Dwight: Lakers' Experience Made Me Develop Thicker Skin

[olive_triangurl]

Considering that jump-shooters like Kobe are able to make a living on the free-throw line, imagine 24-year-old Jordan in today's NBA! Lightning fast first-step, crazy vertical leap, and his mid-range game was already awesome (for example his 63-point NBA playoff record was mostly jump-shots, and his 69-point game was mostly jump-shots too). How many free-throws would Jordan average in today's NBA? Absurd number, and probably lead to averaging 40ppg.

Who is going to guard him close anyway? Nobody. Because if you guard him close he blows right by you (since you can't hand-check in today's NBA), and that means you have to give him some room, and he'll destroy you with the mid-range jump-shot. Even his 3-pointer was sometimes very good (in 1989-90, Jordan made 92 of 245 three-pointers = .376).

And who is going to stop Jordan in the paint? The 1980s and 1990s had far more intimidating big men than the 2000s. Jordan dunked on them routinely. And then there were Bad Boy Pistons, knocking Jordan's block off, but Jordan still delivered in their faces. Jordan would cruise through today's NBA.

Even 39/40-year-old Jordan averaged 23ppg and 20ppg - including a game where he scored 45 points (10 rebounds, 7 assists) on Jason Kidd's East-leading Nets (and he scored 51 points in the game just before that) - and he was extremely slow compared to his prime, and lacked vertical. And he was carrying the Wizards (with starters like Chris Whitney, Popeye Jones, Jahidi White).

[nikster]

Harden has had the benefit of playing his entire career in a league where defensive rules have been intentionally modified to favor perimeter players. He's had it easy. Harden has a much much better team then MJ at that age. Don't even put Harden in the same sentence. He's an ant compared to the GOAT. He should learn how to actually put effort on playing defense. And his constant acting to get fouls makes him look even more ridiculous.

Please, defenses today are way better than those of the past.

OK guys, you realize that you guys are talking about two different things, right?

There is a natural progression in sports. If you sent the 2014 Bucks back in time to 1964 they would dominate the league. Now common things like the cross-over and ally-oop would absolutely shock them. Offensive and defensive schemes like nothing they'd ever seen. But that doesn't mean the Bucks are a good team.

Jordan absolutely dominated the league in his day. He did things to people that they had never seen. But if you brought him into the future he wouldn't dominate in the same way because everyone in the league grew up watching him and studying his game; it isn't new. Iverson broke countless ankles with his cross-over but now everyone has a cross-over. Since everyone has one, everyone defends it better, too.

So yes, if you brought Jordan into the future and had him play in todays NBA he would be just another good player but that is just because everybody spent so much time watching film and trying to mimic him. He changed the game in countless ways and dominated it in his time like no other.

Until Harden changes how the game is played, and until he is unquestionably the most feared player in his time, it is hard to justify putting him in the same category as Jordan.

So your point is that Jordan isnt a better player, only relatively he is.

[nikster]

Please, defenses today are way better than those of the past.

Wrong, maybe the players are better because they're bigger and stronger. But today's defense is designed to protect the perimeter players. Jordan played in an era when they had just started to change some of the rules, but the defense in terms of what they could do were more brutal by far compared to today.

I dont just mean individual players are better as defenders. Coaches have adjusted their defense according to the rules.

[nikster]

Considering that jump-shooters like Kobe are able to make a living on the free-throw line, imagine 24-year-old Jordan in today's NBA! Lightning fast first-step, crazy vertical leap, and his mid-range game was already awesome

Quick first-step, Crazy leap and a good jumper.Too bad there are no players in the NBA with that skill set...oh wait...
And did you just call Kobe a jump shooter?

[DEEP3CL]

Please, defenses today are way better than those of the past.

Wrong, maybe the players are better because they're bigger and stronger. But today's defense is designed to protect the perimeter players. Jordan played in an era when they had just started to change some of the rules, but the defense in terms of what they could do were more brutal by far compared to today.

I dont just mean individual players are better as defenders. Coaches have adjusted their defense according to the rules.

Yeah I kinda figured you meant that, but that still doesn't make defenses of today any better than those of the past. I came up in an era where teams stretched their defenses that involved 3 quarter court traps and other varieties of defense. Today and going by what the rules allow you to employ, you can just damn near clog the paint and play disguised zones. But I some what agree to what you mean.

[6_Rings]

still won't get him a ring.

imma pretty sure we're in for another Dwightmare when 'Houston we have a problem' makes another cameo.

[cedric76]

U made my day Thx

Lol harden better than MJ, lol I d never thought I d read that

Lol

Thx again

[Pickled Prunes]

Please, defenses today are way better than those of the past.

OK guys, you realize that you guys are talking about two different things, right?

There is a natural progression in sports. If you sent the 2014 Bucks back in time to 1964 they would dominate the league. Now common things like the cross-over and ally-oop would absolutely shock them. Offensive and defensive schemes like nothing they'd ever seen. But that doesn't mean the Bucks are a good team.

Jordan absolutely dominated the league in his day. He did things to people that they had never seen. But if you brought him into the future he wouldn't dominate in the same way because everyone in the league grew up watching him and studying his game; it isn't new. Iverson broke countless ankles with his cross-over but now everyone has a cross-over. Since everyone has one, everyone defends it better, too.

So yes, if you brought Jordan into the future and had him play in todays NBA he would be just another good player but that is just because everybody spent so much time watching film and trying to mimic him. He changed the game in countless ways and dominated it in his time like no other.

Until Harden changes how the game is played, and until he is unquestionably the most feared player in his time, it is hard to justify putting him in the same category as Jordan.

So your point is that Jordan isnt a better player, only relatively he is.

Sure... do you think Wilt would average 50 for a season today? Everything is relative. Hack-a-Wilt? He would likely be dominant if he came up today but if you just took him out of his time and brought him to our time he might not see playing time. The game is so much faster now, team defenses are better and players are way bigger and stronger on average than in Wilt's day.

I guess I'm arguing that it's a pointless argument because Harden grew up studying MJ's game. The game has progressed and players across the board are better today than they were 25 years ago. MJ was special because he was doing things people hadn't seen before he caught the league off guard. The game is constantly progressing but MJ was way ahead of the curve. I am guessing that if he came up today the same would be true.

Harden is an all-star but he is not ahead of the curve in any way. People talk about Lebron or Kobe a few years ago but neither of them were/are dominant in the way MJ was. Both of them play "D" though, so Harden isn't there yet.

[olive_triangurl]

I think Wilt may have struggled with certain players in the 90s, but not in the 2000s.
The 2000s is the weakest era of centers we've seen for several decades.
David Robinson, The Dream, Shaq, Ewing are no longer here.
Wilt would be too athletic and too skillful for the 2000s centers (only Dwight could match his athleticism, but Dwight is not very skillful offensively).
Al Jefferson (21.8ppg 10.8rpg) is dominating the NBA, but he is not close to Wilt's level of athleticism and coordination.
Wilt was 7-foot-1 and 275 pounds. That's very big for such a fast mover. From what I've seen, Wilt moved a bit like Anthony Davis (6-10, 220 pounds), but Wilt is WAY bigger.

[Pickled Prunes]

I think Wilt may have struggled with certain players in the 90s, but not in the 2000s.
The 2000s is the weakest era of centers we've seen for several decades.
David Robinson, The Dream, Shaq, Ewing are no longer here.
Wilt would be too athletic and too skillful for the 2000s centers (only Dwight could match his athleticism, but Dwight is not very skillful offensively).
Al Jefferson (21.8ppg 10.8rpg) is dominating the NBA, but he is not close to Wilt's level of athleticism and coordination.
Wilt was 7-foot-1 and 275 pounds. That's very big for such a fast mover. From what I've seen, Wilt moved a bit like Anthony Davis (6-10, 220 pounds), but Wilt is WAY bigger.

My point was that you can't compare across eras because of the progression of the game. You can't look back at Dr. J and say that it's nothing just because everyone is doing stuff like that now. That would be a ridiculous statement. And you can't compare Harden to Jordan when Harden's not even close to the best player in the league.

On your point:
If Wilt grew up in this era and came into the league now he would be a great center but not if you brought him in for a season with 1962 skills. The game is completely different and way too fast. Wilt looked fast but by today's standards everyone around him was just slow. There are certainly more guys in this time that could guard him and defenders are much better now than 50 years ago. It's a tough call. I think he'd pick it up but he wouldn't average close to 50. But greatness isn't measured by what you could do today but on what you did in your era.

[Ballerhogger]

Wow I just realized, Howard averaged more rebounds, blocks and steals in LA (12.4rpg 2.4bpg 1.1spg) than he does in Houston (12.2rpg 1.8bpg 0.8spg)! And his scoring is only 1.2ppg better in Houston.

he's pretty much maxed out.

[olive_triangurl]

There are certainly more guys in this time that could guard him and defenders are much better now than 50 years ago. It's a tough call. I think he'd pick it up but he wouldn't average close to 50. But greatness isn't measured by what you could do today but on what you did in your era.

I agree. I don't see how anyone could average 50ppg today (or in the 80s/90s either).
To me, Wilt (if he trained in the 90s) would be the same level as Robinson/The Dream/Shaq/Ewing.

Wow I just realized, Howard averaged more rebounds, blocks and steals in LA (12.4rpg 2.4bpg 1.1spg) than he does in Houston (12.2rpg 1.8bpg 0.8spg)! And his scoring is only 1.2ppg better in Houston.

he's pretty much maxed out.

Looks like it.

[DrClutch]

Thicker skin? It made him run lol Kobe was all about working hard hard & putting in 100% plus effort in practice & games, Dwight wanted none of that... If he did well he'd be a 80% plus free throw shooter and his mid range would be bettter

80% plus FT from "hard work"?

Lol. Scottie Pippen averaged 70% for his career. Maybe Scottie should have worked harder...I'm sure MJ wouldn't have pushed him every single practice

Thats just how i feel lol if you a nba player you better git at least 75% or higher if you going to the free throw line constantly

[olive_triangurl]

Free-throws are partly about mental toughness.
And a lot of players make it to the NBA (and NBA stardom) with a lot of talent, a lot of hardwork.....but less than great mental toughness.
LeBron has had times where he hasn't looked mentally tough, and he's won MVPs.
His career free-throw shooting is .747, including .698 in his 4th year, and .712 in his 5th year.