RealGM

Which teams are hard capped this summer? Also, is it still the case that those teams cannot do incoming sign and trades?

Nobody starts the year hard capped. So some teams may be hard capped until June 30, once July 1 hits everyone's free.

Teams become hard capped by either adding a player via a sign and trade deal (being the team that the signed player moves to), or else using the full MLE (or any MLE contract over the tax MLE). So it's not that being hard capped means you can't do a S&T deal, but doing a S&T deal makes you hard capped.

giberish wrote:Nobody starts the year hard capped. So some teams may be hard capped until June 30, once July 1 hits everyone's free.

Teams become hard capped by either adding a player via a sign and trade deal (being the team that the signed player moves to), or else using the full MLE (or any MLE contract over the tax MLE). So it's not that being hard capped means you can't do a S&T deal, but doing a S&T deal makes you hard capped.

So every team could make a sign and trade basically?

NYG wrote:

giberish wrote:Nobody starts the year hard capped. So some teams may be hard capped until June 30, once July 1 hits everyone's free.

Teams become hard capped by either adding a player via a sign and trade deal (being the team that the signed player moves to), or else using the full MLE (or any MLE contract over the tax MLE). So it's not that being hard capped means you can't do a S&T deal, but doing a S&T deal makes you hard capped.

So every team could make a sign and trade basically?

Some teams may be already over the apron (where the hard cap would kick in) so they'd have to clear a bunch of salary to then add a player in a S&T and end up under the hard cap (where they'd have to remain the rest of the season). Otherwise yes.

Giberish is right. No team is hard capped yet for 2018-19. WIll they eventually be? That goes in the category of "everything's negotiable" so to speak -- ie, teams make choices as they transition from one NBA year into the next, as well as during free agency, and who knows which choices each will make? You're asking for the outcome for 30 teams, at a time when none have yet to make those choices. We'll find out later.

DBoys wrote:Giberish is right. No team is hard capped yet for 2018-19. WIll they eventually be? That goes in the category of "everything's negotiable" so to speak -- ie, teams make choices as they transition from one NBA year into the next, as well as during free agency, and who knows which choices each will make? You're asking for the outcome for 30 teams, at a time when none have yet to make those choices. We'll find out later.

I guess the proper answer I was looking for is teams over the apron after a sign and trade are not allowed to make said incoming sign and trade?

NYG wrote:

DBoys wrote:Giberish is right. No team is hard capped yet for 2018-19. WIll they eventually be? That goes in the category of "everything's negotiable" so to speak -- ie, teams make choices as they transition from one NBA year into the next, as well as during free agency, and who knows which choices each will make? You're asking for the outcome for 30 teams, at a time when none have yet to make those choices. We'll find out later.

I guess the proper answer I was looking for is teams over the apron after a sign and trade are not allowed to make said incoming sign and trade?

They would not be able to exceed the apron to make the sign and trade. All calculations are done post-deal. So, the deal would be denied by the league office as a violation of the CBA.

Also, to make it very simple, once a team is hard capped, they can't exceed this by even $1.00. This came up with the Clippers a couple of years ago when they couldn't afford a 10 Day Contract due to being hard capped. They eventually worked a trade to dump some salary, but it was a problem they had to work around.

Smitty731 wrote:

NYG wrote:

DBoys wrote:Giberish is right. No team is hard capped yet for 2018-19. WIll they eventually be? That goes in the category of "everything's negotiable" so to speak -- ie, teams make choices as they transition from one NBA year into the next, as well as during free agency, and who knows which choices each will make? You're asking for the outcome for 30 teams, at a time when none have yet to make those choices. We'll find out later.

I guess the proper answer I was looking for is teams over the apron after a sign and trade are not allowed to make said incoming sign and trade?

They would not be able to exceed the apron to make the sign and trade. All calculations are done post-deal. So, the deal would be denied by the league office as a violation of the CBA.

Also, to make it very simple, once a team is hard capped, they can't exceed this by even $1.00. This came up with the Clippers a couple of years ago when they couldn't afford a 10 Day Contract due to being hard capped. They eventually worked a trade to dump some salary, but it was a problem they had to work around.

Based on the capulator, cap holds don’t count against the tax apron. Since this is the case, the Rockets could do a sign and trade for LeBron since they won’t be above the apron post-deal?

And then re-sign every one?

NYG wrote:Based on the capulator, cap holds don’t count against the tax apron. Since this is the case, the Rockets could do a sign and trade for LeBron since they won’t be above the apron post-deal?

And then re-sign every one?

No. Cap holds count until the free agent is re-signed (new salary counts against cap) or renounced. If renounced, they can only be re-signed with cap space or an exception.

NYG wrote:

Smitty731 wrote:

NYG wrote:
I guess the proper answer I was looking for is teams over the apron after a sign and trade are not allowed to make said incoming sign and trade?

They would not be able to exceed the apron to make the sign and trade. All calculations are done post-deal. So, the deal would be denied by the league office as a violation of the CBA.

Also, to make it very simple, once a team is hard capped, they can't exceed this by even $1.00. This came up with the Clippers a couple of years ago when they couldn't afford a 10 Day Contract due to being hard capped. They eventually worked a trade to dump some salary, but it was a problem they had to work around.

Based on the capulator, cap holds don’t count against the tax apron. Since this is the case, the Rockets could do a sign and trade for LeBron since they won’t be above the apron post-deal?

And then re-sign every one?

They could do a S&T for LeBron since they won't be above the apron post deal.

Once they make the S&T deal they're hard-capped for the rest of the season. So resigning guys becomes a major problem. Bird rights don't allow you to get around the hard cap. If guys are willing to resign on vet min deals they could probably make it work (depending on details).

giberish wrote:

NYG wrote:

Smitty731 wrote:
They would not be able to exceed the apron to make the sign and trade. All calculations are done post-deal. So, the deal would be denied by the league office as a violation of the CBA.

Also, to make it very simple, once a team is hard capped, they can't exceed this by even $1.00. This came up with the Clippers a couple of years ago when they couldn't afford a 10 Day Contract due to being hard capped. They eventually worked a trade to dump some salary, but it was a problem they had to work around.

Based on the capulator, cap holds don’t count against the tax apron. Since this is the case, the Rockets could do a sign and trade for LeBron since they won’t be above the apron post-deal?

And then re-sign every one?

They could do a S&T for LeBron since they won't be above the apron post deal.

Once they make the S&T deal they're hard-capped for the rest of the season. So resigning guys becomes a major problem. Bird rights don't allow you to get around the hard cap. If guys are willing to resign on vet min deals they could probably make it work (depending on details).

This is different in an opt in and trade though if i understand correctly. Is that right?

woosah wrote:

giberish wrote:

NYG wrote:
Based on the capulator, cap holds don’t count against the tax apron. Since this is the case, the Rockets could do a sign and trade for LeBron since they won’t be above the apron post-deal?

And then re-sign every one?

They could do a S&T for LeBron since they won't be above the apron post deal.

Once they make the S&T deal they're hard-capped for the rest of the season. So resigning guys becomes a major problem. Bird rights don't allow you to get around the hard cap. If guys are willing to resign on vet min deals they could probably make it work (depending on details).

This is different in an opt in and trade though if i understand correctly. Is that right?

Correct. An opt-in and trade works as just a normal trade. It doesn't hard-cap a team.

It's really the only plausible way of getting LeBron to Houston. Then there's the question of whether a deal with Anderson going out can be made, or whether Houston would have to do a Gordon/Tucker/several more filler guys deal. That's more of a trade board topic though.

giberish wrote:

woosah wrote:

giberish wrote:
They could do a S&T for LeBron since they won't be above the apron post deal.

Once they make the S&T deal they're hard-capped for the rest of the season. So resigning guys becomes a major problem. Bird rights don't allow you to get around the hard cap. If guys are willing to resign on vet min deals they could probably make it work (depending on details).

This is different in an opt in and trade though if i understand correctly. Is that right?

Correct. An opt-in and trade works as just a normal trade. It doesn't hard-cap a team.

It's really the only plausible way of getting LeBron to Houston. Then there's the question of whether a deal with Anderson going out can be made, or whether Houston would have to do a Gordon/Tucker/several more filler guys deal. That's more of a trade board topic though.

Thanks. Just trying to see what the options are but it seems if he doesn't opt in then it pretty much means he is going to LA because the other places would be much harder to get to with a S&T because it puts the hard cap onto the team and some exceptions can't be used to fill out the team based on what i was reading earlier in the cba faq.

Smitty731 wrote:

NYG wrote:

DBoys wrote:Giberish is right. No team is hard capped yet for 2018-19. WIll they eventually be? That goes in the category of "everything's negotiable" so to speak -- ie, teams make choices as they transition from one NBA year into the next, as well as during free agency, and who knows which choices each will make? You're asking for the outcome for 30 teams, at a time when none have yet to make those choices. We'll find out later.

I guess the proper answer I was looking for is teams over the apron after a sign and trade are not allowed to make said incoming sign and trade?

They would not be able to exceed the apron to make the sign and trade. All calculations are done post-deal. So, the deal would be denied by the league office as a violation of the CBA.

Also, to make it very simple, once a team is hard capped, they can't exceed this by even $1.00. This came up with the Clippers a couple of years ago when they couldn't afford a 10 Day Contract due to being hard capped. They eventually worked a trade to dump some salary, but it was a problem they had to work around.

One more question not worthy of its own thread.

If the Rockets were to get under the luxury tax, could they sign and trade for LeBron as long as they weren't over the luxury tax after the trade and then exceed the luxury tax as long as they didn't exceed the apron from there?