Cavaliers Will Attempt To Trade J.R. Smith In June

[DBoys]

The NBA rules have changed regarding non-fully-guaranteed contracts in that only the guaranteed amount counts when matching salary in a trade. JR Smith, however, has a contract that predates this rule change and is unaffected by it.

That rule recitation is accurate. If I'm another team, I'm certainly willing to offer CLE my 12-18M player that I'm about to stretch-waive, and a 2nd rounder, so that I can waive $3.87M instead. In fact, I bet there are 29 GMs hoping the Cavs are open to that sort of deal.

[JonFromVA]

The NBA rules have changed regarding non-fully-guaranteed contracts in that only the guaranteed amount counts when matching salary in a trade. JR Smith, however, has a contract that predates this rule change and is unaffected by it.

That rule recitation is accurate. If I'm another team, I'm certainly willing to offer CLE my 12-18M player that I'm about to stretch-waive, and a 2nd rounder, so that I can waive $3.87M instead. In fact, I bet there are 29 GMs hoping the Cavs are open to that sort of deal.

Sure, but the Cavs are going to be looking for something better than a future 2nd rounder and a dead contract.

So, it will probably come down to whether a team gets desperate to clear salary to make a free agent bid or complete a big trade. Odds seem pretty good with a number of top players potentially moving around, but perhaps 1 or 2 teams ... not 29.

[ccvle]

That’s a good point. The double standards are ridiculous. The NBA has no level of consistency when they deal with things like this.

Smith agreed to stay away from the team....

And I'm sure AD would agree to stay away from the Pelicans and not play. The pelicans don't want to even play AD but league is forcing them and they are playing AD 20 minutes a game. They don't want AD getting hurt. Best way is not to play him at all.

Did AD come out and officially say him and Pelicans decided that it would be best if he sits out ? No he didnt. What you think AD thinks is irrelevant.

He publicly said that he wanted to play and play more.

"I mean, I think everybody wants to play the fourth quarter," Davis said at the Pelicans' morning shootaround. "Obviously it is frustrating. I've never, like I said before, been a guy who has been able to sit out the fourth, but I just play and do whatever I can, play as hard as I can for the minutes I am on the floor."

[DBoys]

The NBA rules have changed regarding non-fully-guaranteed contracts in that only the guaranteed amount counts when matching salary in a trade. JR Smith, however, has a contract that predates this rule change and is unaffected by it.

That rule recitation is accurate. If I'm another team, I'm certainly willing to offer CLE my 12-18M player that I'm about to stretch-waive, and a 2nd rounder, so that I can waive $3.87M instead. In fact, I bet there are 29 GMs hoping the Cavs are open to that sort of deal.

Sure, but the Cavs are going to be looking for something better than a future 2nd rounder and a dead contract.

So, it will probably come down to whether a team gets desperate to clear salary to make a free agent bid or complete a big trade. Odds seem pretty good with a number of top players potentially moving around, but perhaps 1 or 2 teams ... not 29.

I can't imagine a team making much of a commitment for cap room, until they have a use for it, and that's a July exercise, not June. And in July, there will be many teams with potential salary-taking alternatives to a Smith contract that will cost about 4M in dead money. That's why a 2nd round pick sounds about right as to what sort of return they'd get, because Cavs won't be the only game in town.

[Anticon]

That's because JR has special value that kicks in around June.

I'm not sure how many times I've had to explain this, but one more time for those who care:

The NBA rules have changed regarding non-fully-guaranteed contracts in that only the guaranteed amount counts when matching salary in a trade. JR Smith, however, has a contract that predates this rule change and is unaffected by it.

So if a team needs to dump about $12M in salary this Summer (for whatever reason) they can trade for JR and give the Cavs something to make it worth their while.

Once that windows closes? JR will be released by the Cavs and they'll eat the remaining guaranteed money.

Helpful clarification. Though I would say the Cavs could in theory hold on until the trade deadline, as the tax bill is calculated after the deadline, as I recall (can't remember the date) and some teams could still benefit from the savings.

[JonFromVA]

That's because JR has special value that kicks in around June.

I'm not sure how many times I've had to explain this, but one more time for those who care:

The NBA rules have changed regarding non-fully-guaranteed contracts in that only the guaranteed amount counts when matching salary in a trade. JR Smith, however, has a contract that predates this rule change and is unaffected by it.

So if a team needs to dump about $12M in salary this Summer (for whatever reason) they can trade for JR and give the Cavs something to make it worth their while.

Once that windows closes? JR will be released by the Cavs and they'll eat the remaining guaranteed money.

Helpful clarification. Though I would say the Cavs could in theory hold on until the trade deadline, as the tax bill is calculated after the deadline, as I recall (can't remember the date) and some teams could still benefit from the savings.

Nah, the decision date for JR's partial guarantee is June 30th. He might be worth something as a $15M expiring, but the Cavs have other options for that.

[JonFromVA]

That rule recitation is accurate. If I'm another team, I'm certainly willing to offer CLE my 12-18M player that I'm about to stretch-waive, and a 2nd rounder, so that I can waive $3.87M instead. In fact, I bet there are 29 GMs hoping the Cavs are open to that sort of deal.

Sure, but the Cavs are going to be looking for something better than a future 2nd rounder and a dead contract.

So, it will probably come down to whether a team gets desperate to clear salary to make a free agent bid or complete a big trade. Odds seem pretty good with a number of top players potentially moving around, but perhaps 1 or 2 teams ... not 29.

I can't imagine a team making much of a commitment for cap room, until they have a use for it, and that's a July exercise, not June. And in July, there will be many teams with potential salary-taking alternatives to a Smith contract that will cost about 4M in dead money. That's why a 2nd round pick sounds about right as to what sort of return they'd get, because Cavs won't be the only game in town.

Yes, the deadline for JR's contract is June 30th, so, if a team thinks they're going to need that cap space to make a move, they will have to work something out by that date. They can always conduct some legal collusion to make sure everything is prepared for when free agency begins the next day (I presume).

What other teams can you think of that would take on nearly $11M in dead money for a second round pick or even a likely late first round pick?

I haven't seen much competition for the Cavs in that area - typically teams swap bad contracts. A future second rounder wouldn't be worth it, unless the player being dumped is actually viable.

[JonFromVA]

Smith agreed to stay away from the team....

And I'm sure AD would agree to stay away from the Pelicans and not play. The pelicans don't want to even play AD but league is forcing them and they are playing AD 20 minutes a game. They don't want AD getting hurt. Best way is not to play him at all.

Did AD come out and officially say him and Pelicans decided that it would be best if he sits out ? No he didnt. What you think AD thinks is irrelevant.

He publicly said that he wanted to play and play more.

"I mean, I think everybody wants to play the fourth quarter," Davis said at the Pelicans' morning shootaround. "Obviously it is frustrating. I've never, like I said before, been a guy who has been able to sit out the fourth, but I just play and do whatever I can, play as hard as I can for the minutes I am on the floor."

People love to point out perceived hypocrisy, but the situations just aren't comparable.

- Davis wants to play
- Davis is a superstar fans pay to see
- Not playing Davis smells like a tanking move

JR Smith? Not so much.

[DBoys]

Yes, the deadline for JR's contract is June 30th, so, if a team thinks they're going to need that cap space to make a move, they will have to work something out by that date. They can always conduct some legal collusion to make sure everything is prepared for when free agency begins the next day (I presume).

What other teams can you think of that would take on nearly $11M in dead money for a second round pick or even a likely late first round pick?

I haven't seen much competition for the Cavs in that area - typically teams swap bad contracts. A future second rounder wouldn't be worth it, unless the player being dumped is actually viable.

"june 30th, so, if a team thinks they're going to need that cap space to make a move, they will have to work something out by that date. They can always conduct some legal collusion to make sure everything is prepared for when free agency begins the next day (I presume)."

I'm not sure I understand what you are envisioning here. Especially the part in bold. How many teams will know in June exactly who is signing with them rather than someone else, and for how much, so they will know they need to buy cap room at a price? Teams often don't even know that answer well into free agency. The competition for free agents is fierce, and the decisions are sometimes really slow.

"What other teams can you think of that would take on nearly $11M in dead money for a second round pick or even a likely late first round pick? I haven't seen much competition for the Cavs in that area - typically teams swap bad contracts. A future second rounder wouldn't be worth it, unless the player being dumped is actually viable."

I think that's the issue. Cavs would want a viable player, and to also be shed of Smith money. But who is going to eat 4M in dead salary, and then also give you a good player for the "privilege" of getting to choke down JRS salary? If the players that good, they keep him, or sell him, AND they don't get JRS back.

[Vegeta10176]

I am talking about next year.
Bron played GM and got all his guys signed to stupid money, and now all they have to show for it is a washed up Love, and Nance.

Now in a couple of years they will be str8.

1) kevin love is only 30 years old and played very well last season
2) the cavs are better off going forward than the wolves

Played well???? I guess you are talking about 2017-2018 when he only missed 20 plus games, or this season and his 50 plus missed games? You may be better off with cap space, but with Love taking up a big chunk of it and missing games every year while his stats decline, I don't see it the way you do. Wiggins might be awful, but he stays healthy, and there is still hope he can turn the corner.

We still have Towns, and that is better than anything the Cavs have. Better hit big in the lotto.[/quote)

LeBron was gone when they resigned love to that big extension... Wiggins is not worth the contract he's on.. LBJ had them in 4 str8 finals and won 1 probably would be 2 if Kyrie and Love had not been injured.. please check cabs record without LeBron in NBA history they have been bad.. Cavs may get the number 1 pick this year again..

[JonFromVA]

Yes, the deadline for JR's contract is June 30th, so, if a team thinks they're going to need that cap space to make a move, they will have to work something out by that date. They can always conduct some legal collusion to make sure everything is prepared for when free agency begins the next day (I presume).

What other teams can you think of that would take on nearly $11M in dead money for a second round pick or even a likely late first round pick?

I haven't seen much competition for the Cavs in that area - typically teams swap bad contracts. A future second rounder wouldn't be worth it, unless the player being dumped is actually viable.

"june 30th, so, if a team thinks they're going to need that cap space to make a move, they will have to work something out by that date. They can always conduct some legal collusion to make sure everything is prepared for when free agency begins the next day (I presume)."

I'm not sure I understand what you are envisioning here. Especially the part in bold. How many teams will know in June exactly who is signing with them rather than someone else, and for how much, so they will know they need to buy cap room at a price? Teams often don't even know that answer well into free agency. The competition for free agents is fierce, and the decisions are sometimes really slow.

"What other teams can you think of that would take on nearly $11M in dead money for a second round pick or even a likely late first round pick? I haven't seen much competition for the Cavs in that area - typically teams swap bad contracts. A future second rounder wouldn't be worth it, unless the player being dumped is actually viable."

I think that's the issue. Cavs would want a viable player, and to also be shed of Smith money. But who is going to eat 4M in dead salary, and then also give you a good player for the "privilege" of getting to choke down JRS salary? If the players that good, they keep him, or sell him, AND they don't get JRS back.

I'm not saying your analysis is wrong, I'm just saying free-agency can play out different ways, and a team that feels they will need to clear some space as part of their pitch may be happy to do that sooner with the Cavs than wait and see if they can find another partner.

It's not like teams don't plan ahead in the NBA ... for instance Milwaukee gave up a 1st round pick to dump Henson and Delly so they'd have more options to help them keep Giannis, New York gave up KP so they can make a play KD and KI.

[Stillwater]

This was always the plan.
Somebody will not only want out of a contract that matches Smiths full deal, but they will give up a guaranteed contract late 1st as well preferring non guaranteed high 2nds as ways to get role players, as that's pretty much all there will be late first or early 2nd this year.
The only value in Smiths deal remains the ability for the recipient of his contract to only have to pay him his partial and waive him after trading away somebody to CLE with a longer deal that matches Smiths full salary. OLD CBA grandfathered...and not many of those exist this summer.
Top 25 protected future 1st or known 2019 late first for taking back a longer deal is the price CLE will ask for to move Smiths deal, and should get it pretty easily.

[DBoys]

Top 25 protected future 1st or known 2019 late first for taking back a longer deal is the price CLE will ask for to move Smiths deal, and should get it pretty easily.

You write this with an assumptiveness that it will happen. I think that's kinda naive to the NBA and the market. Obviously it COULD happen. But I'm really skeptical that it will.

I could see it being an avenue that might work if the deadline was late July. That would give the Cavs a chance to get in the mix with a team who, once July happens, finds out they need more spending room than they expected. But the deadline isn't in July.

The issue is simple supply and demand. So many teams have room already, that I would think there (a) will be few candidates to ask Cavs for more, and (b) will be a lot of alternatives of teams with some leftover, who they can get it from without having to take back 4M in salary and also surrender a 1st round pick. Tons of supply for whoever has a need when it happens, little to no demand in advance (and iffy as to who might be needing it later), therefore the price to get some room will be tiny.

So I expect teams to try to operate WITHOUT eating up dead money off their cap, before they ever start, probably with the hope that their unwanted is a player that someone else will want, or that they can swap their junk for a more desirable (to them) piece someone else doesn't want.

And if it's tiny price, Cavs aren't going to take salary that they would be paying tax on, to do such a deal for a piddling return.

Thus, no deal.

[Stillwater]

Top 25 protected future 1st or known 2019 late first for taking back a longer deal is the price CLE will ask for to move Smiths deal, and should get it pretty easily.

You write this with an assumptiveness that it will happen. I think that's kinda naive to the NBA and the market. Obviously it COULD happen. But I'm really skeptical that it will.

I could see it being an avenue that might work if the deadline was late July. That would give the Cavs a chance to get in the mix with a team who, once July happens, finds out they need more spending room than they expected. But the deadline isn't in July.

The issue is simple supply and demand. So many teams have room already, that I would think there (a) will be few candidates to ask Cavs for more, and (b) will be a lot of alternatives of teams with some leftover, who they can get it from without having to take back 4M in salary and also surrender a 1st round pick. Tons of supply for whoever has a need when it happens, little to no demand in advance (and iffy as to who might be needing it later), therefore the price to get some room will be tiny.

So I expect teams to try to operate WITHOUT eating up dead money off their cap, before they ever start, probably with the hope that their unwanted is a player that someone else will want, or that they can swap their junk for a more desirable (to them) piece someone else doesn't want.

And if it's tiny price, Cavs aren't going to take salary that they would be paying tax on, to do such a deal for a piddling return.

Thus, no deal.

good post... still think when it's all said and done Cavs trade him, maybe it'sa different return taking back a couple of players 1 of which is dead weight on a longer deal to match Smiths full amount the other a player on a longer deal they actually want on the roster instead of just eating bad money etc and a meh 2nd or something.
Either way worse case is they just pay him his partial and get the cap space themselves if no one is interested at the time...but I think somebody will want that savings and be willing to part with a meh late first pretty quickly given that removes the addition of another guaranteed contract drafted player on their books esp if the player they send for matching purposes is useless.