Celtics Will Only Trade Top Pick For 'Second Coming'

[mawbsta]

In the NBA, you don't win without a Top 30 ever player, and 95% of champions drafted that player.

First part, correct - second part - incorrect for many reasons - firstly, the number 95% is closer to 50% and second, no team wins with ONLY a top 30 player, and recent history shows it typically takes at least 3 top players to win an nba championship.

2016 CLE - Lebron and Kyrie drafted, Love acquired via trade
2015 GSW - Curry, Thompson, Green drafted (finals MVP Iguodala traded)
2014 SAS - Kawhi acquired via trade, duncan, parker, ginobili drafted
2013 MIA - Wade drafted, Bosh, Lebron, Allen acquired via Free Agency and Sign-And-trade
2012 MIA - Wade drafted, Bosh, lebron acquired via Free Agency and Sign-and-trade
2011 DAL - Dirk acquired via trade, entire starting lineup via Free Agency or sign-and-trade
2010 LAL - Kobe acquired via trade, Bynum drafted, Gasol, Odom acquired via trade
2009 LAL - Kobe acquired via trade, Bynum drafted, Gasol, Odom acquired via trade
2008 BOS - Pierce drafted, KG, Rondo and Allen acquired via trade/signed
2007 SAS - Duncan, parker, ginobili drafted
2006 MIA - Wade drafted, Shaq, Alonzo Mourning, Antoine Walker, Gaary Payton acquired Free agency

In the last 11 years the top player on those championship teams was drafted by the winning team just 6/11 (.54%) and only two teams, the 2015 Warriors and 2007 Spurs actually built a championship winner "from the draft," and none of those teams won on the back of one player.

[draftnightsuit]

In the NBA, you don't win without a Top 30 ever player, and 95% of champions drafted that player.

First part, correct - second part - incorrect for many reasons - firstly, the number 95% is closer to 50% and second, no team wins with ONLY a top 30 player, and recent history shows it typically takes at least 3 top players to win an nba championship.

2016 CLE - Lebron and Kyrie drafted, Love acquired via trade
2015 GSW - Curry, Thompson, Green drafted (finals MVP Iguodala traded)
2014 SAS - Kawhi acquired via trade, duncan, parker, ginobili drafted
2013 MIA - Wade drafted, Bosh, Lebron, Allen acquired via Free Agency and Sign-And-trade
2012 MIA - Wade drafted, Bosh, lebron acquired via Free Agency and Sign-and-trade
2011 DAL - Dirk acquired via trade, entire starting lineup via Free Agency or sign-and-trade
2010 LAL - Kobe acquired via trade, Bynum drafted, Gasol, Odom acquired via trade
2009 LAL - Kobe acquired via trade, Bynum drafted, Gasol, Odom acquired via trade
2008 BOS - Pierce drafted, KG, Rondo and Allen acquired via trade/signed
2007 SAS - Duncan, parker, ginobili drafted
2006 MIA - Wade drafted, Shaq, Alonzo Mourning, Antoine Walker, Gaary Payton acquired Free agency

In the last 11 years the top player on those championship teams was drafted by the winning team just 6/11 (.54%) and only two teams, the 2015 Warriors and 2007 Spurs actually built a championship winner "from the draft," and none of those teams won on the back of one player.

Dirk, Kobe, and Kawhi were acquired via draft day trade. So they technically were drafted for all intents and purposes.

Make it a clean 11/11

[pootbrah]

In the NBA, you don't win without a Top 30 ever player, and 95% of champions drafted that player.

First part, correct - second part - incorrect for many reasons - firstly, the number 95% is closer to 50% and second, no team wins with ONLY a top 30 player, and recent history shows it typically takes at least 3 top players to win an nba championship.

2016 CLE - Lebron and Kyrie drafted, Love acquired via trade
2015 GSW - Curry, Thompson, Green drafted (finals MVP Iguodala traded)
2014 SAS - Kawhi acquired via trade, duncan, parker, ginobili drafted
2013 MIA - Wade drafted, Bosh, Lebron, Allen acquired via Free Agency and Sign-And-trade
2012 MIA - Wade drafted, Bosh, lebron acquired via Free Agency and Sign-and-trade
2011 DAL - Dirk acquired via trade, entire starting lineup via Free Agency or sign-and-trade
2010 LAL - Kobe acquired via trade, Bynum drafted, Gasol, Odom acquired via trade
2009 LAL - Kobe acquired via trade, Bynum drafted, Gasol, Odom acquired via trade
2008 BOS - Pierce drafted, KG, Rondo and Allen acquired via trade/signed
2007 SAS - Duncan, parker, ginobili drafted
2006 MIA - Wade drafted, Shaq, Alonzo Mourning, Antoine Walker, Gaary Payton acquired Free agency

In the last 11 years the top player on those championship teams was drafted by the winning team just 6/11 (.54%) and only two teams, the 2015 Warriors and 2007 Spurs actually built a championship winner "from the draft," and none of those teams won on the back of one player.

A lot of those trades were draft day trades

[KnicksALLday]

why would the celtics even consider trading the pick when they can just sign gordon hayward as a free agent? the celtics are better than the jazz and his old coach is there...

[Diggr14]

Smart thing for Boston to do.


Draft Fultz or Ball

Sign Hayward

Trade Thomas/Crowder for Paul George (if he'll sign an extension). If not George, Jimmy Butler + Mitotic


If they stand pat with Thomas. I would trade down to 3 or 4 and draft Josh Jackson or Jayson Tatum. Fultz/Ball do not fit with Thomas at all (if you want to be a champion)

[Diggr14]

why would the celtics even consider trading the pick when they can just sign gordon hayward as a free agent? the celtics are better than the jazz and his old coach is there...

You can do that. But Boston isn't good enough to beat Cleveland in 7 with Thomas on court (even with Hayward). He's a huge defensive liability, it's too bad because if he was 6 inches taller he'd be more formidable defensively and could disrupt other PGs a bit more than he can now. If he has to switch off onto a SF on the perimeter it's just a nightmare.

[Diggr14]

why would the celtics even consider trading the pick when they can just sign gordon hayward as a free agent? the celtics are better than the jazz and his old coach is there...

I agree, that is part of their plan I think.


That being said, I hope that Hayward stays in Utah. I hate seeing stars that mean so much to cities just leave fan bases high and dry. I know it's business.. but there should be a franchise type system in the NBA that allows teams to hold and compensate their franchise guy more than the current system allows.

[hype_2004]

There's no Lebron in this draft, why wait 4,5,6 years for a guy to develop? Get an established star like what Cleveland did by trading Wiggins and compete for the next 4-5-6 years, by that time Lebron would be in a decline and might even happen next year. Tade that pick for Paul George who is only 26 years old and has prime years left on his career, do it now, there's no guarantee these guys even pan out in the long run.

[hype_2004]

Smart thing for Boston to do.


Draft Fultz or Ball

Sign Hayward

Trade Thomas/Crowder for Paul George (if he'll sign an extension). If not George, Jimmy Butler + Mitotic


If they stand pat with Thomas. I would trade down to 3 or 4 and draft Josh Jackson or Jayson Tatum. Fultz/Ball do not fit with Thomas at all (if you want to be a champion)

This^^^^^ they become prime contenders next year, PG is only 26 and has prime years left even when Lebron starts to eventually decline. Boston would be stupid to hold on to that pick for a guy that might not even pan out, they are in a win now mode, no time to wait for a kid to develop 4, 5 or 6 years from now.

[robbie84]

Makes me laugh when people say Fultz can't play with IT.
Dude is 6'5" with 6'10" wingspan, can pass and shoot from anywhere especially on pull ups and off screens.

[KnicksALLday]

There's no Lebron in this draft, why wait 4,5,6 years for a guy to develop? Get an established star like what Cleveland did by trading Wiggins and compete for the next 4-5-6 years, by that time Lebron would be in a decline and might even happen next year. Tade that pick for Paul George who is only 26 years old and has prime years left on his career, do it now, there's no guarantee these guys even pan out in the long run.

i agree with you but the difference with the cavs is kyrie was already there and lebron joined... they were already good and didnt need an up and coming player like wiggins so they traded him for an established star in love which gave them a big 3... with the celtics they just have isiah and everyone else so they still need to build their team...it would make more sense to draft fultz and trade smart or bradley since they dont need all those guards plus jalen brown is already there not playing enough... they are a good team with a promising player in fultz and can pick up george or hayward during free agency... butler is good too but i wouldnt trade fultz for him... maybe next years pick would be better to trade... if isiah had a legit second star next to him i would say yes trade fultz but they dont have the same luxury as the cavs when they got love...

[We Are Groot]

Its not swap rights next year with Brooklyn, they get the pick outright.

no he was right the first time. they have their pick outright this year, right to swap next year and their pick outright again the year after that. the CBA prohibits teams from trading picks in consecutive years, so having a team's picks outright in consecutive years is impossible. feel free to fact check

[Fresh360Waves]

Makes me laugh when people say Fultz can't play with IT.
Dude is 6'5" with 6'10" wingspan, can pass and shoot from anywhere especially on pull ups and off screens.

I guess people are more so concerned with how the defense will work w/ that backcourt. IT is already not that great of a defender. Rightfully so because of his size of course. Fultz will inevitably run into a learning curve anyways just being a rookie alone. So Celtics have tons of decisions to make up until the draft and for the next year or two following as well.

[Fresh360Waves]

I think they should take Josh Jackson but that's just me

Well they did take Jaylen Brown at #3 last yr so I wouldn't count that out as an option.

[We Are Groot]

i think the Celts have to be very cognizant of the state of Cleveland/LeBron when deciding how to proceed with their rebuild as they are the biggest factor affecting team success. Throwing the K-Love move out as reasoning for a win-now move is spurious simply bc LeBron (and Kyrie) were already on the team when Love was added. The Cs have no such building block(s) on their roster. it is pretty nuts, however, to think that they may've become the 2nd best team in the east leap-frogging more established teams like WAS & TOR. Kudos for that accomplishment.

since they still have nice picks from Brooklyn coming for the next two years, very team/cap friendly contracts and also taking into account the state of the eastern conference ... their best move is to stay the course. Grousbeck is absolutely justified in his "2nd coming" comments bc that's what it would take to have a chance to dethrone Cleveland. It would take more than just PG13, Jimmy Butler, Blake Griffin or Gordon Hayward added to their core (some of which would be outbound in the case of Butler or George) to just be competitive with Cleveland. they're two big additions from even sniffing that competitive series with the Cavs.

so why go all in and lose all those assets and that flexibility just for a puncher's chance? as they sit, their future is blindingly bright and that's much more of a sure thing. take time to focus the roster and decide what direction they want to take the team; decide where IT fits into the big picture. all the while they'll still be a top seed in the east. think a Spurs-like build as opposed to what the Heat did. it's not as if the team goes to crap if they don't do something right now.

[jason bourne]

There's no Lebron in this draft, why wait 4,5,6 years for a guy to develop? Get an established star like what Cleveland did by trading Wiggins and compete for the next 4-5-6 years, by that time Lebron would be in a decline and might even happen next year. Tade that pick for Paul George who is only 26 years old and has prime years left on his career, do it now, there's no guarantee these guys even pan out in the long run.

The Celtics don't have a LeBron telling them that he'll leave in two years. I'm not saying this is good or bad, but just pointing out the differences of the teams. If there is a criticism of the Celtics that I do have is who are they built around? Their best player is IT. The second best players are arguable. I think it's Avery Bradley, so getting Fultz will cause some problems. Somebody has to go to the bench. What about Marcus Smart? Third would be Jae Crowder, but am willing to give it Al Horford if he wasn't the new guy.

[ozthegap]

We had to learn something from Billy King, right?
Don't mortgage your future for a win-now type of philosophy.

I'd rather draft Markelle, have a shot at Michael Porter Jr next year, and have this team be good long term... instead of trading the top pick for Butler/George. The bigger question I think is whether the team should pay Isaiah. Lot of competing opinions.

So do Michael porter Jr and Otto porter jr have gay dad's or something? How does that work?

[bj2323]

Its not swap rights next year with Brooklyn, they get the pick outright.

no he was right the first time. they have their pick outright this year, right to swap next year and their pick outright again the year after that. the CBA prohibits teams from trading picks in consecutive years, so having a team's picks outright in consecutive years is impossible. feel free to fact check

you are wrong af

[titlebound1]

Its not swap rights next year with Brooklyn, they get the pick outright.

no he was right the first time. they have their pick outright this year, right to swap next year and their pick outright again the year after that. the CBA prohibits teams from trading picks in consecutive years, so having a team's picks outright in consecutive years is impossible. feel free to fact check

This is wrong.

Here is your fact check -

http://www.nba.com/nets/news/nets-acquire-nba-champions-kevin-garnett-paul-pierce-and-jason-terry

They got the nets 2014 (James Young), 2016 pick (Jaylen Brown), the right to swap picks in 2017, and the nets pick out right again in 2018.

They never had the nets pick without the right to swap in back to back years.

[Pukovnik]

There is absolutely no reason to trade the number 1 pick. The Celtics are already good, they will have the option to offer someone max contract this summer, presumably Gordon Hayward. They will bring in 20 year old Ante Zizic from Europe who has been voted second best young player in Europe this season. And they have the number 1 pick. They are set for possibly next ten years of success. Don't trade the pick.