Knicks creating MAX cap space

[sportscrazy]

Assuming the projected $89 Million salary cap, the Knicks signing a MAX contract free agent would be starting at a first year projected MAX of $25.3 Million, Derrick Williams opts in to his contract and Arron Afflalo opts out.

Salary Cap - $89,000,000

Carmelo Anthony - $24,559,380
Robin Lopez - $13,219,250
Jose Calderon - $7,708,427
Derrick Williams - $4,598,000
Kristaps Porzingis - $4,317,720
Kyle O'Quinn - $3,918,750
Jerian Grant - $1,643,040

Notable Cap Holds

Arron Afflalo - $9,600,000
Langston Galloway - $1,180,431
Cleanthony Early - $1,180,431

Empty Roster Spots ($543,471 multiplied by the number of empty roster spots needed to get to 13 roster spots) - $2,173,884


Knicks 2016 Cap Space - $14,900,687

Salary Needed To Be Created - $10,399,313

A few questions:

1. If the Knicks wanted to stretch BOTH Jose Calderon AND Derrick Williams, is that allowed under the CBA?

2. Would the Knicks be able to go over the cap to sign 2015 second round draft pick Guillermo Hernangomez without a cap hold?

3. Would the Knicks have any cap exceptions in the 2016 off-season?

[Smitty731]

Assuming the projected $89 Million salary cap, the Knicks signing a MAX contract free agent would be starting at a first year projected MAX of $25.3 Million, Derrick Williams opts in to his contract and Arron Afflalo opts out.

Salary Cap - $89,000,000

Carmelo Anthony - $24,559,380
Robin Lopez - $13,219,250
Jose Calderon - $7,708,427
Derrick Williams - $4,598,000
Kristaps Porzingis - $4,317,720
Kyle O'Quinn - $3,918,750
Jerian Grant - $1,643,040

Notable Cap Holds

Arron Afflalo - $9,600,000
Langston Galloway - $1,180,431
Cleanthony Early - $1,180,431

Empty Roster Spots ($543,471 multiplied by the number of empty roster spots needed to get to 13 roster spots) - $2,173,884


Knicks 2016 Cap Space - $14,900,687

Salary Needed To Be Created - $10,399,313

A few questions:

1. If the Knicks wanted to stretch BOTH Jose Calderon AND Derrick Williams, is that allowed under the CBA?

2. Would the Knicks be able to go over the cap to sign 2015 second round draft pick Guillermo Hernangomez without a cap hold?

3. Would the Knicks have any cap exceptions in the 2016 off-season?

1. Yes you can stretch multiple players.

2. Hernangomez has a Cap Hold, but not for Cap Space purposes. But it does count towards the Tax calculations. For purposes of this exercise, it probably doesn't matter. If the Knicks wanted to sign him to a minimum contract, they can do that via the Minimum Exception. If they want to sign him for more, they either need to use space or an Exception.

3. If the Knicks were to drop that far under the Cap, the only Exception they would have is the Room Exception. The Room Exception next summer is $2,898,000.00. You give up all other Exceptions when you go below the Cap by an amount that adding those Exceptions back doesn't bring you back over the Cap. The Room Exception will always be there, until you use it.

[sportscrazy]

Assuming the projected $89 Million salary cap, the Knicks signing a MAX contract free agent would be starting at a first year projected MAX of $25.3 Million, Derrick Williams opts in to his contract and Arron Afflalo opts out.

Salary Cap - $89,000,000

Carmelo Anthony - $24,559,380
Robin Lopez - $13,219,250
Jose Calderon - $7,708,427
Derrick Williams - $4,598,000
Kristaps Porzingis - $4,317,720
Kyle O'Quinn - $3,918,750
Jerian Grant - $1,643,040

Notable Cap Holds

Arron Afflalo - $9,600,000
Langston Galloway - $1,180,431
Cleanthony Early - $1,180,431

Empty Roster Spots ($543,471 multiplied by the number of empty roster spots needed to get to 13 roster spots) - $2,173,884


Knicks 2016 Cap Space - $14,900,687

Salary Needed To Be Created - $10,399,313

A few questions:

1. If the Knicks wanted to stretch BOTH Jose Calderon AND Derrick Williams, is that allowed under the CBA?

2. Would the Knicks be able to go over the cap to sign 2015 second round draft pick Guillermo Hernangomez without a cap hold?

3. Would the Knicks have any cap exceptions in the 2016 off-season?

1. Yes you can stretch multiple players.

2. Hernangomez has a Cap Hold, but not for Cap Space purposes. But it does count towards the Tax calculations. For purposes of this exercise, it probably doesn't matter. If the Knicks wanted to sign him to a minimum contract, they can do that via the Minimum Exception. If they want to sign him for more, they either need to use space or an Exception.

3. If the Knicks were to drop that far under the Cap, the only Exception they would have is the Room Exception. The Room Exception next summer is $2,898,000.00. You give up all other Exceptions when you go below the Cap by an amount that adding those Exceptions back doesn't bring you back over the Cap. The Room Exception will always be there, until you use it.

I think I'm going to start early on my 2016 Mock Off-Season and have three drafts before the final version. The first I will do soon, the second will be after the trade deadline, the third will be after the draft lottery and the final version will be after the NBA Finals. If need be, could I use you as a reference along the way?

[DBoys]

SC "2. Would the Knicks be able to go over the cap to sign 2015 second round draft pick Guillermo Hernangomez without a cap hold?"
S: "2. Hernangomez has a Cap Hold, but not for Cap Space purposes. But it does count towards the Tax calculations."

That is not correct. There is no cap hold of any kind, nor is there any signing exception, for a 2nd round pick. (Nor are there any tax consequences for an unsigned pick.) If a team wants to sign a 2nd rounder, they must either use cap room or use some random exception they otherwise have available. Typically what is used is the Minimum Salary Exception, since a team can use all of those it needs.

So to answer the original question, if the Knicks have no cap room, they would only be able to go over the cap to sign him by using an exception of some kind that permits that size of salary being added to their already-capped player payroll.

[Smitty731]

SC "2. Would the Knicks be able to go over the cap to sign 2015 second round draft pick Guillermo Hernangomez without a cap hold?"
S: "2. Hernangomez has a Cap Hold, but not for Cap Space purposes. But it does count towards the Tax calculations."

That is not correct. There is no cap hold of any kind, nor is there any signing exception, for a 2nd round pick. If a team wants to sign a 2nd rounder, they must either use cap room or use some random exception they otherwise have available. Typically what is used is the Minimum Salary Exception, since a team can use all of those it needs.

So to answer the original question, if the Knicks have no cap room, they can go over the cap to sign him by using an exception of some kind that would permit that salary being added to their already-capped player payroll.

I guess you are right in that they don't call it a Cap Hold, but there is an amount assigned to second round picks for Tax Calculations. So, not really a Cap Hold, but the minimum amount does count against the Tax.

[DBoys]

"there is an amount assigned to second round picks for Tax Calculations. "

No there is not. There are NO tax consequences for players you have not signed.

[Smitty731]

From Q14 in the FAQ:

They use a slightly different calculation for determining the team salary in relation to the apron -- the point $4 million over the tax line. This applies to the Bi-Annual, Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level, and Taxpayer Mid-Level exceptions (see question number 25), and for Sign-and-Trade transactions (see question number 91). For these purposes they use the team salary as defined above, with the following modifications:5

All unlikely bonuses are included for contracts and extensions signed under the current CBA.
Amounts that could be included in team salary as the result of certain grievances are included.
For rookies and players with one year of experience who were signed as free agents (not as draft picks) and whose salary is less than the two-year minimum salary, the two-year minimum salary is used in place of their actual salary.
For the team's restricted free agents, the amount of any outstanding qualifying offer or first refusal exercise notice (both including unlikely bonuses), whichever is greater, are included.
The amount of any required tenders for the team's draft picks is included (80% of the scale salary for first round picks; the rookie minimum salary for second round picks).
Cap holds for free agents are excluded.
Cap holds for first round draft picks are excluded.
Cap holds for the team's outstanding exceptions are excluded.

So the rookie minimum amount is included in Team Salary for the Tax Apron. Maybe I wasn't clear that it is for the Apron and not the Tax itself. Was that the issue?

[DBoys]

"Tax calculation" and "apron calculation" are both done, but NOT the same thing. Nor is the tax limit ever the same number as the apron limit. And the apron is never used to determine taxpaying.

I haven't double-checked the CBA itself to make doubly sure, but I would wager that the unsigned 2nd-rounder tender is not counted on the apron either, in certain situations.

[Smitty731]

"Tax calculation" and "apron calculation" are both done, but NOT the same thing. Nor is the tax limit ever the same number as the apron limit. And the apron is never used to determine taxpaying.

I haven't double-checked the CBA itself to make doubly sure, but I would wager that the unsigned 2nd-rounder tender is not counted on the apron either, in certain situations.

Yeah we agree on the first part. I should have been clear that I meant Tax Apron and not Tax itself.

Last time I looked at the CBA itself for Team Salary, it did call out unsigned tenders as counting towards the Apron.

[DBoys]

Thanks. There are (fairly common for unsigned 2nd-rounders from prior years) circumstances in which the team that drafted him CAN''T sign the player (removing the possibility of him later being added to the cap), so my expectation logically is that there would be no hit on their apron calculation in such a situation. Can happen with unsigned 1st-rounders too, of course, and it works to remove the 1st rounder cap hold (so I expect the apron calculation would follow suit) but most of those #1s sign the year they are drafted. I'll look it up later when I get a chance.

PS - My sense of things is that, in such circumstances, a tender no longer exists, thus making the rule about including the cost of the tender a moot one.

[sportscrazy]

Assuming the projected $89 Million salary cap, the Knicks signing a MAX contract free agent would be starting at a first year projected MAX of $25.3 Million, Derrick Williams opts in to his contract and Arron Afflalo opts out.

Salary Cap - $89,000,000

Carmelo Anthony - $24,559,380
Robin Lopez - $13,219,250
Jose Calderon - $7,708,427
Derrick Williams - $4,598,000
Kristaps Porzingis - $4,317,720
Kyle O'Quinn - $3,918,750
Jerian Grant - $1,643,040

Notable Cap Holds

Arron Afflalo - $9,600,000
Langston Galloway - $1,180,431
Cleanthony Early - $1,180,431

Empty Roster Spots ($543,471 multiplied by the number of empty roster spots needed to get to 13 roster spots) - $2,173,884


Knicks 2016 Cap Space - $14,900,687

Salary Needed To Be Created - $10,399,313

A few questions:

1. If the Knicks wanted to stretch BOTH Jose Calderon AND Derrick Williams, is that allowed under the CBA?

2. Would the Knicks be able to go over the cap to sign 2015 second round draft pick Guillermo Hernangomez without a cap hold?

3. Would the Knicks have any cap exceptions in the 2016 off-season?

1. Yes you can stretch multiple players.

2. Hernangomez has a Cap Hold, but not for Cap Space purposes. But it does count towards the Tax calculations. For purposes of this exercise, it probably doesn't matter. If the Knicks wanted to sign him to a minimum contract, they can do that via the Minimum Exception. If they want to sign him for more, they either need to use space or an Exception.

3. If the Knicks were to drop that far under the Cap, the only Exception they would have is the Room Exception. The Room Exception next summer is $2,898,000.00. You give up all other Exceptions when you go below the Cap by an amount that adding those Exceptions back doesn't bring you back over the Cap. The Room Exception will always be there, until you use it.

Spotrac has Afflalo's cap hold as: Cap Hold $11,625,000

However, when I read the CBA, it says a non-bird free agent's cap hold would be 120% of his previous year's salary. So when I take Afflalo's $8 Million salary and multiply it by 1.2 (or 120%), I get $9.6 Million. However, that is $2 Million less than Spotrac's cap hold. Am I doing something wrong?

[Smitty731]

Spotrac has Afflalo's cap hold as: Cap Hold $11,625,000

However, when I read the CBA, it says a non-bird free agent's cap hold would be 120% of his previous year's salary. So when I take Afflalo's $8 Million salary and multiply it by 1.2 (or 120%), I get $9.6 Million. However, that is $2 Million less than Spotrac's cap hold. Am I doing something wrong?

I have him at $9.6 million too.

[DBoys]

Spotrac has helpful info at times, but it is unreliable which makes it hard to use, because you have to verify so many details and see whether they screwed up or not. This is a case in point.

[Smitty731]

An aside to this is that I stick with Eric Pincus and Basketball Insiders as much as possible if I need to verify against what I have. He's the most timely, and I've found him to be the most accurate.

[ranger001]

There are (fairly common for unsigned 2nd-rounders from prior years) circumstances in which the team that drafted him CAN''T sign the player (removing the possibility of him later being added to the cap)

What would those circumstances be? Wouldn't a team always have at least the minimum exception to use on a 2nd rounder?

[DBoys]

There are (fairly common for unsigned 2nd-rounders from prior years) circumstances in which the team that drafted him CAN''T sign the player (removing the possibility of him later being added to the cap)

What would those circumstances be? Wouldn't a team always have at least the minimum exception to use on a 2nd rounder?

A team CANNOT sign a player, even if a draft pick, who is otherwise under contract outside the NBA. That circumstance would remove the ability to sign him, as would a signed declaration from the team and the as-yet-unsigned draftee that he is not signing in the NBA that season. The fact that the team could offer all the minimum salary deals to whoever it wants would not matter in those situations, since the NBA team can't make an offer.

[sportscrazy]

Spotrac has Afflalo's cap hold as: Cap Hold $11,625,000

However, when I read the CBA, it says a non-bird free agent's cap hold would be 120% of his previous year's salary. So when I take Afflalo's $8 Million salary and multiply it by 1.2 (or 120%), I get $9.6 Million. However, that is $2 Million less than Spotrac's cap hold. Am I doing something wrong?

I have him at $9.6 million too.

Even though the Knicks only had Afflalo for 1 season, if they retain his cap hold, can they then go over the cap to re-sign him once the cap is hit?

[DBoys]

In theory they can do it that way, but it's a pointless cap hold to retain, if a team is operating under the cap.

Such a cap hold
1 is for $X,
2 eats up $X of cap room, and
3 allows you to sign him for a deal of $X or less.

So nothing is gained by having it. Might as well just keep the cap room and use it to sign him, if you wish.

[sportscrazy]

In theory they can do it that way, but it's a pointless cap hold to retain, if a team is operating under the cap.

Such a cap hold
1 is for $X,
2 eats up $X of cap room, and
3 allows you to sign him for a deal of $X or less.

So nothing is gained by having it. Might as well just keep the cap room and use it to sign him, if you wish.

Okay, I just wanted to make sure that was the case.

I know the following scenario doesn't apply to the Knicks with Afflalo, but in general, what if a team under the cap has full bird rights on a free agent? Could they keep his cap hold and then reach the cap in free agency minus said cap hold and go over the cap to make a bigger offer? I know early bird you can't and figured that was the case, but what about full bird?

[DBoys]

Yes. And it works in some EB scenarios too.