Re: DeMar DeRozan Defends Gregg Popovich, Becky Hammon For Standing For Anthem

Moderators: BombsquadSammy, Domejandro, bwgood77

User avatar
esqtvd
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,748
And1: 1,146
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: DeMar DeRozan Defends Gregg Popovich, Becky Hammon For Standing For Anthem 

Post#21 » by esqtvd » Sun Aug 2, 2020 2:23 am

Rashidi wrote:
esqtvd wrote:of course it's about disrespecting the flag

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game.


You appeared to miss the words that actually mattered in this sentence.


The key word is "flag" here.
..............................................................................IGNORED: nobody really, though some folks make my eyes glaze over :lol:
User avatar
esqtvd
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,748
And1: 1,146
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: DeMar DeRozan Defends Gregg Popovich, Becky Hammon For Standing For Anthem 

Post#22 » by esqtvd » Sun Aug 2, 2020 2:24 am

Rashidi wrote:
esqtvd wrote:of course it's about disrespecting the flag

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game.


You appeared to miss the words that actually mattered in this sentence.


Don't be disingenuous. The key word is "flag" here. The man said what he said. Own it.
..............................................................................IGNORED: nobody really, though some folks make my eyes glaze over :lol:
BigTex
Junior
Posts: 282
And1: 33
Joined: Jun 21, 2017
     

Re: DeMar DeRozan Defends Gregg Popovich, Becky Hammon For Standing For Anthem 

Post#23 » by BigTex » Sun Aug 2, 2020 2:51 am

Heavyhitter10 wrote:Of course there are many who disagree with Pop believing that he is a victim of a left-wing propaganda effort to turn our country into a Communist country!


There are??!!! Surely not.
RickB-Orlando
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,784
And1: 1,305
Joined: Apr 30, 2008
 

Re: DeMar DeRozan Defends Gregg Popovich, Becky Hammon For Standing For Anthem 

Post#24 » by RickB-Orlando » Sun Aug 2, 2020 3:33 am

Hoopstarr wrote:
2018C3 wrote:Popovich is the last guy anyone could call a racist. I applaud his decision to stand.

The whole purpose of standing for the national anthem for me personally has been to honor all the veterans who have both gave there life and served in protecting this country. I still feel this way.

Kneeling does not sit well with me, but I do believe that in the USA people should have the right to either stand or kneel. Its a right our Veterans have fought for, and many have died to protect.


The military does not and should not own the flag nor patriotism. The military in fact represents a lot of anti-American ideas and exhibit reprehensible morals.


As a veteran, statements like this genuinely infuriate me. Men and women in the military fight for the right of everyone in the country to protest in a peaceful way. I don’t remember anyone claiming that those in the military own patriotism or the flag, but to claim the current military or veterans represent the worst of things is patently ridiculous and quite frankly offensive.

My brothers-in-arms enlisted to allow others to live in freedom and to me, the flag represents that service and the country that we served. I respect others decision not to stand, as long as it is done so respectfully and for legitimate beliefs, but please don’t criticize us for respecting the flag and what it stands for to us.
User avatar
esqtvd
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,748
And1: 1,146
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: DeMar DeRozan Defends Gregg Popovich, Becky Hammon For Standing For Anthem 

Post#25 » by esqtvd » Sun Aug 2, 2020 4:49 am

RickB-Orlando wrote:
Hoopstarr wrote:
2018C3 wrote:Popovich is the last guy anyone could call a racist. I applaud his decision to stand.

The whole purpose of standing for the national anthem for me personally has been to honor all the veterans who have both gave there life and served in protecting this country. I still feel this way.

Kneeling does not sit well with me, but I do believe that in the USA people should have the right to either stand or kneel. Its a right our Veterans have fought for, and many have died to protect.


The military does not and should not own the flag nor patriotism. The military in fact represents a lot of anti-American ideas and exhibit reprehensible morals.


As a veteran, statements like this genuinely infuriate me. Men and women in the military fight for the right of everyone in the country to protest in a peaceful way. I don’t remember anyone claiming that those in the military own patriotism or the flag, but to claim the current military or veterans represent the worst of things is patently ridiculous and quite frankly offensive.

My brothers-in-arms enlisted to allow others to live in freedom and to me, the flag represents that service and the country that we served. I respect others decision not to stand, as long as it is done so respectfully and for legitimate beliefs, but please don’t criticize us for respecting the flag and what it stands for to us.


The new BS line is that you're "allowed" not to kneel and they won't destroy you. Thanks a lot. But NOBODY stood up for Drew Brees when Malcolm Jenkins came down on him. They let Brees dangle in the wind and then let him crawl.

Today Brees is speaking up again because he's disgusted with himself for caving to the mob and the coast looks clear. But it's too late. He's still crawling.

If you can't bring yourself to stand for America's flag and the anthem, fine. Stay in the locker room. We don't FORCE anybody to respect and honor America.


Kneeling--the OPPOSITE of standing for the flag and anthem--is POINTED disrespect. Don't p*ss on my back and tell me it's raining. It's p*ss. Let's just be honest about it.
..............................................................................IGNORED: nobody really, though some folks make my eyes glaze over :lol:
Badbobby
Sophomore
Posts: 220
And1: 161
Joined: Jan 25, 2018

Re: DeMar DeRozan Defends Gregg Popovich, Becky Hammon For Standing For Anthem 

Post#26 » by Badbobby » Sun Aug 2, 2020 9:41 am

esqtvd wrote:
RickB-Orlando wrote:
Hoopstarr wrote:
The military does not and should not own the flag nor patriotism. The military in fact represents a lot of anti-American ideas and exhibit reprehensible morals.


As a veteran, statements like this genuinely infuriate me. Men and women in the military fight for the right of everyone in the country to protest in a peaceful way. I don’t remember anyone claiming that those in the military own patriotism or the flag, but to claim the current military or veterans represent the worst of things is patently ridiculous and quite frankly offensive.

My brothers-in-arms enlisted to allow others to live in freedom and to me, the flag represents that service and the country that we served. I respect others decision not to stand, as long as it is done so respectfully and for legitimate beliefs, but please don’t criticize us for respecting the flag and what it stands for to us.


The new BS line is that you're "allowed" not to kneel and they won't destroy you. Thanks a lot. But NOBODY stood up for Drew Brees when Malcolm Jenkins came down on him. They let Brees dangle in the wind and then let him crawl.

Today Brees is speaking up again because he's disgusted with himself for caving to the mob and the coast looks clear. But it's too late. He's still crawling.

If you can't bring yourself to stand for America's flag and the anthem, fine. Stay in the locker room. We don't FORCE anybody to respect and honor America.


Kneeling--the OPPOSITE of standing for the flag and anthem--is POINTED disrespect. Don't p*ss on my back and tell me it's raining. It's p*ss. Let's just be honest about it.


Some of you Americans are so **** intense. Literally EVERY country has veterans who have fought and died for their country, but Americans have to yap on about it endlessly. I wish you’d just calm the hell down. It’s unlucky for us all non-Americans that it has to be you who’s the “leader” of the free world.

We’re literally here to read about and discuss basketball. Stick to it. Go Pop!
User avatar
SOUL
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 44,481
And1: 24,082
Joined: Dec 11, 2006
Location: 트와이스
Contact:
     

Re: DeMar DeRozan Defends Gregg Popovich, Becky Hammon For Standing For Anthem 

Post#27 » by SOUL » Sun Aug 2, 2020 10:00 am

esqtvd wrote:The new BS line is that you're "allowed" not to kneel and they won't destroy you. Thanks a lot. But NOBODY stood up for Drew Brees when Malcolm Jenkins came down on him. They let Brees dangle in the wind and then let him crawl.

Today Brees is speaking up again because he's disgusted with himself for caving to the mob and the coast looks clear. But it's too late. He's still crawling.

If you can't bring yourself to stand for America's flag and the anthem, fine. Stay in the locker room. We don't FORCE anybody to respect and honor America.


Kneeling--the OPPOSITE of standing for the flag and anthem--is POINTED disrespect. Don't p*ss on my back and tell me it's raining. It's p*ss. Let's just be honest about it.


1. Drew Brees missed the mark originally and took it as a sign of "disrespecting the flag" and by proxy it meaning that Kap/others were disrespecting the military/anybody else that has fought for our freedoms. It has nothing to do with disrespecting the military and everything to do with feeling like America isn't in the best place right now.

So, what are you going to do? Tell him he's wrong? That's his opinion. Tell him he's right but he should stand? Why does that matter if he's explicitly telling you the reason why he's doing it?

It's one thing if he said "**** America, I want to piss on the flag, this place sucks, I want to burn it" versus the reasoning why he did it in the person place.

You can be against a bunch of the policies/thoughts/trends and not be against the military. Patriotism means a lot to some people and nothing to others, and part of being an American is learning to cope with people with different opinions.

2. No one is required to stand. We're a floating piece of rock in space and none of us were asked to be born nor had any control over being born where we were. You could live in America, appreciate what it offers (good and bad), and not be patriotic. I think America is a good place to live but I would honestly not mind living in a lot of first world countries. Some people ONLY would live in America and I totally get it. If somebody doesn't have "pride" in being American but lives here, that doesn't hurt you. If we were "required" to follow orders of what people deem as patriotism in order to live here, that would be very un-American.

3. As long as people are doing it respectfully, nobody should have a problem with people kneeling, standing, or anything in between. You're as hypocritical as people **** on Isaac/Pop/etc for standing. They have the choice to do what they want to do.

4. None of it means anything in the long run, it's just a perceived sign of respect. You can be a piece of **** person that doesn't actually care about veterans or the military or doing anything to improve their community and preach about standing while somebody kneeling could be helping every weekend and making actual change. Just like Isaac could be standing and I know he does tons of work in the Orlando community to help black youth while others who are kneeling probably don't give a **** and just want to be seen as an ally for clout. None of it goes hand in hand.
User avatar
SOUL
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 44,481
And1: 24,082
Joined: Dec 11, 2006
Location: 트와이스
Contact:
     

Re: DeMar DeRozan Defends Gregg Popovich, Becky Hammon For Standing For Anthem 

Post#28 » by SOUL » Sun Aug 2, 2020 10:16 am

RickB-Orlando wrote:As a veteran, statements like this genuinely infuriate me. Men and women in the military fight for the right of everyone in the country to protest in a peaceful way. I don’t remember anyone claiming that those in the military own patriotism or the flag, but to claim the current military or veterans represent the worst of things is patently ridiculous and quite frankly offensive.

My brothers-in-arms enlisted to allow others to live in freedom and to me, the flag represents that service and the country that we served. I respect others decision not to stand, as long as it is done so respectfully and for legitimate beliefs, but please don’t criticize us for respecting the flag and what it stands for to us.


Personally, I don't think those in the military own patriotism or claim it. However, I think the way it's portrayed in America at least, it's deeply rooted and connected way more than any other country. Look at any big sporting event and you'll mostly see military men and women around. Some people don't agree with a lot of what the military is ordered to do, me included. Hell, some people serving in the military do too but do their job regardless which I respect (as long as it isn't directly hurting civilians in another country).

Both of my grandparents served in the military so I grew up around them and really appreciate them. At the same time, I knew/read/watched tons of **** people that went to the military just for $/direction/hoping to get into conflict. Not all people who join the military are good people and join it under the guise of "fighting for our freedom". I realize most people aren't like that. Just like teachers, cops, nurses, etc, there are bad people in all walks of life. I respect and honor those that deserve to be respected and honored, which I find is a good majority of servicemen/women.

I do understand what the flag means to others and I agree with your opinion on it for those where it means a lot and for those where it doesn't mean as much. If anything, I think those who are kneeling and standing with GOOD reasoning for each have more in common than those standing/kneeling just to "fit in" with other.
User avatar
SOUL
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 44,481
And1: 24,082
Joined: Dec 11, 2006
Location: 트와이스
Contact:
     

Re: DeMar DeRozan Defends Gregg Popovich, Becky Hammon For Standing For Anthem 

Post#29 » by SOUL » Sun Aug 2, 2020 10:25 am

jstudabaka wrote:Geez, now we're in a place where people who don't kneel need to be defended? Personally, I always thought kneeling for the anthem as a form of protest was misguided. If you're fighting for equality and justice -- stand and embrace the flag, because that's what it's supposed to represent. Kneeling cedes the anthem to the regressive forces you're protesting. You should claim those patriotic symbols for your cause rather than disavow them.


The issue is, many who were against kneeling in the beginning didn't believe that there was even inequality or race related issues worth fighting for or talking about. Or those issues wouldn't be talked about or paid attention to without Kap kneeling. There are many ways to protest, and that was a non-violent way to bring attention to issues black people felt worthy enough to want to be spoken about. And it did get the message out.

The flag means different things to different people. If you had 2 flags, one that was representing everybody in America's history that fought for our freedoms who should be honored, NOBODY would be kneeling to that flag. But we only have 1 and again, it encompasses the good, the bad, and everything between. Taking it as a direct insult to people who have made this country what it is is completely missing the point if the person explained what it was about.
shrink
RealGM
Posts: 44,013
And1: 5,116
Joined: Sep 26, 2005

Re: DeMar DeRozan Defends Gregg Popovich, Becky Hammon For Standing For Anthem 

Post#30 » by shrink » Sun Aug 2, 2020 4:43 pm

SOUL wrote:
jstudabaka wrote:Geez, now we're in a place where people who don't kneel need to be defended? Personally, I always thought kneeling for the anthem as a form of protest was misguided. If you're fighting for equality and justice -- stand and embrace the flag, because that's what it's supposed to represent. Kneeling cedes the anthem to the regressive forces you're protesting. You should claim those patriotic symbols for your cause rather than disavow them.


The issue is, many who were against kneeling in the beginning didn't believe that there was even inequality or race related issues worth fighting for or talking about. Or those issues wouldn't be talked about or paid attention to without Kap kneeling. There are many ways to protest, and that was a non-violent way to bring attention to issues black people felt worthy enough to want to be spoken about. And it did get the message out.

The flag means different things to different people. If you had 2 flags, one that was representing everybody in America's history that fought for our freedoms who should be honored, NOBODY would be kneeling to that flag. But we only have 1 and again, it encompasses the good, the bad, and everything between. Taking it as a direct insult to people who have made this country what it is is completely missing the point if the person explained what it was about.


I think this is a good post, and it addresses that different people can see symbols differently. However, symbols are designed to elicit emotions, and whether people like it or not, the symbol of the flag is closely tied to the military. They wear a flag on their uniform, they post it on their vehicles, they fly it over outposts, even when deployed to the farthest corners of the world. When a person in the armed services dies, their casket returns to the US under an American flag, and a flag is given to family members at the funeral. It is not reasonable to demand people who feel this way about the flag to just ignore that aspect of the symbol.

I will go farther. Disrespecting someone else’s symbol to draw attention to your own issues is at best, confusing, and at worse, alienates people who may agree with your cause, but disagree with your tactics. Imagine defacing the George Floyd memorial to draw attention to human rights issues around the world (not just the US here), because you believe that these issues don’t get enough attention. I fully endorse protesting, but if the goal is to unite, you need to protest the direct sources of the issue.
User avatar
esqtvd
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,748
And1: 1,146
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: DeMar DeRozan Defends Gregg Popovich, Becky Hammon For Standing For Anthem 

Post#31 » by esqtvd » Sun Aug 2, 2020 7:19 pm

SOUL wrote:
esqtvd wrote:The new BS line is that you're "allowed" not to kneel and they won't destroy you. Thanks a lot. But NOBODY stood up for Drew Brees when Malcolm Jenkins came down on him. They let Brees dangle in the wind and then let him crawl.

Today Brees is speaking up again because he's disgusted with himself for caving to the mob and the coast looks clear. But it's too late. He's still crawling.

If you can't bring yourself to stand for America's flag and the anthem, fine. Stay in the locker room. We don't FORCE anybody to respect and honor America.


Kneeling--the OPPOSITE of standing for the flag and anthem--is POINTED disrespect. Don't p*ss on my back and tell me it's raining. It's p*ss. Let's just be honest about it.


1. Drew Brees missed the mark originally and took it as a sign of "disrespecting the flag" and by proxy it meaning that Kap/others were disrespecting the military/anybody else that has fought for our freedoms. It has nothing to do with disrespecting the military and everything to do with feeling like America isn't in the best place right now.

So, what are you going to do? Tell him he's wrong? That's his opinion. Tell him he's right but he should stand? Why does that matter if he's explicitly telling you the reason why he's doing it?

It's one thing if he said "**** America, I want to piss on the flag, this place sucks, I want to burn it" versus the reasoning why he did it in the person place.

You can be against a bunch of the policies/thoughts/trends and not be against the military. Patriotism means a lot to some people and nothing to others, and part of being an American is learning to cope with people with different opinions.

2. No one is required to stand. We're a floating piece of rock in space and none of us were asked to be born nor had any control over being born where we were. You could live in America, appreciate what it offers (good and bad), and not be patriotic. I think America is a good place to live but I would honestly not mind living in a lot of first world countries. Some people ONLY would live in America and I totally get it. If somebody doesn't have "pride" in being American but lives here, that doesn't hurt you. If we were "required" to follow orders of what people deem as patriotism in order to live here, that would be very un-American.

3. As long as people are doing it respectfully, nobody should have a problem with people kneeling, standing, or anything in between. You're as hypocritical as people **** on Isaac/Pop/etc for standing. They have the choice to do what they want to do.

4. None of it means anything in the long run, it's just a perceived sign of respect. You can be a piece of **** person that doesn't actually care about veterans or the military or doing anything to improve their community and preach about standing while somebody kneeling could be helping every weekend and making actual change. Just like Isaac could be standing and I know he does tons of work in the Orlando community to help black youth while others who are kneeling probably don't give a **** and just want to be seen as an ally for clout. None of it goes hand in hand.




My original question is, who stood up for Drew Brees "right to be offended" by disrespecting the flag? Nobody.
..............................................................................IGNORED: nobody really, though some folks make my eyes glaze over :lol:
User avatar
esqtvd
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,748
And1: 1,146
Joined: Jun 24, 2017
Location: LA LA LA LAND
Contact:
     

Re: DeMar DeRozan Defends Gregg Popovich, Becky Hammon For Standing For Anthem 

Post#32 » by esqtvd » Sun Aug 2, 2020 7:27 pm

shrink wrote:the funeral. It is not reasonable to demand people who feel this way about the flag to just ignore that aspect of the symbol.

I will go farther. Disrespecting someone else’s symbol to draw attention to your own issues is at best, confusing, and at worse, alienates people who may agree with your cause, but disagree with your tactics. Imagine defacing the George Floyd memorial to draw attention to human rights issues around the world (not just the US here), because you believe that these issues don’t get enough attention. I fully endorse protesting, but if the goal is to unite, you need to protest the direct sources of the issue.


Exactly. You don't get to disrespect someone else's symbol then tell them IN YOUR OPINION you're not disrespecting it. That's absurd.
..............................................................................IGNORED: nobody really, though some folks make my eyes glaze over :lol:
Badbobby
Sophomore
Posts: 220
And1: 161
Joined: Jan 25, 2018

Re: DeMar DeRozan Defends Gregg Popovich, Becky Hammon For Standing For Anthem 

Post#33 » by Badbobby » Tue Aug 4, 2020 10:31 am

esqtvd wrote:
shrink wrote:the funeral. It is not reasonable to demand people who feel this way about the flag to just ignore that aspect of the symbol.

I will go farther. Disrespecting someone else’s symbol to draw attention to your own issues is at best, confusing, and at worse, alienates people who may agree with your cause, but disagree with your tactics. Imagine defacing the George Floyd memorial to draw attention to human rights issues around the world (not just the US here), because you believe that these issues don’t get enough attention. I fully endorse protesting, but if the goal is to unite, you need to protest the direct sources of the issue.


Exactly. You don't get to disrespect someone else's symbol then tell them IN YOUR OPINION you're not disrespecting it. That's absurd.


Lol how the hell is kneeling during the anthem “disrespecting the flag?”

Pissing on the flag is disrespecting the flag. Burning the flag is disrespecting the flag.

Fact check: millions of black men, women and children were enslaved, bled and died to build the USA into a wealthy nation. No slaves, no modern America. The blacks have every right to behave how ever they choose, their stolen lives were a foundation stone of the modern American state. White America owes its very existence and prosperity to them.

White America is lucky that all they choose to do is kneel.
shrink
RealGM
Posts: 44,013
And1: 5,116
Joined: Sep 26, 2005

Re: DeMar DeRozan Defends Gregg Popovich, Becky Hammon For Standing For Anthem 

Post#34 » by shrink » Tue Aug 4, 2020 3:03 pm

Badbobby wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
shrink wrote:the funeral. It is not reasonable to demand people who feel this way about the flag to just ignore that aspect of the symbol.


Exactly. You don't get to disrespect someone else's symbol then tell them IN YOUR OPINION you're not disrespecting it. That's absurd.


Lol how the hell is kneeling during the anthem “disrespecting the flag?”

Pissing on the flag is disrespecting the flag. Burning the flag is disrespecting the flag.

Fact check: millions of black men, women and children were enslaved, bled and died to build the USA into a wealthy nation. No slaves, no modern America. The blacks have every right to behave how ever they choose...
First, I think you are completely missing the point on symbols. Symbols are designed to elicit strong emotional responses. Not everyone is going to have the same opinion. Posting your opinion, that kneeling is OK but burning the flag is not, is just that - your opinion.

However, I find the second part more disappointing. I completely agree with you that the slave trade was a factor in America’s economic dominance (though the fact that this dominance over other formerly slave-owning countries came from 1900-2000 shows it is not the only factor). But I don’t believe it gives anyone “the right to behave however they choose.” This is the mentality that led to the looting (and worse) that detracted from the protests from George Floyd’s tragic death that elicited sympathy from all.

Every person is responsible for his own actions - the enslavement of ancestors 150 years ago that you keep talking about should not be an excuse to “behave however they choose.”
Badbobby
Sophomore
Posts: 220
And1: 161
Joined: Jan 25, 2018

Re: DeMar DeRozan Defends Gregg Popovich, Becky Hammon For Standing For Anthem 

Post#35 » by Badbobby » Fri Aug 7, 2020 10:51 am

shrink wrote:
Badbobby wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
Exactly. You don't get to disrespect someone else's symbol then tell them IN YOUR OPINION you're not disrespecting it. That's absurd.


Lol how the hell is kneeling during the anthem “disrespecting the flag?”

Pissing on the flag is disrespecting the flag. Burning the flag is disrespecting the flag.

Fact check: millions of black men, women and children were enslaved, bled and died to build the USA into a wealthy nation. No slaves, no modern America. The blacks have every right to behave how ever they choose...
First, I think you are completely missing the point on symbols. Symbols are designed to elicit strong emotional responses. Not everyone is going to have the same opinion. Posting your opinion, that kneeling is OK but burning the flag is not, is just that - your opinion.

However, I find the second part more disappointing. I completely agree with you that the slave trade was a factor in America’s economic dominance (though the fact that this dominance over other formerly slave-owning countries came from 1900-2000 shows it is not the only factor). But I don’t believe it gives anyone “the right to behave however they choose.” This is the mentality that led to the looting (and worse) that detracted from the protests from George Floyd’s tragic death that elicited sympathy from all.

Every person is responsible for his own actions - the enslavement of ancestors 150 years ago that you keep talking about should not be an excuse to “behave however they choose.”


It’s good you don’t believe the second part, that should help you sleep at night.
DimesandKnicks
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,614
And1: 3,126
Joined: Jun 11, 2009

Re: DeMar DeRozan Defends Gregg Popovich, Becky Hammon For Standing For Anthem 

Post#36 » by DimesandKnicks » Fri Aug 7, 2020 11:30 am

2018C3 wrote:Popovich is the last guy anyone could call a racist. I applaud his decision to stand.

The whole purpose of standing for the national anthem for me personally has been to honor all the veterans who have both gave there life and served in protecting this country. I still feel this way.

Kneeling does not sit well with me, but I do believe that in the USA people should have the right to either stand or kneel. Its a right our Veterans have fought for, and many have died to protect.


Veterans haven't "fought for our rights" since the Civil War. And there were also black veterans who fought in the revolution, Civil War, both world wars and Vietnam only to return to a country where they couldn't vote and could strung up on trees with impunity. Would them kneeling for the flag to promote social justice "sit the wring way with you", or when the dudes at the Olympics raised a fist?

Truly, white america, you need to take a step back and deal with this ckubtries racism. We could probably do it without you. It would take a lot longer though and if evee minorities enter their rulership in this country they will not be kind to your children's chrilden
righterwriter wrote:Because someone named Laquanda or Dontrelle evokes an image of someone who might be a pain to work with compared to someone named Chen or Dieter. Don't like it? Blame the Laquanda's and Dontrelle's who have been tough to work with in the past.
DimesandKnicks
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,614
And1: 3,126
Joined: Jun 11, 2009

Re: DeMar DeRozan Defends Gregg Popovich, Becky Hammon For Standing For Anthem 

Post#37 » by DimesandKnicks » Fri Aug 7, 2020 11:40 am

Badbobby wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
shrink wrote:the funeral. It is not reasonable to demand people who feel this way about the flag to just ignore that aspect of the symbol.

I will go farther. Disrespecting someone else’s symbol to draw attention to your own issues is at best, confusing, and at worse, alienates people who may agree with your cause, but disagree with your tactics. Imagine defacing the George Floyd memorial to draw attention to human rights issues around the world (not just the US here), because you believe that these issues don’t get enough attention. I fully endorse protesting, but if the goal is to unite, you need to protest the direct sources of the issue.


Exactly. You don't get to disrespect someone else's symbol then tell them IN YOUR OPINION you're not disrespecting it. That's absurd.


Lol how the hell is kneeling during the anthem “disrespecting the flag?”

Pissing on the flag is disrespecting the flag. Burning the flag is disrespecting the flag.

Fact check: millions of black men, women and children were enslaved, bled and died to build the USA into a wealthy nation. No slaves, no modern America. The blacks have every right to behave how ever they choose, their stolen lives were a foundation stone of the modern American state. White America owes its very existence and prosperity to them.

White America is lucky that all they choose to do is kneel.


This. Anyone remember when Roseanne sang the national anthem spit and grabbed her crotch at the end. This "disrespecting the flag narrative" is completely made up. There is not correlation between kneeling (kneeling) and disrespecting the flag. If you geel disrespected, that's a you thing. The flag has no feelings. It can't be disrespected.
righterwriter wrote:Because someone named Laquanda or Dontrelle evokes an image of someone who might be a pain to work with compared to someone named Chen or Dieter. Don't like it? Blame the Laquanda's and Dontrelle's who have been tough to work with in the past.
DimesandKnicks
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,614
And1: 3,126
Joined: Jun 11, 2009

Re: DeMar DeRozan Defends Gregg Popovich, Becky Hammon For Standing For Anthem 

Post#38 » by DimesandKnicks » Fri Aug 7, 2020 11:54 am

shrink wrote:
Badbobby wrote:
esqtvd wrote:
Exactly. You don't get to disrespect someone else's symbol then tell them IN YOUR OPINION you're not disrespecting it. That's absurd.


Lol how the hell is kneeling during the anthem “disrespecting the flag?”

Pissing on the flag is disrespecting the flag. Burning the flag is disrespecting the flag.

Fact check: millions of black men, women and children were enslaved, bled and died to build the USA into a wealthy nation. No slaves, no modern America. The blacks have every right to behave how ever they choose...
First, I think you are completely missing the point on symbols. Symbols are designed to elicit strong emotional responses. Not everyone is going to have the same opinion. Posting your opinion, that kneeling is OK but burning the flag is not, is just that - your opinion.

However, I find the second part more disappointing. I completely agree with you that the slave trade was a factor in America’s economic dominance (though the fact that this dominance over other formerly slave-owning countries came from 1900-2000 shows it is not the only factor). But I don’t believe it gives anyone “the right to behave however they choose.” This is the mentality that led to the looting (and worse) that detracted from the protests from George Floyd’s tragic death that elicited sympathy from all.

Every person is responsible for his own actions - the enslavement of ancestors 150 years ago that you keep talking about should not be an excuse to “behave however they choose.”


Why are you talking about Slavery? This is about racism in the United States today. Do you know what's happened to black americans since slavery? It really does seem that many white americans do not.

It really sucks that black people are treated as second class citizens in America but they don't have to "disrespect the flag" or damage property

Or

It really sucks that people are damaging property and "disrespecting the flag" but Black people shouldn't be treated as second class citizens in America.

You can choose one or the other. Personally if your emotions lean towards the first option you should be ashamed of yourself. You lack empathy and humanity. The Flag and property are things and its disgraceful that some of you are more concerned with "things" then the racism this country continues to subject black people to.

The "mentality" that led to the looting/rioting is that of inferiority, which is a mentality that America has legally instilled in black americans across its nation from pre-independence to 1968 via racism and discrimination.

What gives people "the right" to kneel is that they were born here.
righterwriter wrote:Because someone named Laquanda or Dontrelle evokes an image of someone who might be a pain to work with compared to someone named Chen or Dieter. Don't like it? Blame the Laquanda's and Dontrelle's who have been tough to work with in the past.
shrink
RealGM
Posts: 44,013
And1: 5,116
Joined: Sep 26, 2005

Re: DeMar DeRozan Defends Gregg Popovich, Becky Hammon For Standing For Anthem 

Post#39 » by shrink » Fri Aug 7, 2020 12:14 pm

(changed my mind on whether responding would be worthwhile)
2018C3
Junior
Posts: 439
And1: 291
Joined: Jul 14, 2018
   

Re: DeMar DeRozan Defends Gregg Popovich, Becky Hammon For Standing For Anthem 

Post#40 » by 2018C3 » Sat Aug 8, 2020 4:39 am

DimesandKnicks wrote:
2018C3 wrote:Popovich is the last guy anyone could call a racist. I applaud his decision to stand.

The whole purpose of standing for the national anthem for me personally has been to honor all the veterans who have both gave there life and served in protecting this country. I still feel this way.

Kneeling does not sit well with me, but I do believe that in the USA people should have the right to either stand or kneel. Its a right our Veterans have fought for, and many have died to protect.


Veterans haven't "fought for our rights" since the Civil War. And there were also black veterans who fought in the revolution, Civil War, both world wars and Vietnam only to return to a country where they couldn't vote and could strung up on trees with impunity. Would them kneeling for the flag to promote social justice "sit the wring way with you", or when the dudes at the Olympics raised a fist?

Truly, white america, you need to take a step back and deal with this ckubtries racism. We could probably do it without you. It would take a lot longer though and if evee minorities enter their rulership in this country they will not be kind to your children's chrilden



Tell that to my father who was a vet, and dedicated his entire life work to helping others work though personal problems from people consisting of all races, and was also a psychiatric counselor to a former veteran Black Heavy Weight Boxing Champion.

I would choose to stand for the honor of all veterans, not just the pale ones. We as people in this country need to stop identifying people by race, and learn to treat everyone as a individual human. That is the ideal I stand for!

There will always be a few racists from all nationalities out there who have not been properly exposed, and will hold beliefs that they were taught from a young age. The best thing to do is kill those misplaced beliefs with kindness.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This guy understands how to make a positive change, and has made a big difference in his personal interactions, We could all learn a thing or two from this very smart wise man.



We should all watch this video, and use these same ideas to build a better future for everyone.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

I have mentioned this before, I grew up in a family where my grandparents were very racist. It was not uncommon for me to here my grandfather call a black person the "N" word. My parents were never on board with that, and brought me up right. When my grandparents got old, they had a black caretaker, and over time there opinion changed. After there black caretaker left them they also had a Filipino caretaker.

When I was a child they did not like anyone who was not white, even Italians were too much. By the time they passed and were exposed to other people who were not the same as themselves, they admitted there former beliefs were wrong.

Just two generations later from there time I now live in a mixed family, and have both African Americans and Asian Americans mixed into our family structure through their grand, and also great grand children.

Any existing racism can easily be killed with exposure, mutual respect, and kind actions.

________________________________________________________________________________


I'm not looking for a trophy or anything, But two weekends ago I seen a black man with a flat tire parked at a gas station just a block from my house at around 11:00pm with a busted socket wrench laying next to his tire, I drove back home and returned with a tire iron, and a floor jack and helped the guy change his tire. I would have done this re-regardless of his race, because one time about a year ago someone stopped and helped me in similar situation, It was now my time to return the favor. I'd like to believe little things like this can make a difference in this world.

________________________________________________________________________________

Some people here could try and label me all they want for my view points towards solutions. It does not bother me at all because I know who I am, and also know that all people are equal and should be treated that way. It's ok for people to disagree on what is the best solution to a goal.

Return to Wiretap Discussion