Dwight: I'm An Intelligent Basketball Player

[captlopez0012]

I don't know if you have reading difficulty or perhaps it it's your comprehension that is lacking but I believe I've made my point very clear. The first thing I wrote was "Howard spoke the truth...", meaning I agree with what he said.
Sorry if you are unable to follow.
Also, your disagreement with the points I make does not make them any less accurate. I have yet to see you respond with anything resembling facts.

As I said, I know that dumping on Howard is popular for a certain segment of fans and you apparently find comfort in that crowd. However, I gave you the numbers with regard to Kareem's comments and they speak for themselves.
Much the same as when you said Howard, " has no offensive game whatsoever" and I countered with the fact that the guy has a career average of 18.3 with multiple years of over 20 ppg.

I find it interesting that you say fans hate players "not on a personal level, but as players" because many of the attacks here on Howard have been intensely personal.
Saying someone is "not a high iq person overall" and "nothing in his life on or off the court suggest "high iq", certainly qualifies as personal.

first off, i responded with a nice lengthy post to counter your delusional argument that dwight howard is an offensive player. but you ignored it as it was full of FACTS and educated conclusions that you can not ignore. funny how you respond to every other d12 criticism out there but missed that one. its still waiting for you in the dwight working with hakeem story.

everybodys not dumping on howard b/c they find comfort in the crowd. so many people are dumping on howard b/c he has earned it. hopefully hell repair his image. but as of now, this guy crapped on 2 fan bases and annoyed the sports world w/ 2 years of indecision. not to mention some of the off the court reasons to dislike him. the majority of people on d12s side at this point are rocket fans. everybody else is disgusted w/ him. but i am not hypocritical, delusional, or biased. dwight howard is the best center in the game (not as impressive as it once was). but he is light years from players such as the gasols, brook lopez, andrew bynum (healthy), and tim duncan on the offensive end. stating that dwight howard is not a high iq individual on or off the court and not a mature individual on or off the court is a statement of fact. i would have thought youd appreciate facts. dwight responding with "i could never have won 3 defensive player of the years if i had no bball iq" is a foolish rebuttal. thats like saying "well i have a college degree so i must be intelligent". its not that black and white. dwight is not the first player to make his brand off pure athleticism and little bball iq and technical skill. and what you fail to understand, responding to any hall of fame players criticism is foolish. it is a losing battle. especially when you are already universally despised. but again, howard shows his lack of understanding and is goaded into a verbal war.

[BallerTalk]

It was not intended as an attack but rather a commentary on Kareem's own notorious character history.
If you are familiar then you know that Kareem has been called everything from aloof and off-putting to small and, yes, petty. Some have even gone so far as to call his personality abrasive and caustic.
Although I can't honestly say I've ever read where he has been called vindictive, that was my own descriptive, I maintain it fits.

If you aren't familiar then just ask yourself why a player as legendary and decorated as Kareem is so universally unpopular in NBA circles. Heck, even the Lakers didn't acquiesce to giving him a statue until after he made a big stink about it.

One should always consider the source and knowing Jabbar's history can't help but put his criticisms in a different light.

Speaking as a psychologist, I am usually reticent to pass such harsh judgement on other peoples characters - especially when they're based on hear-say and not first hand experience.

Kareem is known for being notoriously shy. He's not a natural people person; he's quiet, awkward, and anxious when around too many people. He's seem to have gotten over this somewhat (with all the media appearances) but let me just point out the compensations and misconstructions that can emerge from this problem. To people who are naturally sociable, which is to say, to people who experience high levels of emotion, the reasons for why people act the way they do usually goes unnoticed: they're too distracted by their emotions. So, I can totally see people getting a certain image of Kareem based upon these types of confused interactions.

Kareem, like all human beings, is vulnerable to pride-based reactions. No one wants to feel weak. So this reputation you claim Kareem has built for himself from some people might just be his pride-based way to compensate for his awkwardness. I just googled and found an article titled "Jabbar wishes he was more open with fans". Do you see? This is a critical blindspot in almost all human relations: a lack of understanding and patience with the other person. Kareem dealt with a social phobia; he shielded himself from having to experience those high-stress situations by building up a gruff and unapproachable exterior - ala, his reputation. But, if people were just a tad more wise, they would understand that Jabbar was struggling with himself as a person. Now, in his older age, and feeling more secure with who he is as a person, he feels regret. And for him to publicize this regret, to me, demonstrates a high level of maturity.

In any case, this thread is not about Kareem, but about Dwight Howard. I care not about who Kareem is as a person, because to this issue, it is irrelevant. To focus on him is to lose focus on what actually matters: the criticisms he made of Dwight Howards game.

For me, the criticism was warranted, but poorly defined. Dwights problem is an all around lack of maturity. His inability to keep his mouth shut last season, his whininess with referees, his laziness on offense. Dwight is an intelligent player i.e. he is able to follow rules and understand gameplans. His core problem is finding and maintaining an energy level that keeps him fully engaged at all times in the game. His bubbliness certainly detracts from the seriousness that that level of focus requires.

I find interesting the amount of allowances you make for Jabbar while maintain a hardline on Howard.
Of course that is your prerogative , but interesting nonetheless.

Kareem's character is germane to the issue at hand as it goes to motive. It adds perspective and addresses questions about timing.

Again, you have to consider the source.

[BallerTalk]

first off, i responded with a nice lengthy post to counter your delusional argument that dwight howard is an offensive player. but you ignored it as it was full of FACTS and educated conclusions that you can not ignore. funny how you respond to every other d12 criticism out there but missed that one. its still waiting for you in the dwight working with hakeem story.

everybodys not dumping on howard b/c they find comfort in the crowd. so many people are dumping on howard b/c he has earned it. hopefully hell repair his image. but as of now, this guy crapped on 2 fan bases and annoyed the sports world w/ 2 years of indecision. not to mention some of the off the court reasons to dislike him. the majority of people on d12s side at this point are rocket fans. everybody else is disgusted w/ him. but i am not hypocritical, delusional, or biased. dwight howard is the best center in the game (not as impressive as it once was). but he is light years from players such as the gasols, brook lopez, andrew bynum (healthy), and tim duncan on the offensive end. stating that dwight howard is not a high iq individual on or off the court and not a mature individual on or off the court is a statement of fact. i would have thought youd appreciate facts. dwight responding with "i could never have won 3 defensive player of the years if i had no bball iq" is a foolish rebuttal. thats like saying "well i have a college degree so i must be intelligent". its not that black and white. dwight is not the first player to make his brand off pure athleticism and little bball iq and technical skill. and what you fail to understand, responding to any hall of fame players criticism is foolish. it is a losing battle. especially when you are already universally despised. but again, howard shows his lack of understanding and is goaded into a verbal war.

I now see the problem: You don't know the difference between fact and opinion.
That is made obvious by your statement,"stating that dwight howard is not a high iq individual on or off the court and not a mature individual on or off the court is a statement of fact."

Sorry buddy those are NOT facts. Unless you have documented results of IQ tests Howard has taken, including the metaphorical "basketball IQ" test (lol), then it's all speculative. Furthermore, the issue of maturity is inherently subjective.

So, given that you can't make the distinction, any further discussion with you on the matter is pointless.

[easiestplayfts]

Do intelligent men have 5 baby mommas?

[SC Grizz]

As a Grizzlies fan this post is borderline insane.

You think Marc Gasol was/is not more central to his team's success than Dwight Howard? Go look at any advanced statistics in existence to be proven wrong.

How many NBA All-Stars has Dwight Howard played with versus how many Memphis has had ALL TIME?

Memphis - three all-stars EVER. Pau Gasol (not there at the same time as Marc), Z-bo twice (w/ Marc there and some would argue because of Marc), and Marc Gasol once

Dwight Howard - Steve Nash, Kobe Bryant, Metta World Peace/Ron Artest, Jameer Nelson and Rashard Lewis (2009)

Actually, the advanced stats support my statement pretty well. You may want to check your source if you've been told different.

And nice try at the shell game but if you are going to count Steve Nash and Metta World Peace as "All-Stars" Howard has played with (laughable) then you have to count Allen Iverson and Gilbert Arenas for Marc Gasol.
Now that's insane.

For the record, I have no quarrel with Gasol, I'm actually a fan of his game. It's just that when you offer him up in comparison to Howard the way Jabbar did (as a means of detraction) the numbers simply don't support it.

Well Marc outplayed him on Berry's Wage of Wins scores this year. That is sheer Wins that a player is responsible for (not trying to be a jerk just in case you don't know).

On years where Dwight was the the guy you would describe as "the only good player" on some solid Orlando teams he did rate out very favorably on WoWs.

Also - On/Off Stats for Howard (12-13) - http://www.82games.com/1213/12LAL16.HTM#onoff

Marc Gasol (12-13) - http://www.82games.com/1213/12MEM19.HTM#onoff

Just so you know those numbers are also better than Dwight's (11-12) Orlando numbers. I am sure you and Dwight could make excuses for why that is though...

As for the "shell game" I am sure that we both know that Kobe and Nash were/are better players than Arenas and Iverson at the times when each played with Howard. If you want to argue that Nash was not as good he sure was a hell of a lot better than Arenas. Iverson lasted 2 games into the season so that one doesn't even hold water to a Grizzlies fan.

I mean to take nothing away from the skills Howard has - being athletic as hell (quick, elusive, dynamic) and being big (not just tall, but strong). He can't shoot a jumper or free throw. He has not learned how to pass out of a double team in what I guess has been a decade. His career assist to turnover ratio leaves something to be desired as well.

Let's just see how he does in Houston before declaring him the future MVP and all...

[captlopez0012]

I now see the problem: You don't know the difference between fact and opinion.
That is made obvious by your statement,"stating that dwight howard is not a high iq individual on or off the court and not a mature individual on or off the court is a statement of fact."

Sorry buddy those are NOT facts. Unless you have documented results of IQ tests Howard has taken, including the metaphorical "basketball IQ" test (lol), then it's all speculative. Furthermore, the issue of maturity is inherently subjective.

so i guess you never have an opinion on anyones intelligence level. how often do we look at anyones iq tests? and there is no test for bball iq. gotta watch and understand the game which you obviously do not do. its called educated conclusions. and you are playing diversion games b/c you know you have a losing argument. to sum up your opinion of dwight howard: he is a high iq, high bball iq, mature, offensive-minded, defensive beast of a center (que the laughter). and do not try to counter and say your opinion is indifference. if that was the case, you have no business attacking others opinions.

[BallerTalk]

I now see the problem: You don't know the difference between fact and opinion.
That is made obvious by your statement,"stating that dwight howard is not a high iq individual on or off the court and not a mature individual on or off the court is a statement of fact."

Sorry buddy those are NOT facts. Unless you have documented results of IQ tests Howard has taken, including the metaphorical "basketball IQ" test (lol), then it's all speculative. Furthermore, the issue of maturity is inherently subjective.

so i guess you never have an opinion on anyones intelligence level. how often do we look at anyones iq tests? and there is no test for bball iq. gotta watch and understand the game which you obviously do not do. its called educated conclusions. and you are playing diversion games b/c you know you have a losing argument. to sum up your opinion of dwight howard: he is a high iq, high bball iq, mature, offensive-minded, defensive beast of a center (que the laughter). and do not try to counter and say your opinion is indifference. if that was the case, you have no business attacking others opinions.

Dude, you are all over the place. First you say you present facts but when that is proven false you say I'm attacking your opinion. Which is it; fact, opinion, or "educated conclusion (whatever that is)?
Then you make the weakest move of all and break out the straw man argument.
Stop it.

Why not just cut your losses and come to terms with the fact that your disdain and criticism of Howard is based primarily on emotion. It's okay, fans get emotional sometimes.
Just don't foolishly try to argue when it is revealed that the facts don't support your emotionally based opinion, much the same as the facts don't support Jabbar's claim that Howard doesn't help his teams win in comparison to Gasol.

[Rated T By CBRA]

HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHHAHAAHAHAA!!!! If he actually, honestly means that...just wow. In need of a big reality check...

[Cyborg21]

Dwight is hilarious if he actually believes this.

[TyCobb]

Well played RealGM.