RealGM

The Dallas Mavericks traded away Jae Crowder, Brandan Wright, Jameer Nelson and a future first round pick to the Boston Celtics for Rajon Rondo in a deal that has become one of the worst moves in the NBA in recent memory.

Nelson was not giving the Mavericks adequate minutes that season at point guard and Dirk Nowitzki pushed for the trade.

"The Rondo deal, that's the one that stands out," said MacMahon on the Dunc'd On Podcast with Nate Duncan. "Rick Carlisle told them he did not want him. He said he was going to kill the spacing. He said Rondo is going to be a really bad fit. But essentially what happened there, and Rick stood down once he understood this, Dirk wanted the deal done. Dirk has traded for two point guard during his time. He's traded for Jason Kidd; that one helped deliver a championship here. Got off to a rocky start but certainly ended up with a ring. He made one great deal for a point guard while the Rondo trade was a total disaster."

Rondo was benched by the Mavericks after Game 2 of their first round series against the Rockets.

Via Tim MacMahon/ESPN

So you're telling me that Lebron isn't the only player/gm?

This is why many players should never be GM no matter how great a player you are (another example is the Bobcats when MJ was making GM decisions for them).

OnceUponADime wrote:This is why players should never be GM no matter how great a player you are (another example is the Bobcats when MJ was making GM decisions for them).

Jerry West begs to differ.

OnceUponADime wrote:This is why players should never be GM no matter how great a player you are (another example is the Bobcats when MJ was making GM decisions for them).

This is so obnoxious and stupid, I'm not certain it deserved a response. Jerry West, Danny Ainge, Steve Kerr, Larry Bird, Mitch Kupchak, Pat Riley, Joe Dumars, Rod Thorn are all literally champions, many of them MULTIPLE times as GMs. It's a joke to make such blanket statements, especially when you're so blatantly wrong. You can do better.

You can also argue players like LeBron who heavily influence the front office WHILE being a player or coaches such as Phil Jackson in LA/CHI or Doc in BOS that have major impact on personnel decisions who were also ex-players. Doc hasn't done much as a GM because he has been given minimal opportunities to do so. He had a core of great talent and little cap room to work around it. Phil has picked a great prospect but the sample size is too small IMO.

Basically, you're just plain wrong.

I_Socrates wrote:This is so obnoxious and stupid, I'm not certain it deserved a response. Jerry West, Danny Ainge, Steve Kerr, Larry Bird, Mitch Kupchak, Pat Riley, Joe Dumars, Rod Thorn are all literally champions, many of them MULTIPLE times as GMs. It's a joke to make such blanket statements, especially when you're so blatantly wrong. You can do better.

You can also argue players like LeBron who heavily influence the front office WHILE being a player or coaches such as Phil Jackson in LA/CHI or Doc in BOS that have major impact on personnel decisions who were also ex-players. Doc hasn't done much as a GM because he has been given minimal opportunities to do so. He had a core of great talent and little cap room to work around it. Phil has picked a great prospect but the sample size is too small IMO.
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I was wrong in that of course there are exceptions like Jerry West.

That said, your list isn't all that great. Steve Kerr was an awful GM for the Suns and he traded away a good thing they had with Marion to get Shaq who was fat and slow and destroyed their run n gun style which worked so well for them. You can ask Pacers fans if they think Larry Bird is a good GM cause I'm sure many of them have soured on him after firing a good coach in Vogel for Nate freaking McMillan. Not to mention the Rick Carslie situation they had as well. And Joe Dumars? Are you joking? Yea he won a title in 2004 but almost every Pistion fan hated him with a passion during his last years in Detroit. And LeBron is not a good GM, many of the Heat and Cavs roster weaknesses were because of his weird love fetish for scrubs like Mike Bibby, Mike Miller, James Jones, the old and washed up Ilgauskas in Miami, keeping Hickson instead of trading him for Amare in CLE, Shabazz Napier etc.

And I KNOW you aren't trying to sell me on Doc Rivers being a good GM. I KNOOOOOOW you aren't trying to make excuses for him. Seriously, you're not are you? I'd need 2 or 3 hours to write out a 14 page essay detailing how bad a GM he is.

OnceUponADime wrote:

I_Socrates wrote:This is so obnoxious and stupid, I'm not certain it deserved a response. Jerry West, Danny Ainge, Steve Kerr, Larry Bird, Mitch Kupchak, Pat Riley, Joe Dumars, Rod Thorn are all literally champions, many of them MULTIPLE times as GMs. It's a joke to make such blanket statements, especially when you're so blatantly wrong. You can do better.

You can also argue players like LeBron who heavily influence the front office WHILE being a player or coaches such as Phil Jackson in LA/CHI or Doc in BOS that have major impact on personnel decisions who were also ex-players. Doc hasn't done much as a GM because he has been given minimal opportunities to do so. He had a core of great talent and little cap room to work around it. Phil has picked a great prospect but the sample size is too small IMO.
.

I was wrong in that of course there are exceptions like Jerry West.

That said, your list isn't all that great. Steve Kerr was an awful GM for the Suns and he traded away a good thing they had with Marion to get Shaq who was fat and slow and destroyed their run n gun style which worked so well for them. You can ask Pacers fans if they think Larry Bird is a good GM cause I'm sure many of them have soured on him after firing a good coach in Vogel for Nate freaking McMillan. Not to mention the Rick Carslie situation they had as well. And Joe Dumars? Are you joking? Yea he won a title in 2004 but almost every Pistion fan hated him with a passion during his last years in Detroit. And LeBron is not a good GM, many of the Heat and Cavs roster weaknesses were because of his weird love fetish for scrubs like Mike Bibby, Mike Miller, James Jones, the old and washed up Ilgauskas in Miami, keeping Hickson instead of trading him for Amare in CLE, Shabazz Napier etc.

And I KNOW you aren't trying to sell me on Doc Rivers being a good GM. I KNOOOOOOW you aren't trying to make excuses for him. Seriously, you're not are you? I'd need 2 or 3 hours to write out a 14 page essay detailing how bad a GM he is.

I'm a Phoenix fan... I'd know if Kerr did an "awful" job. Marion wanted out, that was not Kerr's fault he inherited that. He was a good GM who made strong prudent moves, nothing flashy but he was good. If Larry Bird isn't THE definition of a good GM, I don't know what is. You also forgot Riley, Kupchak, Thorn.... oh and Dumars was an excellent GM until he was handed free reigns where he messed up. He put together a championship team, there have only been so many of those... most non-players haven't been able to get one on their resume now have they? LeBron isn't a good GM? Ok man, then I guess we're basing things off fantasy ... quite evident from your ridiculous notion that Hickson for Amar'e was ever available to the Cavs.

Bottom line is this - some of THE most successful GM's and coaches in the league are ex-NBA players BECAUSE the experience you gain as a player can only help in pursuing such a career. Have all of them succeeded? Of course not. But your blanket statement claim is just false and cannot be backed up by any factual information.

Did MJ make stupid moves? Sure. So did almost every other GM that has never played an NBA game in his life. What's your point.. because what you stated clearly isn't going to stand as one.

this is so much easier to criticise with the benefit of hindsight.

while now the trade would be graded an F for the mavs, at the time, most would have graded it an A, including myself.

If this is true than Dirk should never be a GM. This was a Mark Cuban deal that Dirk signed off on. Rondo is an overrated assist stat padder. Despite Jameer Nelsons slump that season, Dallas Mavericks were unstoppable offensively pre Rondo. Rick Carlisle needs to sign off on any and all trades to prevent bad fitting pieces from making their way to Dallas.

Sad thing is they had a historic offense going. Wright and Chandler were shooting like 70-75% and Dallas was leading the league in dunks by a mile at the time. It was running like a finely tuned machine. ThenJae Crowder and a 1st rounder you also threw away when Crowder is better than their 24 million dollar man Barnes IMO and makes 7 million a year. Will have a lasting impact too on the franchise.

12footrim wrote:Sad thing is they had a historic offense going. Wright and Chandler were shooting like 70-75% and Dallas was leading the league in dunks by a mile at the time. It was running like a finely tuned machine. ThenJae Crowder and a 1st rounder you also threw away when Crowder is better than their 24 million dollar man Barnes IMO and makes 7 million a year. Will have a lasting impact too on the franchise.

Chandler wanted way too much money but this where it feel apart .

It's too bad management chose to ignore Carlisle.

Can't blame dirk. His window was closing and Cuban kept making dumb moves. No one knew crowder would become what he is now.

Dirk should have pushed harder but Cuban was too busy with Presidential Politics and Money Market interviews to worry himself with free agency.

I_Socrates wrote:

OnceUponADime wrote:

I_Socrates wrote:This is so obnoxious and stupid, I'm not certain it deserved a response. Jerry West, Danny Ainge, Steve Kerr, Larry Bird, Mitch Kupchak, Pat Riley, Joe Dumars, Rod Thorn are all literally champions, many of them MULTIPLE times as GMs. It's a joke to make such blanket statements, especially when you're so blatantly wrong. You can do better.

You can also argue players like LeBron who heavily influence the front office WHILE being a player or coaches such as Phil Jackson in LA/CHI or Doc in BOS that have major impact on personnel decisions who were also ex-players. Doc hasn't done much as a GM because he has been given minimal opportunities to do so. He had a core of great talent and little cap room to work around it. Phil has picked a great prospect but the sample size is too small IMO.
.

I was wrong in that of course there are exceptions like Jerry West.

That said, your list isn't all that great. Steve Kerr was an awful GM for the Suns and he traded away a good thing they had with Marion to get Shaq who was fat and slow and destroyed their run n gun style which worked so well for them. You can ask Pacers fans if they think Larry Bird is a good GM cause I'm sure many of them have soured on him after firing a good coach in Vogel for Nate freaking McMillan. Not to mention the Rick Carslie situation they had as well. And Joe Dumars? Are you joking? Yea he won a title in 2004 but almost every Pistion fan hated him with a passion during his last years in Detroit. And LeBron is not a good GM, many of the Heat and Cavs roster weaknesses were because of his weird love fetish for scrubs like Mike Bibby, Mike Miller, James Jones, the old and washed up Ilgauskas in Miami, keeping Hickson instead of trading him for Amare in CLE, Shabazz Napier etc.

And I KNOW you aren't trying to sell me on Doc Rivers being a good GM. I KNOOOOOOW you aren't trying to make excuses for him. Seriously, you're not are you? I'd need 2 or 3 hours to write out a 14 page essay detailing how bad a GM he is.

I'm a Phoenix fan... I'd know if Kerr did an "awful" job. Marion wanted out, that was not Kerr's fault he inherited that. He was a good GM who made strong prudent moves, nothing flashy but he was good. If Larry Bird isn't THE definition of a good GM, I don't know what is. You also forgot Riley, Kupchak, Thorn.... oh and Dumars was an excellent GM until he was handed free reigns where he messed up. He put together a championship team, there have only been so many of those... most non-players haven't been able to get one on their resume now have they? LeBron isn't a good GM? Ok man, then I guess we're basing things off fantasy ... quite evident from your ridiculous notion that Hickson for Amar'e was ever available to the Cavs.

Bottom line is this - some of THE most successful GM's and coaches in the league are ex-NBA players BECAUSE the experience you gain as a player can only help in pursuing such a career. Have all of them succeeded? Of course not. But your blanket statement claim is just false and cannot be backed up by any factual information.

Did MJ make stupid moves? Sure. So did almost every other GM that has never played an NBA game in his life. What's your point.. because what you stated clearly isn't going to stand as one.

I already said that my original statement was wrong. I shouldn't have said all great players are bad, there are exceptions. And no Kerr was not a good GM, the Shaq trade was bad, his draft picks like Robin Lopez, Earl Clark, Alando Tucker all did not do much for Phoenix either. Not to mention hiring Terry Porter etc. And what does Dumars was an excellent GM til he was given free reigns mean? He had a babysitter when he was an excellent GM?? And Kupchak wasn't a great player, I don't know why he's even being mentioned here. And no LeBron is not a good GM, actual Cavs fans will even agree he is not.