RealGM

If both teams agree, can protection on picks be changed?
Team A trades player x to team B for their 2017 and 2019 1st round pick unprotected. If Both sides agree could they after the fact add protection to one... Say something like if the 2017 pick is conveyed and is 1-12, then the 2019 is then protected 1-12.....

thanks if anybody can clarify if this is legal under the CBA

brackdan70 wrote:If both teams agree, can protection on picks be changed?
Team A trades player x to team B for their 2017 and 2019 1st round pick unprotected. If Both sides agree could they after the fact add protection to one... Say something like if the 2017 pick is conveyed and is 1-12, then the 2019 is then protected 1-12.....

thanks if anybody can clarify if this is legal under the CBA

I answered this on the Celtics Forum too.

This isn't covered in the CBA. It is covered in the Operations Manual. Unfortunately, the Operations Manual isn't made public.

And it isn't legal. You can't change the terms of an agreed upon deal after it has been executed. They could with another transaction, but at that point, the league may step in as nothing tangible is actually changing hands here. They may be able to actually trade picks, but even that would be pretty heavily scrutinized.

Smitty731 wrote:

brackdan70 wrote:If both teams agree, can protection on picks be changed?
Team A trades player x to team B for their 2017 and 2019 1st round pick unprotected. If Both sides agree could they after the fact add protection to one... Say something like if the 2017 pick is conveyed and is 1-12, then the 2019 is then protected 1-12.....

thanks if anybody can clarify if this is legal under the CBA

I answered this on the Celtics Forum too.

This isn't covered in the CBA. It is covered in the Operations Manual. Unfortunately, the Operations Manual isn't made public.

And it isn't legal. You can't change the terms of an agreed upon deal after it has been executed. They could with another transaction, but at that point, the league may step in as nothing tangible is actually changing hands here. They may be able to actually trade picks, but even that would be pretty heavily scrutinized.

Teams trade their picks with multiple layers of protections on them all the time. The Sixers "owed" their 2nd round pick to like 7 different teams last year. I'm not seeing how this is different, just because it happens to be with the same team both times.

You wouldn't literally make the trade named in the OP. The team allowing the heightened protected would get some sort of consideration in exchange.

Sixerscan wrote:

Smitty731 wrote:

brackdan70 wrote:If both teams agree, can protection on picks be changed?
Team A trades player x to team B for their 2017 and 2019 1st round pick unprotected. If Both sides agree could they after the fact add protection to one... Say something like if the 2017 pick is conveyed and is 1-12, then the 2019 is then protected 1-12.....

thanks if anybody can clarify if this is legal under the CBA

I answered this on the Celtics Forum too.

This isn't covered in the CBA. It is covered in the Operations Manual. Unfortunately, the Operations Manual isn't made public.

And it isn't legal. You can't change the terms of an agreed upon deal after it has been executed. They could with another transaction, but at that point, the league may step in as nothing tangible is actually changing hands here. They may be able to actually trade picks, but even that would be pretty heavily scrutinized.

Teams trade their picks with multiple layers of protections on them all the time. The Sixers "owed" their 2nd round pick to like 7 different teams last year. I'm not seeing how this is different, just because it happens to be with the same team both times.

You wouldn't literally make the trade named in the OP. The team allowing the heightened protected would get some sort of consideration in exchange.

It isn't that it can't be changed. It just has to be changed through another transaction. It can't just be changed by an agreement to change it.

Smitty731 wrote:

Sixerscan wrote:

Smitty731 wrote:
I answered this on the Celtics Forum too.

This isn't covered in the CBA. It is covered in the Operations Manual. Unfortunately, the Operations Manual isn't made public.

And it isn't legal. You can't change the terms of an agreed upon deal after it has been executed. They could with another transaction, but at that point, the league may step in as nothing tangible is actually changing hands here. They may be able to actually trade picks, but even that would be pretty heavily scrutinized.

Teams trade their picks with multiple layers of protections on them all the time. The Sixers "owed" their 2nd round pick to like 7 different teams last year. I'm not seeing how this is different, just because it happens to be with the same team both times.

You wouldn't literally make the trade named in the OP. The team allowing the heightened protected would get some sort of consideration in exchange.

It isn't that it can't be changed. It just has to be changed through another transaction. It can't just be changed by an agreement to change it.

No disagreement on that. That's basic contract law. Just think the formality you are approaching this question with may mislead some people.

Obviously the team getting heightened protection would need to give some consideration, but even more obviously the team allowing the heightened protection isn't just going to allow it out of the kindness of their heart.

The question wasn't really about whether that literal transaction was ok, it was about whether or not if Team A owns Team B's future first round pick, can they trade a protected version of that pick back to Team B. Which they obviously can, provided they jump through the necessary formalities of making a trade.

Sixers, in essence you are talking about a renegotiation of the protection. In theory this would seem to be allowable. But ...

The only instances I recall of anything like this
1 involved 2nd rounders (where the Stepien rule doesn't complicate things) not 1sts
2 the team that gave up a theoretical slice of a 2nd then came back and gave up a different slice later
3 the slice, once traded, was never altered (ie re-sliced) by the recipient

Given the aggressive nature of NBA GMs, I suspect that what we see them do reflects what the limit of the rules would be.

DBoys wrote:Sixers, in essence you are talking about a renegotiation of the protection. In theory this would seem to be allowable. But ...

The only instances I recall of anything like this
1 involved 2nd rounders (where the Stepien rule doesn't complicate things) not 1sts
2 the team that gave up a theoretical slice of a 2nd then came back and gave up a different slice later
3 the slice, once traded, was never altered (ie re-sliced) by the recipient

Given the aggressive nature of NBA GMs, I suspect that what we see them do reflects what the limit of the rules would be.

Well, we're talking about trading someone else's pick here. Which means the Stepien rule doesn't apply (Assuming you have your own pick already)

Regardless, teams have traded multiple layers of 1sts in the past. The Kings just did it with the Sixers earlier this month. If it's 11-30 it goes to Chicago, if it's from 1-10 the Sixers have the option to swap.

The Stepien rule, if you have no other picks, certainly complicates things. The Kings couldn't straight up trade the Sixers their top 10 protected pick this year because of their obligation to the Bulls in 2017. I see no reason why this wouldn't work if the conditional pick was extinguishing that year though.

For example, the Sixers owed the Celtics their 2015 pick if they made the playoffs. Upon not making the playoffs, the obligation changed to 2nds in 15 and 16. With that in mind, the Sixers absolutely could have traded their 2015 pick 15-30 protected.

Trades are getting more complicated every year. Before the Lowry trade no one had ever done reverse protections before. Now they happen every year. See no reason to put a limit on it now.