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Question about the "apron"
Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 11:07 pm
by Thugger HBC
Guys, I have a CBA related thread for my guys on the Knicks board and need some clarity on something I can't seem to find....
Since the Knicks are above the "apron" they cannot perform a sign and trade unless that trade takes then under the apron after the trade is made.
Understood.
But what happens next if that task were completed?
Do they have the exceptions a team under the apron would, or are they hardcapped and cannot exceed the apron now?
I'm in belief they have the exceptions, but I cant find the info.
any help would be tremendous.
Re: Question about the "apron"
Posted: Wed May 29, 2013 1:46 am
by answerthink
The restriction on sign-and-trade transactions is only in regards to the acquisition of a signed player. Starting next season, teams can acquire a player in a sign-and-trade only if at the conclusion of the trade and at all times thereafter (for the remainder of the season), the team doesn't exceed the apron.
Teams can use the Bi-annual and Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level Exceptions only if at the time each is utilized and at all times thereafter (for the remainder of the season), the team doesn't exceed the apron (and assuming it hasn’t already used the Taxpayer or Room Mid-Level Exception).
Thus, if the Knicks were to acquire another team’s free agent by means of a sign-and-trade transaction (which presupposes its team salary will be at or below the apron upon its conclusion), it would have access to all three of the above items (assuming all other applicable conditions are met) but would be hard-capped at the apron.
However, if the Knicks were to drop below the apron without having acquired another team’s free agent by means of a sign-and-trade, it would have access to all three of the above items but would not be hard-capped unless it were to utilize one (or more).
Re: Question about the "apron"
Posted: Sat Jun 1, 2013 6:02 pm
by Nanogeek
answerthink wrote:The restriction on sign-and-trade transactions is only in regards to the acquisition of a signed player. Starting next season, teams can acquire a player in a sign-and-trade only if at the conclusion of the trade and at all times thereafter (for the remainder of the season), the team doesn't exceed the apron.
What happens if a player has a career ending injury and retires in Year 1 so his contract comes off the books, that team waives him with 2 years left on his contract (Years 2 and 3) and now the team does a S&T in Year 2 requiring them to be below the apron for the remainder of the season but then the retired player signs with another team in Year 2?
Seems unlikely the league would prevent the retired player from coming back just because of the salary cap impact on the player's former team.
Re: Question about the "apron"
Posted: Mon Jun 3, 2013 1:59 pm
by Panathinaikos
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q61i think the retired player can't sign with another team in Year 2
he must wait another year Year 3
Re: Question about the "apron"
Posted: Mon Jun 3, 2013 9:27 pm
by Nanogeek
Panathinaikos wrote:http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q61
i think the retired player can't sign with another team in Year 2
he must wait another year Year 3
I reviewed Larry's FAQ before posting and didn't see anything that addressed by specific question. I reread the section you linked and still didn't see anything helpful. Can you point to specifically what you think addresses by question in the FAQ?
Re: Question about the "apron"
Posted: Wed Jun 5, 2013 5:19 pm
by Panathinaikos
i think this part explains what happens with the salary of a player that suffers a career ending injury and somehow comes back not exactly the S&T you asked but it's sth
Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player is no longer playing or has retired.
There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is excluded from team salary. This is when a player suffers a career-ending injury or illness. The team must waive the player, and can apply for this salary exclusion on the one-year anniversary of the last game in which the player played1. Only the player's team at the time the injury or illness was discovered (or reasonably should have been discovered) can apply for this salary exclusion.
The determination as to whether an injury or illness is career ending is made by a physician jointly selected by the league and players association. The determination is based on whether the injury or illness will prevent the player from playing for the remainder of his career, or if it is severe enough that continuing to play constitutes a medically unacceptable risk.
If the injury exclusion is granted, the player's salary is removed from the team salary effective:
If the player played 10 or more games1 that season, on the one-year anniversary of the player's last game.
If the player played fewer than 10 games1 that season, 60 days after his last game, or the one-year anniversary of his last game in the previous season, whichever is later.
If the player "proves the doctors wrong" and resumes his career, then his salary is returned to the team salary when he plays in his 25th game1 in any one season, for any team. This allows a player to attempt to resume his career without affecting his previous team unless his comeback is ultimately successful. If the 25th game was a playoff game, then the player's salary is returned to the cap effective on the date of the team's last regular season game (i.e., the returned salary counts toward the luxury tax).
There are a few additional nuances to the salary exclusion:
If the player resumes his career and his salary is returned to the team salary, the team can re-apply for the salary exclusion under the same rules (including the rules for the waiting period).
If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player.
A team cannot apply for this salary exclusion if they have applied for a Disabled Player exception (see question number 25) that season, whether the exception was granted or not.
If this salary exclusion is granted, the team cannot re-sign or re-acquire the player at any time.
This salary exclusion can be used when a player dies while under contract.
1 They count only regular season and playoff games, and do not count preseason games. This was not specified prior to the 2011 CBA. During the 2008-09 season Darius Miles (whose salary was excluded from Portland's cap) played in 10 games for Boston and Memphis (the limit was 10 games at the time), which included preseason games. The league counted the preseason games toward the total, and returned Miles' salary to Portland's cap.
he must play less than 25 games with the new team i think so his previous team doesnt have a problem with the cap

Re: Question about the "apron"
Posted: Wed Jun 5, 2013 5:38 pm
by answerthink
It sounds as if Nanogeek is asking what would happen if a hard-capped team were to exceed the apron due to a contract that has been restored to its team salary because of a long-term injured player proving the doctors wrong. The issue can be compounded if the injured player starts his 25-game trial period after the trade deadline, which would leave the team no options with which to reduce salary (trades would be impermissible, contracts would be guaranteed, stretch provision would provide no relief, etc.).
This is a question I myself have asked. It is a situation that is not covered in the CBA. I was surprised not to see it incorporated into Art VII, Sec 6(m)(3). My guess is that it was never even contemplated. If I get a response that is confirmed by the league, I will post it.
Re: Question about the "apron"
Posted: Sat Jun 8, 2013 10:21 pm
by Nanogeek
answerthink wrote:It sounds as if Nanogeek is asking what would happen if a hard-capped team were to exceed the apron due to a contract that has been restored to its team salary because of a long-term injured player proving the doctors wrong. The issue can be compounded if the injured player starts his 25-game trial period after the trade deadline, which would leave the team no options with which to reduce salary (trades would be impermissible, contracts would be guaranteed, stretch provision would provide no relief, etc.).
This is a question I myself have asked. It is a situation that is not covered in the CBA. I was surprised not to see it incorporated into Art VII, Sec 6(m)(3). My guess is that it was never even contemplated. If I get a response that is confirmed by the league, I will post it.
Thanks for the response. I suppose there will always be situations in these complex rules that they do not contemplate. My guess is they would not preclude the player from rejoining the league and would make some sort of "beyond the team's control" exception to eclipsing the hard cap in such situations.
Re: Question about the "apron"
Posted: Sun Jun 9, 2013 12:33 am
by DBoys
FWIW the use of the medical exception to get a can-no-longer-play player off the cap seems to be dwindling, and with contracts getting shorter and alternate room-clearing tools available like the stretch provision, the odds of this situation arising are probably much more remote than would have been the case in past years.