Combining Trade Exceptions

[Curmudgeon]

So, the Celtics have two small trade exceptions (about $450K each) for Erden and Harangody, from when those two players were traded to Cleveland for a second round pick. Could the Celtics combine those two exceptions to trade for a $900K player, given that both exceptions arose in the same trade? That would seem to be possible given the nonsimultaneous trade rules as I understand them.

[HartfordWhalers]

So, the Celtics have two small trade exceptions (about $450K each) for Erden and Harangody, from when those two players were traded to Cleveland for a second round pick. Could the Celtics combine those two exceptions to trade for a $900K player, given that both exceptions arose in the same trade? That would seem to be possible given the nonsimultaneous trade rules as I understand them.

You really can't combine them to take on a player (or rework the original trade(s) to get a TPE bigger then the salary of any individual player outgoing), but they should be able to absorb a 900k player anyway as min salary players can be absorbed without regards for matching.

[Curmudgeon]

Why not if it's the same trade? If the trade had been simultaneous the Celtics could have taken back 125% of $900K.

So let's make the numbers bigger to avoid the minimum salary issue. I trade two $5M players to a team that is $12M under the cap for a draft pick.

So now I have one year to complete the trade. Can I use the two exceptions to acquire a $10M player? (I could have taken back a single $10M player--or an $11M player or a $12.5M player for that matter-- in a simultaneous trade.)

If not, why not? Can you point me to express language in the CBA? The old CBA language will be fine, since I have not read anyqwhere that the rules on trade exceptions were changed in the new deal.

[DBoys]

You can only "aggregate" Trade Exceptions when they are being used simultaneously to the trade in which they were created.

The CBA wording is somewhat convoluted, but it says "here's what you can do with a trade exception if used simultaneously" followed by a second section that says "here's what you can do with a trade exception if used non-simultaneously." In neither of those sections does it permit exceptions to be aggregated. Then in the 3rd section, it says "A Team may aggregate the pre-trade Salaries in two (2) or more Player Contracts for the purpose of acquiring in a simultaneous trade one (1) or more Replacement Players whose ..." and that permission to aggregate only appears and is applicable to a simultaneous trade.

Look up the section of the CBA that deals with trade exceptions, if you want to read the text. I think it's in Art VII Sec 5.

[Curmudgeon]

Thanks, but where does it say you can't aggregate in a nonsimultaneous trade?

[DBoys]

1 There is no wording that is that explicit.
2 But the prohibition is a "lack of permission" type of thing. It arises from the fact that you must have an exception to add a player, if you are over the cap ...and there is no place that allows you to "aggregate" any trade exceptions unless it's a simultaneous trade.
3 In addition, NBA GMs will tell you that it just can't be done. In the past I was playing with possibilities like we all do, and had the opportunity to ask, "How would you do it" and one of them kindly and patiently steered me straight (by answering several emails and follow ups) to the oh-so-simple fact that if you have a NS TPE for $X, then you will never be able to use it for a player making more than $X+100K, no matter how hard you try or what you try to do to get around it.

[DBoys]

By the way, you're attacking this from the wrong direction. The question that you should be asking is, "Where does it give permission to violate the cap and add a contract via trade by combining NS trade exceptions that I have?" We often lose sight of the fact that the cap is absolute, and unless you have a specified exception to use, you cannot add more salary once it's full. And since the CBA does not specify such a latitude as you seek, then a player can't be added to your already-full cap by that means.

[Curmudgeon]

1 There is no wording that is that explicit.

I'm not "attacking" the provision. There is no provision. The answer appears to be that the CBA (at least the old one) is ambiguous on this point. And if the league office is refusing to allow trades in which exceptions FROM THE SAME TRADE are aggregated it is doing so arbitrarily and illogically.

[DBoys]

There really isn't any ambiguity, and where they draw the line is always arbitrary to some degree, but it's their league so they can create the rules as they see fit.

The rule is simple: you can't ever exceed the cap, unless you have an exception to allow you to do so, and then you have to conform to the terms of that exception. In the circumstance you're theorizing, the reason why you can't do it is that it simply doesn't fit within the limits of any allowable exception.

[answerthink]

Trade exceptions cannot be combined under any circumstances.

Trade exceptions are only created in non-simultaneous trades. Non-simultaneous trades are only allowed when one player is traded away.

In the example provided, trading away the two players with salaries of $5 million each would technically be considered two separate trades from the perspective of the outgoing team, and would create two separate $5 million trade exceptions. For each such trade exception, the team can subsequently take on one or more players whose aggregate salaries total up to $5.1 million (as the completion of each individual trade). But the two exceptions cannot be combined to acquire a player making more than $5.1 million.

The rule can be found, quite explicitly, in the old CBA starting in Art VII, Sec 6(h)(1) and continuing in Art VII, Sec 6(h)(1)(ii).

[Curmudgeon]

Trade exceptions cannot be combined under any circumstances.


The rule can be found, quite explicitly, in the old CBA starting in Art VII, Sec 6(h)(1) and continuing in Art VII, Sec 6(h)(1)(ii).

Thew rule isn't explicit at all.

6(h)(1) provides:

(1) Subject to the rules set forth in Section 6(k) below, a Team may, for a period of one year following the date of the trade of a Player Contract to another Team, replace the Traded Player with one (1) or more players acquired by assignment as follows:

(i) A Team may replace a Traded Player with one (1) or more Replacement Players whose Player Contracts are acquired simultaneously and whose post-assignment Salaries for the then-current Salary Cap Year, in the aggregate, are no more than an amount equal to 125% of the pre-trade Salary (or Base Year Compensation, if applicable) of the Traded Player, plus $100,000.

(ii) If a Team’s trade of a player and acquisition of one (1) or more Replacement Players do not occur simultaneously, then the post-assignment Salary or aggregate Salaries of the Replacement Player(s) for the Salary Cap Year in which the Replacement Player(s) are acquired may not exceed 100% of the pre-trade Salary (or Base Year Compensation, if applicable) of the Traded Player at the time the Traded Player’s Contract was traded, plus $100,000.
A Team may aggregate the pre-trade Salaries in two (2) or more Player Contracts for the purpose of acquiring in a simultaneous trade one (1) or more Replacement Players whose post-trade Salaries, in the aggregate, are no more than an amount equal to 125% of the pre-trade aggregated Salaries (or Base Year Compensations, if applicable) of the Traded Players, plus $100,000. Notwithstanding the preceding sentence, no Player Contract acquired pursuant to an Exception may
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give rise to an aggregated trade exception for a period of two (2) months from the date the Player Contract is acquired.
(2) Except as provided in Section 6 (h)(3) below, and notwithstanding Section 6(k) below, a Team with a Team Salary below the Salary Cap may acquire one (1) or more players by assignment whose post-assignment Salaries, in the aggregate, are no more than an amount equal to the Team’s Room plus $100,000.

[Curmudgeon]

Trade exceptions cannot be combined under any circumstances.


The rule can be found, quite explicitly, in the old CBA starting in Art VII, Sec 6(h)(1) and continuing in Art VII, Sec 6(h)(1)(ii).

The rule isn't explicit at all.

6(h)(1) provides:

"(1) Subject to the rules set forth in Section 6(k) below, a Team may, for a period of one year following the date of the trade of a Player Contract to another Team, replace the Traded Player with one (1) or more players acquired by assignment as follows:

(i) A Team may replace a Traded Player with one (1) or more Replacement Players whose Player Contracts are acquired simultaneously and whose post-assignment Salaries for the then-current Salary Cap Year, in the aggregate, are no more than an amount equal to 125% of the pre-trade Salary (or Base Year Compensation, if applicable) of the Traded Player, plus $100,000.

(ii) If a Team’s trade of a player and acquisition of one (1) or more Replacement Players do not occur simultaneously, then the post-assignment Salary or aggregate Salaries of the Replacement Player(s) for the Salary Cap Year in which the Replacement Player(s) are acquired may not exceed 100% of the pre-trade Salary (or Base Year Compensation, if applicable) of the Traded Player at the time the Traded Player’s Contract was traded, plus $100,000.

A Team may aggregate the pre-trade Salaries in two (2) or more Player Contracts for the purpose of acquiring in a simultaneous trade one (1) or more Replacement Players whose post-trade Salaries, in the aggregate, are no more than an amount equal to 125% of the pre-trade aggregated Salaries (or Base Year Compensations, if applicable) of the Traded Players, plus $100,000. Notwithstanding the preceding sentence, no Player Contract acquired pursuant to an Exception may give rise to an aggregated trade exception for a period of two (2) months from the date the Player Contract is acquired.

(2) Except as provided in Section 6 (h)(3) below, and notwithstanding Section 6(k) below, a Team with a Team Salary below the Salary Cap may acquire one (1) or more players by assignment whose post-assignment Salaries, in the aggregate, are no more than an amount equal to the Team’s Room plus $100,000."

Nowhere in 6(h) does the old CBA say that exceptions acquired in the same trade cannot be aggregated. Section 6(1)(ii) simply says that in a nonsimultaneous trade, the salary you can take back in return is capped at 100%, not %125%.

[answerthink]

You are quoting the correct sections. I am not sure how much more explicit the language can be, but I am happy to keep answering any questions you may have.

Art VII, Sec 6(h)(1) states that if a team trades away one player, then it has the up to one year to acquire one or more players… Art VII, Sec 6(h)(1)(ii) finishes the thought by continuing… whose post assignment salaries may not exceed 100% of the traded player’s salary, plus $100k.

I believe you are getting tripped up in thinking that multiple trade exceptions can be acquired in the same trade. That is not possible. Non-simultaneous trades are only allowed when one player is traded away. And since it is not technically possible for a team to acquire more than one trade exception while trading away only one player, you hopefully therefore have the answer to your question.

[Curmudgeon]

No, it says one (1) OR MORE replacement players. The "or more" language appears in both subsections (1) and (ii).

[answerthink]

I believe you are confusing outgoing and incoming. In a non-simultaneous trade, a team can only send out one player. The team can receive back one or more.

[Curmudgeon]

I believe you are confusing outgoing and incoming. In a non-simultaneous trade, a team can only send out one player. The team can receive back one or more.

Yes, I see that now. BUT, Subsection 2 seems to say that if you are under the cap, you could combine them, since in theory a team under the cap could make a multiple player trade in which it takes in less salary than it sends out.

[answerthink]

Great.

Art VII, Sec 6(h)(2) says that if a team is below the salary cap, it can use all of its room below the salary cap plus $100k to trade for one or more players. This is something you probably already know, and has nothing to do with trade exceptions.

[Curmudgeon]

Two teams, A and B, both $10M under the cap.
Team A trades two players, each with a $2M salary, to team B for two players, each with $3M salary.

Three months later, Team A goes over the cap by matching an offer sheet for one of its own restricted free agents.

1. Were two $1M trade exceptions generated in favor of Team A? (Where does the old CBA state that teams under the cap cannot complete non-simultaneous trades if they go over the cap before the one-year period is up?)
2. If so, can those two exceptions be combined in a subsequent non-simultaneous trade pursuant to Art VII, Sec 6(h)(2)?

[answerthink]

1. No. The Traded Player Exception is an exception to the salary cap. If a team ends up below the salary cap after a trade, an exception is not needed (and, therefore, a trade exception is not created). Keep in mind that a team whose team salary at any time falls below the salary cap (when including the amounts of all of its exceptions) automatically loses all of its trade exceptions (as per Art VII, Sec 6(k)(1) of the old CBA).

2. Not relevant.

Also note that trade exceptions are only created in favor of the team that trades away more salary than it receives back in return (as long as the team is over the cap, and trades away one player).

[Curmudgeon]

Ok, you've convinced me. But this is a strange twist on the non-simultaneous trade rules. I don't see the reason for the prohibition.