David Griffin: Kyrie Irving's Trade Request Showed Courage

Post #1 » by **RealGM Wiretap** » Mon Aug 7, 2017 11:20 pm

David Griffin said the decision made by Kyrie Irving to ask for a trade from the Cleveland Cavaliers showed courage.

"He handled the situation exactly like he was supposed to," Griffin said Monday on ESPN's The Jump. "He went to [Cavs owner] Dan Gilbert privately, told him that he thought he would be happier somewhere else.

"The absolute worst thing this guy could have done was pretend to be all-in and sink the ship from within. Most guys don't have the courage to do what he did."

Griffin believes Irving will eventually be traded by the Cavaliers.

"This is a guy whose list included really good coaching situations -- Brad Stevens and [Gregg] Popovich. This is a guy who recruited LeBron [James], [Gordon] Hayward and a host of other free agents, and all of a sudden LeBron came back, so he was sold a totally different situation than he's actually in, and he worked very well in, he won a championship in.

"I see this as him looking for a fit for himself, to take the next step in his career. I think this is a guy who wants to know how good he can be. LeBron casts a very large shadow over an organization. And most of it is really, really positive. You know you are expected to win a championship by way of example. But what that doesn't always allow is for a player like Kyrie to test his boundaries and see how good he can really be, and can I really be the frontman of a team like that."

Griffin admitted Irving's inability to coexist with James is something one can criticize.

"I don't think he's figured out how to carry the mantle of a team and win games in that environment," he said. "None of the players on that team had learned how to do it before LeBron got there. That didn't grow organically. They didn't learn how to win together.

"Not that [Irving] couldn't have carried the load, but he probably didn't have enough expectation of himself to do it, because everybody just assumed, 'Well if we lose this one, it's OK.' And that's really my fault. We had to do a better job of calibrating everybody toward when LeBron is out of a game, that's opportunity to you."

Via ESPN

haste10176 · Post #2 » by **haste10176** » Mon Aug 7, 2017 11:42 pm

No it doesn't it shows whinging.. It was like when Kyrie signed he did not know LBJ was coming back it was not what he was promised.. So what happened in Kyrie went from a 30 win team to playing finals each and every year winning a championship and signing a massive shoe deal.. There were rumours LBJ may come back when Kyrie signed so he knew it was possible.. In addition to that he would be the first player ever not to sign the rookie extension so whether he knew LBJ was coming back or not he would of signed it.. So this is all whinging what player goes no I do not want to win do not bring in a player that can make me a winner.. Kyrie is throwing a tantrum because LBJ may be gone next season and he knows if its just him and love he will be terrible.. Kyrie plays no defense and barely passes the ball the combination with LBJ lifts his game.. He also takes the 5th most shots in the NBA.. So if he wants to know how good he can be he still has a heap of thing he can improve on while playing for the cavs like passing and defending players.. If he just wants to take the most shots in the NBA well thats pretty dumb and Ron Harper is right...

ChokeFasncists · Post #3 » by **ChokeFasncists** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 2:09 am

He wants to feel less pressure to win, he just wants to play and get paid

Elnegron · Post #4 » by **Elnegron** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 7:36 am

Cavs fans after irving requested a trade want to let you know how overrated irving is without lebron but then Want the moon for him :lol:

. They need to understand 3 things. Irving was a rookie on a garbage team and as a rookie impossible to lead that team. When lebron got there, the pieces were brought in to fit lebron not him which is the result of him not being as good when lebron off the floor and last but very important. Cavs is a trash organization with not a good coach. You give irving a pop, spo el straight and the 1 from Boston and they all get more out of Irving than what lue and the previous coaches have been able to. LeBron was a very talented raw player before he went to miami. He learn to post up, defend better and have a better jumper in the 4 years in miami. Irving needs a system that can teach him how to succeed not throw him in the fire and let lebron mold hum to his liking. The talent is there

Donnyxc · Post #5 » by **Donnyxc** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 1:42 pm

ChokeFasncists wrote:He wants to feel less pressure to win, he just wants to play and get paid

Yeah. I don't blame him for wanting to be "the guy" like Russell Westbrook. He doesn't need to win now that he's a champion. Most players base their career validation around winning championships. Now he just wants to expand his game and push his limits, which he can't do under LeBron's shadow.

People can criticize him for leaving a good/winning team and situation, but it's not going to change Kyrie's mentality. He's just not a "ride the coattails" type guy.

nedleeds · Post #6 » by **nedleeds** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 2:21 pm

LOL courage. Millenials have a warped idea of what constitutes courage.

MegaK · Post #7 » by **MegaK** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 2:55 pm

Next to Curry, Irving is the most unguardable guy in the league. I don't blame him for wanting to try to be the guy on a team rather than a sidekick.

dice · Post #8 » by **dice** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 2:59 pm

nedleeds wrote:LOL courage. Millenials have a warped idea of what constitutes courage.

1) people who generalize like that are lazy (even lazier than millennials :lol:

)
2) david griffin is not a millennial

dice · Post #9 » by **dice** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 3:10 pm

MegaK wrote:Next to Curry, Irving is the most unguardable guy in the league. I don't blame him for wanting to try to be the guy on a team rather than a sidekick.

he already did try. for four seasons. and failed. for four seasons. because he's as unable to guard as he is unguardable. and nba basketball is a team sport, whereas kyrie is not a team player (as further evidenced by this trade request)

and does he really want to be "the guy" if he's requesting trades to teams like the spurs and timberwolves? because he would most certainly NOT be "the guy" on those teams

so either he's extraordinarily deluded about his ability to lead a good team or he's got some sort of personal issue with LeBron. almost certainly some combination of the two

kyrie irving has become an excellent scorer, but he is still not truly elite in that area. not consistently, anyway. unless we're talking about pure 1-on-1 street ball, where he is indeed on a steph curry level. but he absolutely sucks at every other aspect of the game of basketball. which is why he will never lead a team to any notable success

dice · Post #10 » by **dice** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 3:13 pm

ChokeFasncists wrote:He wants to feel less pressure to win, he just wants to play and get paid

I dunno about that. the pressure is squarely on LeBron in cleveland

dice · Post #11 » by **dice** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 3:25 pm

Elnegron wrote:Cavs fans after irving requested a trade want to let you know how overrated irving is without lebron but then Want the moon for him . They need to understand 3 things. Irving was a rookie on a garbage team and as a rookie impossible to lead that team. When lebron got there, the pieces were brought in to fit lebron not him which is the result of him not being as good when lebron off the floor and last but very important. Cavs is a trash organization with not a good coach. You give irving a pop, spo el straight and the 1 from Boston and they all get more out of Irving than what lue and the previous coaches have been able to. LeBron was a very talented raw player before he went to miami. He learn to post up, defend better and have a better jumper in the 4 years in miami. Irving needs a system that can teach him how to succeed not throw him in the fire and let lebron mold hum to his liking. The talent is there

LeBron was far more than a raw talent when he arrived in Miami. he was 2 time defending MVP and 1st team all-defense. by the time he left Miami he was sliding OFF the all-defensive teams. and while his shot improved in Miami, I think his numbers were largely better due to his situation. note that upon his return to Cleveland his 3 pt percentage has fallen back almost to where it was pre-miami

Donnyxc · Post #12 » by **Donnyxc** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 4:24 pm

nedleeds wrote:LOL courage. Millenials have a warped idea of what constitutes courage.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/courage
1. the quality of mind or spirit that enables a person to face difficulty, danger, pain, etc., without fear; bravery.

Let me break this down for you in two ways.
First:

"He handled the situation exactly like he was supposed to," Griffin said Monday on ESPN's The Jump. "He went to [Cavs owner] Dan Gilbert privately, told him that he thought he would be happier somewhere else. "The absolute worst thing this guy could have done was pretend to be all-in and sink the ship from within. Most guys don't have the courage to do what he did."

The difficulty comes from leaving an "expected" and "safe" winning situation. The expectation is if you are winning, people expect you to stay in that situation that enables winning in the most simple form. He is obviously unhappy with his role and had to weigh his unhappiness with the fact that he is winning. The obvious implication is that if this became public (as it has), it comes with risks. He has everything to lose (including winning), and nothing to gain unless things go right.

Griffin's quote suggests that most people would succumb to the "winning" part, and try to ignore personal desire to be great from building something himself (not having it built from you a la LeBron).

The quality of mind/spirit comes from how he handled this situation. He showed character by handling this maturely and going to the Owner privately. Not (from what we know) vocalizing his displeasure via TWITTER, social media, or in the locker room.
I would also argue the quality of mind/spirit is shown by the fact that he is being true to himself. He is not passive-aggressively ignoring this hard decision... He is deciding to face it head on. He made the decision to pursue another opportunity that is less "safe" in terms of winning, but he is doing this because this is what he most wants. To optimize his time in the NBA and his ability. To get the most out of himself. So in the end he's being true to himself. He's not being a "ride the coattail" type guy, which takes courage.

Second:
I listened to a great episode from the pod "How I built this" the other day. It was with Jenn Hyman who created "Rent the Runway".
That episode resonates with me regarding the Kyrie Irving situation.. particularly one scenario:

Jenn is on her way to a meeting with an Investor/VC, when all of a sudden she gets a call from the Investor's Admin.
The admin says "We apologize, but the meeting is cancelled today".
Jenn responds, "Oh we're right around the corner, we'll just see you there".
Admin responds "Sorry, but the Investor does not want to meet with you"
Jenn responds "It's Alright, we're right there"
Admin responds "They don't want to see you, they do not believe in your idea"
Jenn responds "Sorry, you're cutting out"... and shows up anyways... and gets the meeting. Ends up making the connection, and continuing on her path to eventually becoming a successful CEO.

Moral of the story is very similar to Kyrie's situation. Most people would crumble, would be devastated by hearing that type of response from a VC/Investor who is basically **** on your dreams. Instead of crumbling in the face of adversity, a very small percentage are the Jenn Hyman types. Who basically say "I have nothing to lose" (When in fact the situation is the opposite), and make the courageous move instead.

It's a "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take" type of mindset that Kyie has. I understand if that seems like a "millennial" thing to you, but I challenge you to ask yourself what you would have done in Kyrie's shoes. If you would stay in Cleveland, I think that says a lot about you as well.

hyberx · Post #13 » by **hyberx** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 4:50 pm

dice wrote:
MegaK wrote:Next to Curry, Irving is the most unguardable guy in the league. I don't blame him for wanting to try to be the guy on a team rather than a sidekick.

he already did try. for four seasons. and failed. for four seasons. because he's as unable to guard as he is unguardable. and nba basketball is a team sport, whereas kyrie is not a team player (as further evidenced by this trade request)

Well not a Irving fan by any means but dude is one hella 1v1 player who can score at will.

To be fair, he was a rookie and those few seasons he had nobody but himself. Can you name another star in those teams? Defense is all about coaching and effort. I remember Irving actually played good D on Curry in 2015 before he went down. He is capable. Meaning it is up to the coach to get it out of him. Curry wasn't even a decent defensive player until Mark Jackson changed all that. Who did Irving has. Oh yeah, the great Byron Scott. The Cavs actually regressed big time on D after they got rid of David Blatt. Lue is nothing more than a yes man to LeBron and of course he also made a great tshirt hanger for Shumpert.

Is Irving as good as LeBron? No. Yet, it is still a fact that Irving did not have a good team that is built for him.

A trade request from a sinking team is no different than signing somewhere else given the chance. Aka LeBron, twice.

hyberx · Post #14 » by **hyberx** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 5:08 pm

It's also funny how some are saying Irving is leaving a championship team. He is smart enough to know damn well that Cavs is not beating the Ws with or without him. Heck, Cavs is not even beating the 2nd to 4th West team. Being the top dog in the minor league doesn't mean much. Cavs was built for LeBron, the guy who is gearing toward a 3rd ship jump just because he can.

Irving is just smart to beat LeBron out of the door.

dice · Post #15 » by **dice** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 5:33 pm

hyberx wrote:
dice wrote:
MegaK wrote:Next to Curry, Irving is the most unguardable guy in the league. I don't blame him for wanting to try to be the guy on a team rather than a sidekick.

he already did try. for four seasons. and failed. for four seasons. because he's as unable to guard as he is unguardable. and nba basketball is a team sport, whereas kyrie is not a team player (as further evidenced by this trade request)

Well not a Irving fan by any means but dude is one hella 1v1 player

that he is. but he doesn't do much else

To be fair, he was a rookie and those few seasons he had nobody but himself. Can you name another star in those teams?

there wasn't another star on those teams, of course. but if he's looking to be "the man" on some other team, it's gonna have to be a team without stars

Defense is all about coaching and effort. I remember Irving actually played good D on Curry in 2015 before he went down. He is capable. Meaning it is up to the coach to get it out of him.

he played good D on curry for 1 game? out of the 13 the teams have played in the finals? that's a problem

tom thibodeau is one of the best defensive coaches around. he couldn't get wiggins or lavine to play a lick of D. are you seriously gonna blame thibs for their continued lack of ability/effort?

a coach can only motivate if the player is willing. kyrie irving has thus far shown no willingness on that end of the floor

The Cavs actually regressed big time on D after they got rid of David Blatt

and yet kyrie was still an awful defender under blatt

A trade request from a sinking team is no different than signing somewhere else given the chance. Aka LeBron, twice.

the cavs are a sinking team? I thought kyrie's excuse was that he wanted to shine more elsewhere? are you saying he thinks he can win more elsewhere? 'cause those are two completely different propositions

dice · Post #16 » by **dice** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 5:43 pm

hyberx wrote:It's also funny how some are saying Irving is leaving a championship team.

i'm not sure who is saying that, but i'm guessing that whoever is is referring to a cavs team that has won a championship

He is smart enough to know damn well that Cavs is not beating the Ws with or without him. Heck, Cavs is not even beating the 2nd to 4th West team.

so...he's gonna move to the warriors? 'cause none of the other teams are beating them either. with or without him

Irving is just smart to beat LeBron out of the door.

why is it a race? he could just as easily leave when/if LeBron decides to go

Hoopzilla · Post #17 » by **Hoopzilla** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 7:23 pm

dice wrote:
MegaK wrote:Next to Curry, Irving is the most unguardable guy in the league. I don't blame him for wanting to try to be the guy on a team rather than a sidekick.

he already did try. for four seasons. and failed. for four seasons.

The Cavs were 19-63 when they drafted Kyrie. They had absolutely no talent as Lebron had just left them high and dry and they cleaned out their cupboard and were starting over. Kyrie was their starting over point. They then won 21, 24 and 33 games over the next three seasons, as they were rebuilding from the shithole Lebron left them in. It was obvious that the addition of Wiggins would probably have them looking for the 8th spot in the East, so Kyrie was leading a young team with little talent back from the grave. You can't ask for more than that of a young player with no talent around him, unless you are unreasonable.

You can call Kyrie a loser, but Cleveland would have never drafted him if Lebron didn't just walk away on them. Just when they get back to the point of being able to be competitive, Lebron comes back and takes over again. You also need to keep in mind that Lebron saw Kyrie and wanted to play with him as well. He knew he could use Kyrie to give him a title, which he did. Kyrie was just as responsible for the title in Cleveland as Lebron was.

ChokeFasncists · Post #18 » by **ChokeFasncists** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 11:38 pm

Donnyxc wrote:
ChokeFasncists wrote:He wants to feel less pressure to win, he just wants to play and get paid

Yeah. I don't blame him for wanting to be "the guy" like Russell Westbrook. He doesn't need to win now that he's a champion. Most players base their career validation around winning championships. Now he just wants to expand his game and push his limits, which he can't do under LeBron's shadow.

People can criticize him for leaving a good/winning team and situation, but it's not going to change Kyrie's mentality. He's just not a "ride the coattails" type guy.

Well, he has been riding the coattails for a while. Probably don't have to in a year

ChokeFasncists · Post #19 » by **ChokeFasncists** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 11:46 pm

dice wrote:
ChokeFasncists wrote:He wants to feel less pressure to win, he just wants to play and get paid

I dunno about that. the pressure is squarely on LeBron in cleveland

Trickle down? He is in turn giving him pressure.

He's probably leaving in a year anyways.

Donnyxc · Post #20 » by **Donnyxc** » Wed Aug 9, 2017 2:04 pm

ChokeFasncists wrote:
Donnyxc wrote:
ChokeFasncists wrote:He wants to feel less pressure to win, he just wants to play and get paid

Yeah. I don't blame him for wanting to be "the guy" like Russell Westbrook. He doesn't need to win now that he's a champion. Most players base their career validation around winning championships. Now he just wants to expand his game and push his limits, which he can't do under LeBron's shadow.

People can criticize him for leaving a good/winning team and situation, but it's not going to change Kyrie's mentality. He's just not a "ride the coattails" type guy.

Well, he has been riding the coattails for a while. Probably don't have to in a year

He has, but not by choice. He signed his deal prior to finding out that Lebron was returning.