicks in the trade, which was more than enough to cover both the settle-up amount and Curry’s trade bonus.