RealGM

There is a constant lie that has been said hundreds of times on this site's forums and it has now become accepted as a fact. This lie is that "Ricky Rubio led the Euroleague in steals" or the new one that "Rubio was the official Euroleague regular season steals leader".

Well guess what? There is no such thing as a regular season stats leader being recognized by the Euroleague. It simply does not exist. If you lead the Euroleague in a regular season category you do not ever get counted or listed as having led the Euroleague in any stat categories. There is no such thing as a regular season stat leader.

The Euroleague regular season is ten games long. I repeat ten games long. The league does not count anyone leading that stage of the season as a stat leader. The Euroleague lists stats for each stage of the season. I repeat each stage of the season. Go to the Euroleague's official website and you will see that every stage of the season has separate stats. Those stats and the leaders in those categories are not "league leaders".

That would be like going to NBA.com's splits stats section and saying that November's or December's stat leaders were the season stat leaders - as in the one's who led the league. The Euroleague stat leaders have only one category, which is the SEASON stat leaders. That is it. There is no such thing as regular season stat leaders. Just like there is no such thing as top 16 stat leaders or playoff stat leaders, etc. There is no such thing as final four stat leaders, etc. And yes each one of those stages has a separate stats section. That means nothing. Does anyone actually believe that the Euroleague has 4 or 5 different leaders for each stat for the year? I mean how absurd and ridiculous this lie really is.

There are only FULL SEASON stat leaders. Now you can go to the Euroleague website and see the season stat leaders and those are the category leaders. Also, in the Euroleague's list of league leaders there is never listed a regular season stat leader.

Ricky Rubio was officially not the league leader in steals. It was Pablo Prigioni. And there is no such thing as a regular season stat leader in the Euroleague. That does not exist. So is there a reason why this huge myth and lie that Rubio led the Euroleague in steals (a lie) and/or that the Euroleague leader in stats categories is the regular season leader and not the full season one (another lie) is allowed on this forum for so long now?

To even point out this is a lie and false and officially untrue according to the Euroleague itself, you get attacked by other posters even a mod here vigorously defends the myth. So if this sort of blatant and outright lie about Rubio is allowed, then would it also be allowed to make up any lie about who leads the NBA in stats? If someone kept posting dozens of times a lie about the league leaders in the NBA would that also be allowed? Would it be allowed to then attack anyone that pointed out you were lying? Would mods defend your lies? Would something like "Chris Duhon led the NBA in assists" repeated dozens of times over and over again by numerous posters be accepted as a fact and defended by other posters and even a mod? Would anyone saying that was not true be attacked by other members? Somehow I doubt it. Basically, I would assume that the posters doing that would probably be suspended or banned.

I would just like to know what the site policy of the mods is on such outright lies as this? It would be greatly appreciated if the mods would explain this. Because the TRUTH is that this lie is now taken as a simple true fact by all Americans on these forums. I would assume that the mods here would appreciate to actually know the truth on this and that many posters here are purposely making up lies to distort how the forum views certain players. I would assume that would be considered site trolling.

But if I am wrong and such actions are perfectly acceptable and allowed and welcomed here then I would really appreciate it if the mods could explain that. And not just the one mod who also agrees with the myth himself, I assume out of ignorance of the subject, having been presumably tricked by these other posters. This is the main reason I think this type of thing should not be allowed on the site. If the site disagrees and has no problem with this then I will not waste my time arguing about it (trying to get the truth out to members that don't know better) anymore when someone states the lie on the site. But I would still like to know if it is also acceptable then to make up the same lies about the NBA's stats leaders? So clarification on this issue would be very greatly appreciated. Because it is really quite rude when someone states this lie on the forums, I then point out it is not true, and I then get attacked by the same people making up the lie. Thanks to the mods that can help with this in advance.

Well, your point might be true, but he is still a damn fine hispanic player.

rofl

Bring it to the Euroleague board.

He led the euroleague in steals in the regular season, in 2006-7- this is recognized by euroleague's stat keepers here:

http://www.euroleague.net/main/statisti ... dlTopics=3

What people are doing are misrepresenting a fact- he did not lead the league in general because he does not qualify because of not enough games played.

It does not qualify as trolling to simply misremember or misunderstand statistics. If you come across errors like this, you are free to correct people. However, they are not knowingly attempting to lie about this statistic, or simply do not see a distinction due to games played.

It doesn't matter that euroleague does not recognize his steals in the statistics to a lot of people. His per game averages top Prigioni's, and that matters more to people than whether the league recognizes it due to the number of games played.

BrooklynBulls wrote:It does not qualify as trolling to simply misremember or misunderstand statistics. If you come across errors like this, you are free to correct people. However, they are not knowingly attempting to lie about this statistic, or simply do not see a distinction due to games played.

KWSN-Men:

This particular part by Brooklyn is what you need to keep your eye on. Euroleague and the NBA have different ways of measuring stats, and so it's only natural that some people will misunderstand these measurements sometimes. So I'll second Brooklyn's opinion about it being fine for you to correct them, but please acknowledge the fact that they are not intentionally trying to print false stats.

My advice: Relax, chill. Don't take it that seriously. RealGM is a place to discuss sports, and you can litteraly find thousands of different subjects on the boards. If one particular subject isn't living up to your expectations, you are most certainly free to join other debates. In fact, I strongly recommend that you do.

BrooklynBulls wrote:He led the euroleague in steals in the regular season, in 2006-7- this is recognized by euroleague's stat keepers here:

http://www.euroleague.net/main/statisti ... dlTopics=3

What people are doing are misrepresenting a fact- he did not lead the league in general because he does not qualify because of not enough games played.

It does not qualify as trolling to simply misremember or misunderstand statistics. If you come across errors like this, you are free to correct people. However, they are not knowingly attempting to lie about this statistic, or simply do not see a distinction due to games played.

It doesn't matter that euroleague does not recognize his steals in the statistics to a lot of people. His per game averages top Prigioni's, and that matters more to people than whether the league recognizes it due to the number of games played.

OK, so you recognize and understand these posters are in error. My question then is why if I point out the error, am I automatically attacked in a rude way and it is made like I am lying. It seems that to me, almost only European fans are the ones starting these arguments and they should all know that they are wrong. It seems like they are on purpose trying to distort how Americans view Rubio.

Morten Jensen wrote:

BrooklynBulls wrote:It does not qualify as trolling to simply misremember or misunderstand statistics. If you come across errors like this, you are free to correct people. However, they are not knowingly attempting to lie about this statistic, or simply do not see a distinction due to games played.

KWSN-Men:

This particular part by Brooklyn is what you need to keep your eye on. Euroleague and the NBA have different ways of measuring stats, and so it's only natural that some people will misunderstand these measurements sometimes. So I'll second Brooklyn's opinion about it being fine for you to correct them, but please acknowledge the fact that they are not intentionally trying to print false stats.

My advice: Relax, chill. Don't take it that seriously. RealGM is a place to discuss sports, and you can litteraly find thousands of different subjects on the boards. If one particular subject isn't living up to your expectations, you are most certainly free to join other debates. In fact, I strongly recommend that you do.

Hey I agree totally with that. But that's the thing that annoys me is that it is almost entirely members that say they are from Europe that are doing this. And I know some of these posters from other posts they make, that they know perfectly well how the stats work and that they are being dishonest. It's some sort of way to manipulate how Americans view some European players.

KWSN-Men wrote:
OK, so you recognize and understand these posters are in error. My question then is why if I point out the error, am I automatically attacked in a rude way and it is made like I am lying. It seems that to me, almost only European fans are the ones starting these arguments and they should all know that they are wrong. It seems like they are on purpose trying to distort how Americans view Rubio.

You not only point out the error, but you sometimes do so in an accusatory manner. Whenever you do that, you can expect an angry post back. If you would like the correct statistic to be prevalent, simply point to the link, say- the above information is not correct, here are the stats for you to look at yourselves. Then do not respond to posts that are angry and accusatory. Report them if they violate the TOS, or simply ignore them if you feel the argument will escalate.

KWSN-Men wrote:Hey I agree totally with that. But that's the thing that annoys me is that it is almost entirely members that say they are from Europe that are doing this. And I know some of these posters from other posts they make, that they know perfectly well how the stats work and that they are being dishonest. It's some sort of way to manipulate how Americans view some European players.

I'm European, and I have difficulty understanding the break-down of Euroleague statistics compared to the NBA's. So I wouldn't say being European makes one understand Euroleague stats better.

KWSN-Men wrote:OK, so you recognize and understand these posters are in error. My question then is why if I point out the error, am I automatically attacked in a rude way and it is made like I am lying. It seems that to me, almost only European fans are the ones starting these arguments and they should all know that they are wrong. It seems like they are on purpose trying to distort how Americans view Rubio.

It's because of your arrogant holier-than-thou attitude.

This thread is equivalent of me complaining that Howard Mass posts pads when all he writes is 'Done' in the Name Change Request Thread.

I think there are bigger issues that a doctor can help with though.

Numbers and the technicalities associated with them are extremely difficult to communicate. It is often tedious and counter intuitive. It requires a great deal of patience, persistence, and tact. The most powerful tool available to a poster trying to convey numbers, or, really any other idea, is their own personal credibility. Does the audience respect you? Do they believe that you are being honest and open about what you know, what you think, and what you don't know?

In an environment where your goal is to get people to listen to you, being "right" is simply not enough. The message is not just the content, but it's the package and the messenger, as well.

As an illustration, there are many different ways that you can approach correcting the apparently erroneous statement, "Ricky Rubio led the Euroleague in steals." Here are two:

I wanted to make a clarification about Ricky Rubio and his status as "steals leader" in the Euroleague. This isn't actually an accurate statement for (insert reasons A, B, C). A better way to look at it is (D, E, or F). The confusion is understandable because (different leagues, different standards, etc., etc.)

or

Ricky Rubio did not lead the Euroleague in steals, and so-and-so is a liar for saying so.

The first will be received much more readily than the second. The second is nothing more than an ad hominem attack that has absolutely no value.

It is true that there will be posters who will reject anything that doesn't agree with their worldview, or what they want to believe, but I consider these nothing more than to be a vocal minority. These are the nuisances that are not worth taking seriously.

However, the serious posters, the ones like Brooklyn Bulls & Morten Jensen will listen to opposing view points, and they will happily accept corrections, if it is offered in the spirit of advancing the conversation. It is crucial that you recognize that this is, in fact, a conversation. It is not a test. It is not negotiating peace in the Middle East. The opinions and the conjecture will always outnumber the facts by a pretty substantial margin. All posters must remember that how they treat other posters is at least as (if not more) important than any strict information they bring to the discussion.

Here's the deal: You are the only person who can enhance or diminish your own credibility.

If there's one basic rule on internet forums, it's that. The only reason that I am taken seriously at all in any of the forums I post on is because I have credibility among the community. I have worked very hard at developing it, and God knows, it certainly wasn't because I was right all the time. It was because I was diligent and honest all the time...or at least I tried my utmost to be.

I will tell you that I am thoroughly unimpressed by what I see in this thread and in some of your history here. Right now, you seem to be a lot closer to being a nuisance than a victim. I find it reprehensible to make blanket accusations of lying in a situation where it is far more likely an inaccuracy or misunderstanding. Such a casual sin reflects far more negatively on you and your character than it does on any of the accused.

You, yourself, have created the sorry situation in which you find yourself, and this cry and hue about injustice only digs your hole deeper.

That being said, the ball is in your court. If you conduct yourself as a decent, courteous human being...if you become a productive member of the conversation, instead of a lightning rod for controversy...if you establish yourself as an honest purveyor of information and knowledge that enhances the board...I guarantee the the mods and the serious posters will first, accept you, then welcome you, and then embrace you as part of the community.

This is the exact same standard that is applied to all other posters beginning with their first post. Yes, it will be harder for you, but it will be harder because of issues and problems that you, yourself created. Therefore, these are issues and problems that only you, yourself can begin to fix. You make an honest effort, and the mods and leaders of the boards where you post will support you.

Otherwise, it's simply a waste of everyone's time.

Great post count55.

KWSN-Men, you complain about other posters' attitude towards you however you dont seem to realize that their reactions basically mirror the nature of your actions. Once you learn how to communicate properly without calling people as "liars" , "classic american fan who doesnt know anything about European Leagues" for simply misinterpreting a statistic due to different procedures between Euroleague and NBA (cumulative vs. per game averages) in determining the leader in any statistical category,then you wont have these problems anymore. I hope you soon realize that otherwise I dont see you surviving in these boards or in any other online community with this type of behavior.

Moreover if you want to have any kind of credibility around here, you may start using a new username instead of taking the exact username of a reputable poster in interbasket forums with whom you apparently had some troubles in the past. Quite honestly I dont understand your motivation in doing so and I can certainly assure you that it diminishes whatever credibility you have/might have around these forums.

Furthermore dropping the "hollier than thou" attitude would certainly result posters being more interested into the content of your actual post (if delivered properly).

Simply put, consider the other posts as minor presentations of other posters. And if you appreach someone after a presentation and say that "He is a(n) liar/ignorant" for misinterpreting a statistic then you sure wont change his mind plus you will get into a screaming match with him. And even if you are right about that particular subject, the way you express your opinion simply puts you in the wrong side. However if you approach him in a more respectful way, you will actually get your point across him and you may change his mind about the subject.

KWSN-Men:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=932495

Your responses in this thread are a perfect example of why you're experiencing problems with other uses.

You present things as facts, such as the contract being equal to 2 years and $20 millions. When someone asks you to show him your calculations, you do not do it and instead inform him that you put him on ignore.

Much like the thread thread that saw you insist that you had an unrealistic high IQ. When people asked you to prove it, you didn't do it.

Morten Jensen wrote:KWSN-Men:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=932495

Your responses in this thread are a perfect example of why you're experiencing problems with other uses.

You present things as facts, such as the contract being equal to 2 years and $20 millions. When someone asks you to show him your calculations, you do not do it and instead inform him that you put him on ignore.

Much like the thread thread that saw you insist that you had an unrealistic high IQ. When people asked you to prove it, you didn't do it.

if anyone else needs some further proof about this very issue check out the two "all Rubio talk" threads on the Wolves board.

BrooklynBulls wrote:

KWSN-Men wrote:
OK, so you recognize and understand these posters are in error. My question then is why if I point out the error, am I automatically attacked in a rude way and it is made like I am lying. It seems that to me, almost only European fans are the ones starting these arguments and they should all know that they are wrong. It seems like they are on purpose trying to distort how Americans view Rubio.

You not only point out the error, but you sometimes do so in an accusatory manner. Whenever you do that, you can expect an angry post back. If you would like the correct statistic to be prevalent, simply point to the link, say- the above information is not correct, here are the stats for you to look at yourselves. Then do not respond to posts that are angry and accusatory. Report them if they violate the TOS, or simply ignore them if you feel the argument will escalate.

Good suggestions. Thanks.

Morten Jensen wrote:KWSN-Men:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=932495

Your responses in this thread are a perfect example of why you're experiencing problems with other uses.

You present things as facts, such as the contract being equal to 2 years and $20 millions. When someone asks you to show him your calculations, you do not do it and instead inform him that you put him on ignore.

Much like the thread thread that saw you insist that you had an unrealistic high IQ. When people asked you to prove it, you didn't do it.

Hey man, people that are outright rude and making personal insults are owed nothing. I did what I think is right. Rude people should be ignored and that's my viewpoint. And I was right and I did no such thing as assert a fact. Read what I posted. Also read what another member posted, who was then also attacked by the same poster that attacked me. The problem there is not me, it's someone else being unreasonably rude.

basti wrote:

Morten Jensen wrote:KWSN-Men:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=932495

Your responses in this thread are a perfect example of why you're experiencing problems with other uses.

You present things as facts, such as the contract being equal to 2 years and $20 millions. When someone asks you to show him your calculations, you do not do it and instead inform him that you put him on ignore.

Much like the thread thread that saw you insist that you had an unrealistic high IQ. When people asked you to prove it, you didn't do it.

if anyone else needs some further proof about this very issue check out the two "all Rubio talk" threads on the Wolves board.

There is a poster on the Wolves board, named genjuro that is incredibly out of line. He has apparently been making up lies about me to other members and mods here.

nostradamus2005 wrote:Great post count55.

KWSN-Men, you complain about other posters' attitude towards you however you dont seem to realize that their reactions basically mirror the nature of your actions. Once you learn how to communicate properly without calling people as "liars" , "classic american fan who doesnt know anything about European Leagues" for simply misinterpreting a statistic due to different procedures between Euroleague and NBA (cumulative vs. per game averages) in determining the leader in any statistical category,then you wont have these problems anymore. I hope you soon realize that otherwise I dont see you surviving in these boards or in any other online community with this type of behavior.

Moreover if you want to have any kind of credibility around here, you may start using a new username instead of taking the exact username of a reputable poster in interbasket forums with whom you apparently had some troubles in the past. Quite honestly I dont understand your motivation in doing so and I can certainly assure you that it diminishes whatever credibility you have/might have around these forums.

Furthermore dropping the "hollier than thou" attitude would certainly result posters being more interested into the content of your actual post (if delivered properly).

Simply put, consider the other posts as minor presentations of other posters. And if you appreach someone after a presentation and say that "He is a(n) liar/ignorant" for misinterpreting a statistic then you sure wont change his mind plus you will get into a screaming match with him. And even if you are right about that particular subject, the way you express your opinion simply puts you in the wrong side. However if you approach him in a more respectful way, you will actually get your point across him and you may change his mind about the subject.

I never took any name from some poster on some other basketball website. KWSN-Men is a website. It is these kind of false accusations being made that are very out of line IMHO.