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Is a S&T with Wally Szczerbiak possible???
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:53 am
by LeQuitterNotMVP
As a fan of the Cavs, I want to know if the Cavs are able to S&T Wally Szczerbiak so they would be able to take on more salary in a trade. (It would be a 3-year deal worth $10+ million per season with the last 2 years not being guaranteed. I imagine Wally would take the money and run.)
So, I want to know if this would be possible. The Cavs are obviously over the cap, but I believe that we would have Wally's bird's rights. On the Cavs' team board, some members say we do have his bird's rights, while some say we don't.
According to Larry Coon:
Larry Coon wrote:LARRY BIRD EXCEPTION -- This is the best known one. Players who qualify for this exception are called "Qualifying Veteran Free Agents" in the CBA, and this exception is a component of the Veteran Free Agent exception. This exception allows teams to exceed the salary cap to re-sign their own free agents, up to the player's maximum salary. The player essentially must play for three seasons without being waived or changing teams as a free agent. This means a player can obtain "Bird rights" by playing under three one-year contracts, a single contract of at least three years, or any combination. It also means that when a player is traded, his Bird rights are traded with him, and his new team can use the Bird exception to re-sign him. These contracts can be up to six years in length. A player can receive raises up to 10.5% of the salary in the first season of the contract. This exception is known as the Larry Bird exception because the Celtics were the first team allowed to exceed the cap to keep their own free agent, and the player happened to be Bird.
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htmSo, I'm not sure why we wouldn't have his bird's rights. Anyway, if someone could just clear this up for me, that would be great! Thanks!
Re: Is a S&T with Wally Szczerbiak possible???
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:11 am
by Three34
You do have his Bird rights and it's absolutely possible. But bear in mind that signing and trading someone like that to something waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay above what they actually deserve is largely unprecedented. The list of people it's happened to basically starts and ends with Keith Van Horn. But yes, it's possible.
Re: Is a S&T with Wally Szczerbiak possible???
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:11 am
by LeQuitterNotMVP
Sham wrote:You do have his Bird rights and it's absolutely possible. But bear in mind that signing and trading someone like that to something waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay above what they actually deserve is largely unprecedented. The list of people it's happened to basically starts and ends with Keith Van Horn. But yes, it's possible.
Thanks. I also think that teams wouldn't mind as long as the contract would be unguaranteed the final two seasons.
Now the Cavs have to figure this out and take advantage of it!
Re: Is a S&T with Wally Szczerbiak possible???
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:40 am
by bcortell
Are we able to S&T Wally with an unguaranteed contract? Like we sign him for 13 mil but only 2 mil guaranteed, then trade him to Washington for Jamison, MJ, and #5. They then buy him out for only 2 mil. Is that possible?
Re: Is a S&T with Wally Szczerbiak possible???
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:44 am
by LeQuitterNotMVP
bcortell wrote:Are we able to S&T Wally with an unguaranteed contract? Like we sign him for 13 mil but only 2 mil guaranteed, then trade him to Washington for Jamison, MJ, and #5. They then buy him out for only 2 mil. Is that possible?
As I mentioned in the thread on the Cavs' board, the first year has to be guaranteed.
Re: Is a S&T with Wally Szczerbiak possible???
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:41 am
by bcortell
LBJ4MVP23 wrote:bcortell wrote:Are we able to S&T Wally with an unguaranteed contract? Like we sign him for 13 mil but only 2 mil guaranteed, then trade him to Washington for Jamison, MJ, and #5. They then buy him out for only 2 mil. Is that possible?
As I mentioned in the thread on the Cavs' board, the first year has to be guaranteed.
Thanks for the input. What happened with KVH's contract then?
Re: Is a S&T with Wally Szczerbiak possible???
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:05 am
by Dunkenstein
Van Horn got $4.2M basically for showing up at the Nets practice facility for a couple of weeks after the trade last season and then he quietly returned home to Utah. He was then waived last summer since the final two years of his contract were non guaranteed.
Re: Is a S&T with Wally Szczerbiak possible???
Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:39 am
by Scoot McGroot
First, you gotta find someone willing to pay Wally more than $2 million.
That might be pretty tough. Even if he's not-guaranteed the rest of the way. That's an awful lot to include on the salary cap, and it'd take an awful lot of salary dump (like Curry and Jeffries) or an awful lot of value included to make a deal interesting.
Re: Is a S&T with Wally Szczerbiak possible???
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:14 am
by chakdaddy
bcortell wrote:Are we able to S&T Wally with an unguaranteed contract? Like we sign him for 13 mil but only 2 mil guaranteed, then trade him to Washington for Jamison, MJ, and #5. They then buy him out for only 2 mil. Is that possible?
Only if Washington prefers a "pseudo-expiring" contract in Wally to the package they already have of a real expiring contract in James, a lottery pick and desirable player with a fairly resaonable salary in Jamison...
Basically, it can be done, but teams aren't necessarily going to manufacture a sign and trade and take Wally just so they can lose their FA to Cleveland rather than to a different team that has cap room...
Re: Is a S&T with Wally Szczerbiak possible???
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:21 am
by Modern_epic
As has already been said, no, it can't be done with a "pseudo-expiring contract". The first year needs to be fully guaranteed.
Re: Is a S&T with Wally Szczerbiak possible???
Posted: Wed Jul 1, 2009 4:13 pm
by tekkon
Can you sign Wally, trade him and have the other team buy him out of his contract?
Re: Is a S&T with Wally Szczerbiak possible???
Posted: Wed Jul 1, 2009 4:38 pm
by bgwizarfan
tekkon wrote:Can you sign Wally, trade him and have the other team buy him out of his contract?
yes but that would be dumb. Wally would NEVER accept that. He's already taking a semi-buyout by making just the 1st year guaranteed. What would happen is they'd sign and trade him for a 3 year contract, and only the 1st year would be guaranteed. They'd then either waive him and eat his salary or keep him for the year and then probably waive him. The chances of him accepting a buy-out would be next to 0 i'd imagine
Re: Is a S&T with Wally Szczerbiak possible???
Posted: Wed Jul 1, 2009 8:54 pm
by Dunkenstein
Is a buyout of the first year of a one-year guaranteed s&t contract even legal?
Re: Is a S&T with Wally Szczerbiak possible???
Posted: Wed Jul 1, 2009 10:37 pm
by Modern_epic
Technically? As long as it can't be proven to be pre-arranged, I don't see why not. But if it wasn't something along the lines of the Fisher situation, Stern would almost assuredly slap it down.
Re: Is a S&T with Wally Szczerbiak possible???
Posted: Wed Jul 1, 2009 11:14 pm
by bstein14
Most likely a team who wants to rid themselves of a longterm contract would take him...
Or possibly someone wanting him simply to reduce salary
Wally + $3 million cash to a team like Charlotte for Chandler or LAC for Baron Davis.
Re: Is a S&T with Wally Szczerbiak possible???
Posted: Wed Jul 1, 2009 11:16 pm
by Three34
You just overpaid Ben Gordon, BTW. But I'll tell you this one thing - he's good. A lot better than most Piston fans think. Just not as good as Joe Dumars thinks, is all.
Re: Is a S&T with Wally Szczerbiak possible???
Posted: Wed Jul 1, 2009 11:21 pm
by bstein14
We don't know for sure how much he's getting paid
Hopefully only $50 mil is guaranteed and $5 mil is performance based incentives.
Re: Is a S&T with Wally Szczerbiak possible???
Posted: Wed Jul 1, 2009 11:25 pm
by Three34
Well, you hope. But the boy is not a playbreaker, as everyone seems to think he is (well, sometimes, but not often), and he's a fantastically good shot maker. The only ones better than him at it are elite players. Dude can hit anything, as long as it's not a layup.