Tom Thibodeau's Contract With Bulls Contains Offset Language

[RealGM Wiretap]

Jerry Reinsdorf remains the wild card in the contentious battle between the Chicago Bulls' front office and Tom Thibodeau.

Both the front office and Thibodeau would like to part ways, but the Bulls don't want to fire him to have him coach another team next year without compensation.

Thibodeau's contract contain offset language, meaning the Bulls' financial commitment would be "offset" by the amount he would make if hired by another team.

Reinsdorf, according to several sources, was extremely upset with Thibodeau after Jeff Van Gundy criticized the organization during a January broadcast on ESPN for historically undermining coaches.

Reinsdorf, who has served as an occasional oasis for Thibodeau during his rocky relationship with management, discussed the incident with Thibodeau.

Via K.C. Johnson/Chicago Tribune

[Pickled Prunes]

Reinsdorf... was upset with Thibodeau after Jeff Van Gundy criticized the (Bulls) organization

Shouldn't he be upset with Van Gundy then? It sounds like we have the beginning of a story here but clearly some information is missing. It was so nice when writers had editors that would make them write a coherent cause/effect story before they published.

What we have here is:
cause: Jeff Van Gundy criticized the Bulls
effect: Jerry Reinsdorf got upset at Tom Thibodeau

[Bondo]

Reinsdorf... was upset with Thibodeau after Jeff Van Gundy criticized the (Bulls) organization

Shouldn't he be upset with Van Gundy then? It sounds like we have the beginning of a story here but clearly some information is missing. It was so nice when writers had editors that would make them write a coherent cause/effect story before they published.

What we have here is:
cause: Jeff Van Gundy criticized the Bulls
effect: Jerry Reinsdorf got upset at Tom Thibodeau

Thibs and Gundy are good friends...its pretty obvious it was kind of a leak on Thibs side..thru Van gundy.
Long story short anyway

[IWishIWasHarden]

Reinsdorf... was upset with Thibodeau after Jeff Van Gundy criticized the (Bulls) organization

Shouldn't he be upset with Van Gundy then? It sounds like we have the beginning of a story here but clearly some information is missing. It was so nice when writers had editors that would make them write a coherent cause/effect story before they published.

What we have here is:
cause: Jeff Van Gundy criticized the Bulls
effect: Jerry Reinsdorf got upset at Tom Thibodeau

Thibs and Gundy are good friends...its pretty obvious it was kind of a leak on Thibs side..thru Van gundy.
Long story short anyway

I think it's far from obvious. This reporting makes it very difficult to understand. I didn't pick that up and I was left thinking the same thing.

[LordBaldric]

Reinsdorf can pound sand.

[Wingy]

Reinsdorf can pound sand.

[Thorn]

He is mad at Tom for something Jeff said on a TV broadcast? Unless Tom gave Jeff inside information only TOM knew... how can you fault Tom for the actions of another person?

You stole a cookie? Well I am going to punish your sister, let that be a lesson to you.

[12footrim]

This is so stupid. You want to fire the guy, but since other teams think he is a good coach and want to hire him as soon as you do you are not willing to because you want to try to squeeze a pick out of someone. WTF. Gezz just fire the guy and move on, this said the other team would pay offset meaning you don't have to pay him but whatever the difference is. I wouldn't budge. I'd let them do whatever they were going to do and then go sit on my ass for several years and milk the rest of the bulls contract dry if they wanted to play this crap.

[The_Hater]

This is so stupid. You want to fire the guy, but since other teams think he is a good coach and want to hire him as soon as you do you are not willing to because you want to try to squeeze a pick out of someone. WTF. Gezz just fire the guy and move on, this said the other team would pay offset meaning you don't have to pay him but whatever the difference is. I wouldn't budge. I'd let them do whatever they were going to do and then go sit on my ass for several years and milk the rest of the bulls contract dry if they wanted to play this crap.

On the flip side you can't really blame the Bulls for trying to maximize an asset, that what smart GM's generally try and do. Doc Rivers netted the Celtics a late 1st round pick just 2 years ago so it's not unreasonable to think the Bulls could get the same for Thibs. Plus it's not like there's a rush to get something figured out here immediately either, the current season isn't even over yet.

As for Thibs being stubborn and playing hard ball with the Bulls, what good does that do him if he wants to coach? He certainly doesn't seem like a guy who wants to sit on his hands and collect a paycheck. Most people who reach the top of their profession don't think that way.

[kenwood3333]

I assume the contract also has some sort of penalty clause if the coach decided to quit. Otherwise he could have just left with no compensation and make about the same if not more with another team easily. He is only getting 5M/year from the Bulls anyway.

[12footrim]

On the flip side you can't really blame the Bulls for trying to maximize an asset, that what smart GM's generally try and do.

Everyone knows the Bulls are going to fire him so NO one is going to give up any assets like that. The teams that want him have already made it clear.

Doc Rivers netted the Celtics a late 1st round pick just 2 years ago so it's not unreasonable to think the Bulls could get the same for Thibs.

The difference is Doc Rivers was willing to stay and the Celtics were willing to keep him if no one offered compensation. Much different scenario and one with leverage.

Plus it's not like there's a rush to get something figured out here immediately either, the current season isn't even over yet.

The bulls are threatening to wait out the other job openings and then fire him just so he gets no job. Well guess what, then you get NO salary relief and are on the hook for his contract while he sits on his ass. They are cheap too and this isn't exactly smart if they have to play several million they wouldn't have you could apply to the luxury tax or whatever just because you want to screw the guy over. Screwing yourself over.

As for Thibs being stubborn and playing hard ball with the Bulls, what good does that do him if he wants to coach?

It's not on him to fire himself and walk away from the money he's owed. That's stupid. He has a contract either way, he's getting paid if it's on a sideline or it's laying on a beach or in a recliner.

He certainly doesn't seem like a guy who wants to sit on his hands and collect a paycheque. Most people who reach the top of their profession don't think that way.

Most of the people fired to me seem to step away for a couple years and collect the money owed to them because it's usually more than they could make actually. You don't see a lot jumping back into jobs weeks later. There are other outlets to stay in the game to. Thibs seems like a guy that would want to stay in but he's not walking away from money I bet, not many people would.

[whitemamba12]

It would be completely ridiculous for a team to give up assets for any coach let alone Thibs. Coaching means very little in the NBA. The difference between a good coach and an average coach is marginal at best. The Clippers acquisition of Doc Rivers was unimpactful and certainly not worth the draft choice they gave up for him. What little improvement they've made should be attributed to Blake and Deandre's growth as players and not to some coach. A team would be better served to hire one of the many available choices on the market (Jackson, Van Gundy, Brooks, Skiles, Del Negro, McMillan) versus giving up assets to get Thibs. Players win championships, not coaches.

[The_Hater]

On the flip side you can't really blame the Bulls for trying to maximize an asset, that what smart GM's generally try and do.

Everyone knows the Bulls are going to fire him so NO one is going to give up any assets like that. The teams that want him have already made it clear.

I don't think it's that black and white. If 3-4 teams want Thibs as their coach, the only way to assure that happens is to trade for him. Or else you just end up in a bidding war (for far more $$$ than his current contract) or end up losing him to another team. The only time you have an untradeable asset is when there's only 1 other team interested in his services.

If it ends up that nobody will trade for him than the Bulls probably will let him go but I'm not sure how anyone can be 100% certain of that fact right now. It's not like deals like this generally get made while the season is still ongoing and neither of us no for certain what conversations have taken place behind closed doors. Or maybe the selling price ends up being far less like 1-2 2nd round picks. I think most teams would give up a couple of 2nd round picks to land a top 5 coach. That in itself may push the price higher.

[The_Hater]

It would be completely ridiculous for a team to give up assets for any coach let alone Thibs. Coaching means very little in the NBA. The difference between a good coach and an average coach is marginal at best. The Clippers acquisition of Doc Rivers was unimpactful and certainly not worth the draft choice they gave up for him. What little improvement they've made should be attributed to Blake and Deandre's growth as players and not to some coach. A team would be better served to hire one of the many available choices on the market (Jackson, Van Gundy, Brooks, Skiles, Del Negro, McMillan) versus giving up assets to get Thibs. Players win championships, not coaches.

I used to have the exact same school of thought as you do here. It's a player's league and coaches don't make a huge difference. But I think this has started to change the last few years, at least to the point where having a top coach is a lot more important than it used to be. Both offensive and defensive systems have become far more complex and strategy, especially playoff strategy, is becoming more important too. Gone are the days where you just give the ball to your best player in his favourite spot and watch him go 1 on 1.

That doesn't mean that having a great coach is nearly as important as having a great player, it's obviously not, but how did Atlanta win 60 games this year without a single top 20 player? And team's have been trying to copy San Antonio's system for years.

[12footrim]

On the flip side you can't really blame the Bulls for trying to maximize an asset, that what smart GM's generally try and do.

Everyone knows the Bulls are going to fire him so NO one is going to give up any assets like that. The teams that want him have already made it clear.

I don't think it's that black and white. If 3-4 teams want Thibs as their coach, the only way to assure that happens is to trade for him. Or else you just end up in a bidding war (for far more $$$ than his current contract) or end up losing him to another team. The only time you have an untradeable asset is when there's only 1 other team interested in his services.

If it ends up that nobody will trade for him than the Bulls probably will let him go but I'm not sure how anyone can be 100% certain of that fact right now. It's not like deals like this generally get made while the season is still ongoing and neither of us no for certain what conversations have taken place behind closed doors. Or maybe the selling price ends up being far less like 1-2 2nd round picks. I think most teams would give up a couple of 2nd round picks to land a top 5 coach. That in itself may push the price higher.

There are only like 2 jobs open I believe currently, and the Magic said in an article last week on real GM that they would give up nothing for Thibs. I think the pelicans have even less insensitive to because it's an attractive job for a lot of coaches and probably can't because they owe a pick I believe for Asik.

[boomershadow]

Reinsdorf... was upset with Thibodeau after Jeff Van Gundy criticized the (Bulls) organization

Shouldn't he be upset with Van Gundy then? It sounds like we have the beginning of a story here but clearly some information is missing. It was so nice when writers had editors that would make them write a coherent cause/effect story before they published.

What we have here is:
cause: Jeff Van Gundy criticized the Bulls
effect: Jerry Reinsdorf got upset at Tom Thibodeau

A lot of people at the time thought Thibs was expressing his opinions through jvg, one of his friends, through which he took a shot at the bulls fo on national tv.

[The_Hater]

There are only like 2 jobs open I believe currently, and the Magic said in an article last week on real GM that they would give up nothing for Thibs. I think the pelicans have even less insensitive to because it's an attractive job for a lot of coaches and probably can't because they owe a pick I believe for Asik.

Sure but it's only May, the season isn't even over yet. There are likely a couple of GM's out there who would let their current coach go if they knew Thibs was available as an upgrade. Who knows, the Cavs might even be in the market. And before you claim that the Bulls would never trade Thibs to Cleveland, they would definitely do that if he was going to go there regardless of being traded or fired.

The problem I have with your stance is that you seem 100% convinced that nobody will trade for Thibs. There are no 100% certainties in life and I think there's better than an even chance on this trade happening in the next 4-6 weeks.