Cap holds and free agents: 12 or 13

[statsman]

Regarding the ability to sign free agents with cap space, I have been reading Larry Coon's Salary Cap FAQ for answers. According to Question 14, the following is stated:

A cap hold called an "incomplete roster charge" if the team has fewer than 12 players (players under contract, free agents included in team salary, players given offer sheets, and first round draft picks). This charge is equal to the rookie minimum salary for each player fewer than 12. For example, if there are 11 players included in team salary, then an amount equal to the rookie minimum salary is added to the team salary (5); if the roster is completely empty, then 12 times the rookie minimum salary is added to the team salary. This charge only applies during the offseason.

I read that to mean a teams needs to account for 11 roster cap holds/charges before signing a FA. I then see the link to Footnote 5 which states:

Since teams are required to have at least 13 players on their rosters (see question number 79), the roster charge reserves a minimum amount of cap space to sign 13 players. For example, if a team has 11 players on its roster, the roster charge reserves cap space to sign the team's 13th player, and the remainder can be used to sign the 12th player.

The footnote makes it sound like in order to sign a FA with cap space, you need to have 12 roster cap holds/charges before signing the FA.

There must be something in the fine print I am missing because I cannot resolve those two against each other. Additionally, I have read articles posted in the past couple of weeks that work under both assumptions.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q14

[Smitty731]

So this one took me forever to figure out. I finally took it to multiple cap guys to get clarification.

You add it in a roster charge for ever open roster spot under 12. So, if you have 11 guys, you add in one roster charge.

At this time of especially, it is important to note that Cap Holds for FAs and 1st Round Rookies count towards the 12. That can get confusing at times.

[statsman]

So this one took me forever to figure out. I finally took it to multiple cap guys to get clarification.

You add it in a roster charge for ever open roster spot under 12. So, if you have 11 guys, you add in one roster charge.

At this time of especially, it is important to note that Cap Holds for FAs and 1st Round Rookies count towards the 12. That can get confusing at times.

Let me set up an example with specifics and see if I understand.

Assume a team is looking to sign a FA with cap space.
The team has eight players currently under contract.
The team has one unsigned 1st round draft pick

In order to determine the available cap space, they would need to add two roster charges and the free agent signing becomes the 12th player? Or is it three roster charges and the remainder available for the FA?

Obviously, this can get more confusing if a team has one or more free agents with their own cap holds they wish to retain. But if I understand the answer to the above question, the rest will make sense.

Thank you for your help.

[Smitty731]

So this one took me forever to figure out. I finally took it to multiple cap guys to get clarification.

You add it in a roster charge for ever open roster spot under 12. So, if you have 11 guys, you add in one roster charge.

At this time of especially, it is important to note that Cap Holds for FAs and 1st Round Rookies count towards the 12. That can get confusing at times.

Let me set up an example with specifics and see if I understand.

Assume a team is looking to sign a FA with cap space.
The team has eight players currently under contract.
The team has one unsigned 1st round draft pick

In order to determine the available cap space, they would need to add two roster charges and the free agent signing becomes the 12th player? Or is it three roster charges and the remainder available for the FA?

Obviously, this can get more confusing if a team has one or more free agents with their own cap holds they wish to retain. But if I understand the answer to the above question, the rest will make sense.

Thank you for your help.

The second one. They would have 8 Rostered Players + Cap Hold for the 1st Round Pick + 3 Roster Charges.

[statsman]

So this one took me forever to figure out. I finally took it to multiple cap guys to get clarification.

You add it in a roster charge for ever open roster spot under 12. So, if you have 11 guys, you add in one roster charge.

At this time of especially, it is important to note that Cap Holds for FAs and 1st Round Rookies count towards the 12. That can get confusing at times.

Let me set up an example with specifics and see if I understand.

Assume a team is looking to sign a FA with cap space.
The team has eight players currently under contract.
The team has one unsigned 1st round draft pick

In order to determine the available cap space, they would need to add two roster charges and the free agent signing becomes the 12th player? Or is it three roster charges and the remainder available for the FA?

Obviously, this can get more confusing if a team has one or more free agents with their own cap holds they wish to retain. But if I understand the answer to the above question, the rest will make sense.

Thank you for your help.

The second one. They would have 8 Rostered Players + Cap Hold for the 1st Round Pick + 3 Roster Charges.

Ah, the more restrictive one. So many post the first one as the rule.

Extremely grateful for your help!

[DBoys]

It's more restrictive/confusing than that. If/when you add your 12 together, they cannot and must not equal 94.143. This method is only to determine how much room you have for the next guy. If you are simply figuring cap total and if this set of salaries work, you have to figure the total for 13.

It's a classic blunder. A guy at SI has a touted article re Durant and the GS choices in the wake of signing him, and botched it because he only included 12 salaries in his totals to fit within the 94.143.

[Smitty731]

It's more restrictive/confusing than that. If/when you add your 12 together, they cannot and must not equal 94.143. This method is only to determine how much room you have for the next guy. If you are simply figuring cap total and if this set of salaries work, you have to figure the total for 13.

It's a classic blunder. A guy at SI has a touted article re Durant and the GS choices in the wake of signing him, and botched it because he only included 12 salaries in his totals to fit within the 94.143.

Yeah. This whole concept had me spinning forever. I hate to criticize Larry's FAQ at all, but that is one place where it could be helped with better examples.

[statsman]

It's more restrictive/confusing than that. If/when you add your 12 together, they cannot and must not equal 94.143. This method is only to determine how much room you have for the next guy. If you are simply figuring cap total and if this set of salaries work, you have to figure the total for 13.

It's a classic blunder. A guy at SI has a touted article re Durant and the GS choices in the wake of signing him, and botched it because he only included 12 salaries in his totals to fit within the 94.143.

Actually, how you are describing it was my initial interpretation. Effectively what Larry Coon has in the footnote I quoted above. It was that specific SI article that many were using to argue with me this past week. I sensed something was not right with the article, but I couldn't find consistent information in the Salary Cap FAQ to confirm my belief. Which is why I submitted this thread.

[DBoys]

*The league minimum is 13 players.
*You must fit all 13 slots within 94.143 (not 12).
*The methodology of "cap room left for the last guy" only accounts for 12 slots, since the guy you will sign with the amount calculated to remain will be #13. But by only filling in 12 slots, before seeing how much is left for 13, it causes some confusion.
*GS will still be able to sign KD of course, but their options afterward are more limited than the SI writer knows - and I'm sure GS fans who read him are going to be confused.