Sloan: Morey, Karl Discuss Why Teams Must Play Fast

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Sloan: Morey, Karl Discuss Why Teams Must Play Fast 

Post#1 » by RealGM Wiretap » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:07 pm

George Karl and Daryl Morey agreed that you cannot play a slow pace in today's NBA in a panel at the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference. Defenses are just too good, they said, with Morey citing Tom Thibodeau's ability to smother teams deep in the shot clock. The data show clearly that early scores are vital. 


Morey discussed the different use of Dwight Howard by the Houston Rockets. Stan Van Gundy ran set plays for Howard when he was with the Orlando Magic, but he is getting the ball with the Rockets in unpredictable situations and scoring efficiently.


A quick-hitting, fast-thinking attack wins.


Morey recalled reports the Rockets use to run on the effectiveness of different plays called by then-head coach Jeff Van Gundy was with Houston. Above all the set plays was a play categorized as Random, when a play call broke down and a random screen was set to free up a scorer. This was the most effective play.


Karl thought back to the time after the Denver Nuggets acquired Raymond Felton. Karl said he thought Felton was perhaps his best guard at the time but Lawson had the starting job. So to improve Denver's ability to make fast decisions, Karl played them together. Karl believes this may have started a trend in the league of a two-point guard offense. 


The panel discussed fouling up three in the closing seconds. Even though the numbers support taking the foul, it's not done widely. Karl cited a lack of devoted practice time to making sure teams can execute a two-shot foul. 


Morey said you should win the game almost always either way, but cited coaches wanting to show confidence in their defense to stop the three, or just the embarrassment factor of not wanting to give up the three-point foul.

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Re: Sloan: Morey, Karl Discuss Why Teams Must Play Fast 

Post#2 » by Valid » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:11 pm

Guess that's why Denver won all of those playoff series. Oh...
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Re: Sloan: Morey, Karl Discuss Why Teams Must Play Fast 

Post#3 » by DLeagueAllStars » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:16 pm

Valid wrote:Guess that's why Denver won all of those playoff series. Oh...



Wouldnt it just be they ran into a team that uhmm, can shoot early and put up alot of points also... Lastly they also were a better defensive team to boot?

Faster, better shooting and better D is why DEN lost that series.
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Re: Sloan: Morey, Karl Discuss Why Teams Must Play Fast 

Post#4 » by writersblock » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:24 pm

I don't think this applies to the playoffs. Decades of data show that playoff games are a grind-it-out defense and offense game, not a fast-paced score fest.
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Re: Sloan: Morey, Karl Discuss Why Teams Must Play Fast 

Post#5 » by kenwood3333 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:00 pm

writersblock wrote:I don't think this applies to the playoffs. Decades of data show that playoff games are a grind-it-out defense and offense game, not a fast-paced score fest.


yes, don't apply when games actually matters
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Re: Sloan: Morey, Karl Discuss Why Teams Must Play Fast 

Post#6 » by Shem » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:51 pm

Valid wrote:Guess that's why Denver won all of those playoff series. Oh...

Are you saying that Brian Shaw is doing much better? ;)
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Re: Sloan: Morey, Karl Discuss Why Teams Must Play Fast 

Post#7 » by your boy » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:11 pm

Shem wrote:
Valid wrote:Guess that's why Denver won all of those playoff series. Oh...

Are you saying that Brian Shaw is doing much better? ;)


This year they're better off being a lottery team then a first round exit. They should have two decent picks in this years draft.
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Re: Sloan: Morey, Karl Discuss Why Teams Must Play Fast 

Post#8 » by BallerTalk » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:16 pm

Valid wrote:Guess that's why Denver won all of those playoff series. Oh...

The data never lies...it's the application that sometimes fails.
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Re: Sloan: Morey, Karl Discuss Why Teams Must Play Fast 

Post#9 » by oaktownwarriors87 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:35 pm

It's good until you need to eat up the clock or until you need a high percentage shot at the need of the game. That's why George Karl hasn't won anything.
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Re: Sloan: Morey, Karl Discuss Why Teams Must Play Fast 

Post#10 » by whitehops » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:38 pm

Miami must be an exception to the rule... they walk the ball up the court all the time and just have amazing half-court execution. combine that with being extremely efficient on their fastbreaks (they don't fastbreak that often) and you have an elite offense.
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Re: Sloan: Morey, Karl Discuss Why Teams Must Play Fast 

Post#11 » by your boy » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:48 pm

whitehops wrote:Miami must be an exception to the rule... they walk the ball up the court all the time and just have amazing half-court execution. combine that with being extremely efficient on their fastbreaks (they don't fastbreak that often) and you have an elite offense.


Having Lebron Wade and Bosh on your team gives you an exception to the rule, having those 3 players alone gives you an elite offense.
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Re: Sloan: Morey, Karl Discuss Why Teams Must Play Fast 

Post#12 » by hype_2004 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:26 pm

Pringles is smiling somewhere, but we all know grind it out inside outside halfcourt game wins the championship or else that Phoenix would have been a dynasty during Nash tenure.
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Re: Sloan: Morey, Karl Discuss Why Teams Must Play Fast 

Post#13 » by thelead » Sat Mar 1, 2014 3:08 am

your boy wrote:
Shem wrote:
Valid wrote:Guess that's why Denver won all of those playoff series. Oh...

Are you saying that Brian Shaw is doing much better? ;)


This year they're better off being a lottery team then a first round exit. They should have two decent picks in this years draft.

They don't.... they'll get to keep only one pick. The magic get one of their lottery picks from the Howard trade :D
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Re: Sloan: Morey, Karl Discuss Why Teams Must Play Fast 

Post#14 » by your boy » Sat Mar 1, 2014 4:44 am

thelead wrote:
your boy wrote:
Shem wrote:Are you saying that Brian Shaw is doing much better? ;)


This year they're better off being a lottery team then a first round exit. They should have two decent picks in this years draft.

They don't.... they'll get to keep only one pick. The magic get one of their lottery picks from the Howard trade :D


damnn, so they traded Afflalo and a first round pick to get Iggy for one season?
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Re: Sloan: Morey, Karl Discuss Why Teams Must Play Fast 

Post#15 » by thelead » Sat Mar 1, 2014 4:50 am

your boy wrote:
thelead wrote:
your boy wrote:
This year they're better off being a lottery team then a first round exit. They should have two decent picks in this years draft.

They don't.... they'll get to keep only one pick. The magic get one of their lottery picks from the Howard trade :D


damnn, so they traded Afflalo and a first round pick to get Iggy for one season?

Yup... Magic fans have been tracking it all year. Even better, it's unprotected. We get the worse of their two picks. Theoretically (there's something like a .004% chance of it happening) the Magic could win the draft, NY get's the second pick, Denver gets the third and the magic walk away with the #1 & #3 picks this year.
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Re: Sloan: Morey, Karl Discuss Why Teams Must Play Fast 

Post#16 » by your boy » Sat Mar 1, 2014 6:20 am

thelead wrote:
your boy wrote:
thelead wrote:They don't.... they'll get to keep only one pick. The magic get one of their lottery picks from the Howard trade :D


damnn, so they traded Afflalo and a first round pick to get Iggy for one season?

Yup... Magic fans have been tracking it all year. Even better, it's unprotected. We get the worse of their two picks. Theoretically (there's something like a .004% chance of it happening) the Magic could win the draft, NY get's the second pick, Denver gets the third and the magic walk away with the #1 & #3 picks this year.


Wow that trade worked out great for the Magic. Dwight was gone so they had to get rid of him, and they got Afflalo (super underrated) Vucevic and a first round pick from Denver. They're probably going to end up with two great picks in a great draft.
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Re: Sloan: Morey, Karl Discuss Why Teams Must Play Fast 

Post#17 » by ybnd » Sat Mar 1, 2014 7:05 am

kenwood3333 wrote:
writersblock wrote:I don't think this applies to the playoffs. Decades of data show that playoff games are a grind-it-out defense and offense game, not a fast-paced score fest.


yes, don't apply when games actually matters


Fast break buckets are just as important as buckets in the halfcourt...the team who makes the most of their possessions wins the game...the more possessions you have the better chance you have to score if you score the most you win....slowing it down gives the defense more time to set up and increases the offenses chance to make some sort of error....but some players...mostly the new up and coming generation of players cant play in a slowed down game and it throws of their rhythm...so slowing it down is still a great strategy to use to throw certain teams paces off or a certain player....its like going from a man to a zone defense....realistically the slow down offense was last generation....the teams that are winning and competing for a title these days arent slow down teams...also players are getting bigger and stronger but dumber...some of these dudes cant run thru a play but they can run like hell jump like hell and dunk the ball
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Re: Sloan: Morey, Karl Discuss Why Teams Must Play Fast 

Post#18 » by Pickled Prunes » Sun Mar 2, 2014 4:18 am

hype_2004 wrote:Pringles is smiling somewhere, but we all know grind it out inside outside halfcourt game wins the championship or else that Phoenix would have been a dynasty during Nash tenure.


Quick offense AND a solid defense wins in the post season. But yes, if the refs called the same fouls in the post season as the regular season than the Suns would have been a dynasty.... but they don't and never have as far as I know.

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