RealGM

Just wondering if any trade exceptions were "created" in this trade. Bulls had the exception from Thabo. Did the hornets have any TE?

So like if the trade was Brown using Thabo's trade exception, would the other half be Gray for "nothing", this creating an additional trade exception. That is unless of course the Hornets had a trade exception, and the trade could just be Bulls TE for Brown, and Hornets TE for Gray.

Or is just Brown and Gray straight up which creates no new TE and uses no old ones?

Also, if the Bulls did generate a TE, and then end up under the salary cap in the offseason, can they use that TE to go over the cap, or are they stuck under the cap and can't use the TE?

To the first question, each team had TPEs going into the trade and it could have been done that way...all it really means is "re-setting the clock" and the "new TPEs" last a year from the date of the trade. Which is a fine way to do it.

To the second question, the TPE actually counts against the Bulls' cap. So if they want to sign a player from another team and have, say, $15M in capspace, they could actually only offer $14M since the last $1M or so is occupied by the TPE. They would have to renounce the TPE in such an instance if they wanted to offer the full $15M.

I wonder if this is the first time two colors, both earth tones, were traded straight up for each other...

chakdaddy wrote:I wonder if this is the first time two colors, both earth tones, were traded straight up for each other...

I don't know. But it should be noted that Jeff Green and D.J. White both play forward for the Thunder. And for a short time Gray was on the Hornets roster with Bobby Brown, before Brown was moved to the Clippers.

Blue Edwards was once traded for Ed Pinckney. Does that count?

Sham wrote:Blue Edwards was once traded for Ed Pinckney. Does that count?

Once you mix in random body parts, it's changes the whole thing.

loserX wrote:To the first question, each team had TPEs going into the trade and it could have been done that way...all it really means is "re-setting the clock" and the "new TPEs" last a year from the date of the trade. Which is a fine way to do it.

To the second question, the TPE actually counts against the Bulls' cap. So if they want to sign a player from another team and have, say, $15M in capspace, they could actually only offer $14M since the last $1M or so is occupied by the TPE. They would have to renounce the TPE in such an instance if they wanted to offer the full $15M.

Good to know about the TPE's counting against the cap. Did not know that.

As for the first part, just so I'm clear, the teams didn't structure the deal using the existing TPE's, and it was just Brown for Gray straight up, or we don't know what they did? (but they could have done it either way).

Friend_Of_Haley wrote:

loserX wrote:To the first question, each team had TPEs going into the trade and it could have been done that way...all it really means is "re-setting the clock" and the "new TPEs" last a year from the date of the trade. Which is a fine way to do it.

To the second question, the TPE actually counts against the Bulls' cap. So if they want to sign a player from another team and have, say, $15M in capspace, they could actually only offer $14M since the last $1M or so is occupied by the TPE. They would have to renounce the TPE in such an instance if they wanted to offer the full $15M.

Good to know about the TPE's counting against the cap. Did not know that.

As for the first part, just so I'm clear, the teams didn't structure the deal using the existing TPE's, and it was just Brown for Gray straight up, or we don't know what they did? (but they could have done it either way).

Well, we don't actually know what they did (at least I don't), but I'm sure they used the existing TPEs so that they got new TPEs post-trade that last another year. There is no benefit to doing it the other way, which would be swapping the players and letting those old TPEs rot.

The explanation offered above needs a bit of updating. Teams cannot refresh trade exceptions they generate. In this situation, both sides had trade exceptions large enough to accommodate their acquired players. However, given this deal could have been completed without either side using theirs, neither side likely did.

Trade exceptions (and all other exceptions) only count against a team’s cap if the team is under the salary cap, and only to the extent that they put the team over the salary cap. If the combined value of all traded player, disabled player, mid-level and bi-annual exceptions available to a team don’t put the team over the cap, the team loses them all. In simple terms, if a team utilizes cap space to sign a player it cannot then use any of its trade exceptions.

answerthink wrote:The explanation offered above needs a bit of updating. Teams cannot refresh trade exceptions they generate. In this situation, both sides had trade exceptions large enough to accommodate their acquired players. However, given this deal could have been completed without either side using theirs, neither side likely did.

I suspect the above is probably an inaccurate analysis of this situation.

As fleshed out by others here, both teams had every reason to use their existing TPEs (before they expired) in this trade and probably no reason not to ... so they would have done so. Once they did, they would have then received a brand new one for the full amount of the player traded away...thereby effectively "refreshing" their TPE in practice even if technically it was a substitution whereby an old one was used and a new one was born.

The Bulls will almost certainly be utilizing cap space this offseason and any trade exceptions they have at that time will be lost, so the structure they choose may not matter much ultimately. They could either keep their existing $1.9 million trade exception that expires after this season’s trade deadline or replace it with a $760k exception that expires after this season’s trade deadline and a $1.0 million exception that expires next February (but will likely be lost in the offseason).

It appears the Hornets have a $902k trade exception from the Tyson Chandler trade. I imagine they would have used it to acquire Gray, and produced a new $1.2 million trade exception from trading away Brown.

answerthink wrote:The Bulls will almost certainly be utilizing cap space this offseason and any trade exceptions they have at that time will be lost, so the structure they choose may not matter much ultimately. They could either keep their existing $1.9 million trade exception that expires after this season’s trade deadline or replace it with a $760k exception that expires after this season’s trade deadline and a $1.0 million exception that expires next February (but will likely be lost in the offseason).

It appears the Hornets have a $902k trade exception from the Tyson Chandler trade. I imagine they would have used it to acquire Gray, and produced a new $1.2 million trade exception from trading away Brown.

^^THIS makes way more sense than your earlier analysis. And while we can look ahead and assume the Bulls will use cap space and renounce TPEs this coming offseason, until it actually happens they can always opt to go the other direction and play the "over the cap" game (keeping TPEs) if it becomes more advantageous.