Re: Celtics Made Trade Offer To Spurs For Kawhi Leonard At Deadline

[Pickled Prunes]

celtics will be in the finals next year

Quite possibly, maybe unless LBJ goes to Philly. (or PG or someone like that)

OP: Maybe it's Kyrie? He was out for season, wouldn't commit and might have lingering health issues.

If Lebron goes to Philly they don't make the Finals. They need to let the process play out, not render Simmons useless by taking the ball out of his hands... and not remove Embiid from the paint to clear driving lanes for Lebron. Lebron is fools gold for most teams at this point.

[chipchipperson]

celtics will be in the finals next year

Quite possibly, maybe unless LBJ goes to Philly. (or PG or someone like that)

OP: Maybe it's Kyrie? He was out for season, wouldn't commit and might have lingering health issues.

If Lebron goes to Philly they don't make the Finals. They need to let the process play out, not render Simmons useless by taking the ball out of his hands... and not remove Embiid from the paint to clear driving lanes for Lebron. Lebron is fools gold for most teams at this point.

Jesus, some of you sixers fans are hilarious.

[Raps in 4]

Ainge is a **** legend.

I wish Masai would be this proactive instead of sitting on his ass every trade deadline and offseason.

[mawbsta]

Ainge is a **** legend.

I wish Masai would be this proactive instead of sitting on his ass every trade deadline and offseason.

Really? And how would Boston look having given up Tatum AND Brown which was probably the asking price, and why it didn't go down. That trade looked good on paper, but these kids were 90 seconds away from the NBA finals and they "add" Kyrie and Hayward next season. Trading 2-3 pieces for a one year rental of Kawhi is a stupid move.

We also have no way of knowing if Masai didn't also make an offer, Powell, Siakam, OG... Turned down by the Spurs..

As for "sitting on his ass" nobody wants the Raptors over-priced stars, but hello Ibaka / Tucker

[dice]

Quite possibly, maybe unless LBJ goes to Philly. (or PG or someone like that)

OP: Maybe it's Kyrie? He was out for season, wouldn't commit and might have lingering health issues.

If Lebron goes to Philly they don't make the Finals. They need to let the process play out, not render Simmons useless by taking the ball out of his hands... and not remove Embiid from the paint to clear driving lanes for Lebron. Lebron is fools gold for most teams at this point.

Jesus, some of you sixers fans are hilarious.

i'm quite certain that "the process" would have included making a play for lebron this offseason

as for simmons...he can still have similar usage in the same role with lebron there. just as kyrie's usage was not markedly impacted when lebron returned to cleveland. same with harden/cp3. two high usage guys with overlapping skillsets can coexist just fine. the role players just have their roles reduced. heck, simmons might actually develop a jumpshot during lebron's stay. imagine that

[dice]

celtics will be in the finals next year

Quite possibly, maybe unless LBJ goes to Philly. (or PG or someone like that)

OP: Maybe it's Kyrie? He was out for season, wouldn't commit and might have lingering health issues.

sixers and rockets currently tied for 2nd in vegas odds to win the championship. celtics and lakers right behind at 4 and 5, respectively

obviously the sixers' odds are buoyed by the significant possibility that lebron goes there. Celtics almost certainly become the east favorites if lebron goes anywhere other than philly (including staying in cleveland)

[Pickled Prunes]

If Lebron goes to Philly they don't make the Finals. They need to let the process play out, not render Simmons useless by taking the ball out of his hands... and not remove Embiid from the paint to clear driving lanes for Lebron. Lebron is fools gold for most teams at this point.

Jesus, some of you sixers fans are hilarious.

i'm quite certain that "the process" would have included making a play for lebron this offseason

as for simmons...he can still have similar usage in the same role with lebron there. just as kyrie's usage was not markedly impacted when lebron returned to cleveland. same with harden/cp3. two high usage guys with overlapping skillsets can coexist just fine. the role players just have their roles reduced. heck, simmons might actually develop a jumpshot during lebron's stay. imagine that

Yep, as you elude to, all the guys you mention are elite offensive players that could already shoot and were comfortable playing off-ball. Do you think Lebron wants to sign up, hoping that Simmons isn't a waste of space off-ball?

And to be clear... I am not a Sixers fan. I'm just pointing out that it would be a bad move strategically. They didn't suck on purpose for five years just to pick up an aging super-star that will certainly leave them in a heap of misery. If they win a ring it will be worth it... but they won't. And then Lebron leaves or retires and then what? Lose on purpose for a few more years? They need to look long term and Lebron's 1+1 deals are the opposite of long term.

[dice]

Jesus, some of you sixers fans are hilarious.

i'm quite certain that "the process" would have included making a play for lebron this offseason

as for simmons...he can still have similar usage in the same role with lebron there. just as kyrie's usage was not markedly impacted when lebron returned to cleveland. same with harden/cp3. two high usage guys with overlapping skillsets can coexist just fine. the role players just have their roles reduced. heck, simmons might actually develop a jumpshot during lebron's stay. imagine that

Yep, as you elude to, all the guys you mention are elite offensive players that could already shoot and were comfortable playing off-ball. Do you think Lebron wants to sign up, hoping that Simmons isn't a waste of space off-ball?

And to be clear... I am not a Sixers fan. I'm just pointing out that it would be a bad move strategically. They didn't suck on purpose for five years just to pick up an aging super-star that will certainly leave them in a heap of misery. If they win a ring it will be worth it... but they won't. And then Lebron leaves or retires and then what? Lose on purpose for a few more years? They need to look long term and Lebron's 1+1 deals are the opposite of long term.

first of all, a player does not need to be a shooter to be valuable off-ball. although it would certainly help playing with lebron

secondly, having lebron there for a couple of years before leaving would change very little. the core of simmons and embiid would still be there, still young and improving. what would potentially be problematic is if lebron stays more than 2 seasons and does not agree to a sign and trade on the way out the door. then with simmons and maybe saric under new contracts they would be over the cap and unable to use lebron's salary slot

[gordoncatrell]

i'm quite certain that "the process" would have included making a play for lebron this offseason

as for simmons...he can still have similar usage in the same role with lebron there. just as kyrie's usage was not markedly impacted when lebron returned to cleveland. same with harden/cp3. two high usage guys with overlapping skillsets can coexist just fine. the role players just have their roles reduced. heck, simmons might actually develop a jumpshot during lebron's stay. imagine that

Yep, as you elude to, all the guys you mention are elite offensive players that could already shoot and were comfortable playing off-ball. Do you think Lebron wants to sign up, hoping that Simmons isn't a waste of space off-ball?

And to be clear... I am not a Sixers fan. I'm just pointing out that it would be a bad move strategically. They didn't suck on purpose for five years just to pick up an aging super-star that will certainly leave them in a heap of misery. If they win a ring it will be worth it... but they won't. And then Lebron leaves or retires and then what? Lose on purpose for a few more years? They need to look long term and Lebron's 1+1 deals are the opposite of long term.

first of all, a player does not need to be a shooter to be valuable off-ball. although it would certainly help playing with lebron

secondly, having lebron there for a couple of years before leaving would change very little. the core of simmons and embiid would still be there, still young and improving. what would potentially be problematic is if lebron stays more than 2 seasons and does not agree to a sign and trade on the way out the door. then with simmons and maybe saric under new contracts they would be over the cap and unable to use lebron's salary slot

Moving forward: PHI priority should be to give SIMMONS the ball. He needs to develop into a top 5 player NOW.
Simmons deferred to Embiid too much.
Nothing else should get in the way of Simmons' trajectory. Simmons is Earvin Johnson. He needs to go full throttle MAGIC johnson.
BronInc will derail this for a 1+1 lift.

IMO: simmons or bust.

[Pickled Prunes]

i'm quite certain that "the process" would have included making a play for lebron this offseason

as for simmons...he can still have similar usage in the same role with lebron there. just as kyrie's usage was not markedly impacted when lebron returned to cleveland. same with harden/cp3. two high usage guys with overlapping skillsets can coexist just fine. the role players just have their roles reduced. heck, simmons might actually develop a jumpshot during lebron's stay. imagine that

Yep, as you elude to, all the guys you mention are elite offensive players that could already shoot and were comfortable playing off-ball. Do you think Lebron wants to sign up, hoping that Simmons isn't a waste of space off-ball?

And to be clear... I am not a Sixers fan. I'm just pointing out that it would be a bad move strategically. They didn't suck on purpose for five years just to pick up an aging super-star that will certainly leave them in a heap of misery. If they win a ring it will be worth it... but they won't. And then Lebron leaves or retires and then what? Lose on purpose for a few more years? They need to look long term and Lebron's 1+1 deals are the opposite of long term.

first of all, a player does not need to be a shooter to be valuable off-ball. although it would certainly help playing with lebron

secondly, having lebron there for a couple of years before leaving would change very little. the core of simmons and embiid would still be there, still young and improving. what would potentially be problematic is if lebron stays more than 2 seasons and does not agree to a sign and trade on the way out the door. then with simmons and maybe saric under new contracts they would be over the cap and unable to use lebron's salary slot

You kind of spelled out the issue. If Lebron went to PHI they would need to be all in right now. Lebron isn't waiting for Fultz to figure it out so he gets cast aside ala Waiters and Wiggins. Redick, Belinelli and Ilyasova are free agents. Lebron is eating all your cap space so which of these guys do you go all in with? Probably only Redick, but will he take a discount? Can you outbid his other offers? If a decision by Redick has implications of your teams future, is it a sign that you've already failed?

My point is that the Sixers will have less when Lebron leaves than when he arrives. Would Lebron's arrival signify that the building is complete or would they be furnishing a house with no windows or doors?

And yes, there are many things non-shooters can do to help a team off-ball. But taking a player away from his greatest strength hurts the team. All you can hope is that he can defend like Roberson, (which he can't,) because that's my best comp for Simmons when he doesn't have the ball in his hands.

[dice]

Yep, as you elude to, all the guys you mention are elite offensive players that could already shoot and were comfortable playing off-ball. Do you think Lebron wants to sign up, hoping that Simmons isn't a waste of space off-ball?

And to be clear... I am not a Sixers fan. I'm just pointing out that it would be a bad move strategically. They didn't suck on purpose for five years just to pick up an aging super-star that will certainly leave them in a heap of misery. If they win a ring it will be worth it... but they won't. And then Lebron leaves or retires and then what? Lose on purpose for a few more years? They need to look long term and Lebron's 1+1 deals are the opposite of long term.

first of all, a player does not need to be a shooter to be valuable off-ball. although it would certainly help playing with lebron

secondly, having lebron there for a couple of years before leaving would change very little. the core of simmons and embiid would still be there, still young and improving. what would potentially be problematic is if lebron stays more than 2 seasons and does not agree to a sign and trade on the way out the door. then with simmons and maybe saric under new contracts they would be over the cap and unable to use lebron's salary slot

You kind of spelled out the issue. If Lebron went to PHI they would need to be all in right now. Lebron isn't waiting for Fultz to figure it out so he gets cast aside ala Waiters and Wiggins. Redick, Belinelli and Ilyasova are free agents. Lebron is eating all your cap space so which of these guys do you go all in with? Probably only Redick, but will he take a discount? Can you outbid his other offers? If a decision by Redick has implications of your teams future, is it a sign that you've already failed?

there's a reason redick only signed a 1 year deal

My point is that the Sixers will have less when Lebron leaves than when he arrives.

not if they are able to use his salary slot

And yes, there are many things non-shooters can do to help a team off-ball. But taking a player away from his greatest strength hurts the team. All you can hope is that he can defend like Roberson, (which he can't,) because that's my best comp for Simmons when he doesn't have the ball in his hands.

he can be a slasher off ball looking for easy buckets. he can hunt for rebounds. and the primary role he has now doesn't have to change much. particularly if brett brown is smart and keeps one of lebron or simmons on the floor at all times

kyrie's usage went from 30.2% to 28.2% the year lebron arrived. the ball was in his hands nearly as much. it was the other players on the team that got less action. when cp3 was added to the rockets this year his usage remained the same and harden's actually went UP

it was embiid that was far and away the usage leader on philly this season. his role will be diminished for sure if lebron comes aboard. if you want simmons to INCREASE his role, then yeah, it's not going to happen with lebron there. but I don't think his role will decrease much

[gordoncatrell]

first of all, a player does not need to be a shooter to be valuable off-ball. although it would certainly help playing with lebron

secondly, having lebron there for a couple of years before leaving would change very little. the core of simmons and embiid would still be there, still young and improving. what would potentially be problematic is if lebron stays more than 2 seasons and does not agree to a sign and trade on the way out the door. then with simmons and maybe saric under new contracts they would be over the cap and unable to use lebron's salary slot

You kind of spelled out the issue. If Lebron went to PHI they would need to be all in right now. Lebron isn't waiting for Fultz to figure it out so he gets cast aside ala Waiters and Wiggins. Redick, Belinelli and Ilyasova are free agents. Lebron is eating all your cap space so which of these guys do you go all in with? Probably only Redick, but will he take a discount? Can you outbid his other offers? If a decision by Redick has implications of your teams future, is it a sign that you've already failed?

there's a reason redick only signed a 1 year deal

My point is that the Sixers will have less when Lebron leaves than when he arrives.

not if they are able to use his salary slot

And yes, there are many things non-shooters can do to help a team off-ball. But taking a player away from his greatest strength hurts the team. All you can hope is that he can defend like Roberson, (which he can't,) because that's my best comp for Simmons when he doesn't have the ball in his hands.

he can be a slasher off ball looking for easy buckets. he can hunt for rebounds. and the primary role he has now doesn't have to change much. particularly if brett brown is smart and keeps one of lebron or simmons on the floor at all times

kyrie's usage went from 30.2% to 28.2% the year lebron arrived. the ball was in his hands nearly as much. it was the other players on the team that got less action. when cp3 was added to the rockets this year his usage remained the same and harden's actually went UP

it was embiid that was far and away the usage leader on philly this season. his role will be diminished for sure if lebron comes aboard. if you want simmons to INCREASE his role, then yeah, it's not going to happen with lebron there. but I don't think his role will decrease much

PHI NATION needs to protect simmons. He should dominate the ball.
Shout down BronInc attempt as using PHI as a boogeyman to shore up his 1st choice destination.

[Pickled Prunes]

You kind of spelled out the issue. If Lebron went to PHI they would need to be all in right now. Lebron isn't waiting for Fultz to figure it out so he gets cast aside ala Waiters and Wiggins. Redick, Belinelli and Ilyasova are free agents. Lebron is eating all your cap space so which of these guys do you go all in with? Probably only Redick, but will he take a discount? Can you outbid his other offers? If a decision by Redick has implications of your teams future, is it a sign that you've already failed?

there's a reason redick only signed a 1 year deal

My point is that the Sixers will have less when Lebron leaves than when he arrives.

not if they are able to use his salary slot

And yes, there are many things non-shooters can do to help a team off-ball. But taking a player away from his greatest strength hurts the team. All you can hope is that he can defend like Roberson, (which he can't,) because that's my best comp for Simmons when he doesn't have the ball in his hands.

he can be a slasher off ball looking for easy buckets. he can hunt for rebounds. and the primary role he has now doesn't have to change much. particularly if brett brown is smart and keeps one of lebron or simmons on the floor at all times

kyrie's usage went from 30.2% to 28.2% the year lebron arrived. the ball was in his hands nearly as much. it was the other players on the team that got less action. when cp3 was added to the rockets this year his usage remained the same and harden's actually went UP

it was embiid that was far and away the usage leader on philly this season. his role will be diminished for sure if lebron comes aboard. if you want simmons to INCREASE his role, then yeah, it's not going to happen with lebron there. but I don't think his role will decrease much

PHI NATION needs to protect simmons. He should dominate the ball.
Shout down BronInc attempt as using PHI as a boogeyman to shore up his 1st choice destination.

True, Redick signed a 1 year deal to preserve their cap space. But you're talking about 3 good shooters leaving and replacing them by moving a poor shooter off-ball for extended stretches. That will not make them better. They will need to put more around those guys and the only way they can do that is by sacrificing long term development for short term gain.

He left Miami in a SnT... are they better off?
What can PHI send back to CLE in a SnT that will leave them better off than pre Lebron 2.0?

And yeah, I knew CP3 in HOU was going to be awesome. That's two players that are great on or off ball. And Harden's usage went up because HOU made a conscious effort to embrace the ISO switching defenses were giving them rather than forcing the PNR sets. You'll notice that anytime defenses didn't switch the Rockets just ran their PnR stuff.

Simmons isn't great off ball and Lebron can be but doesn't want to be. It's just what it is. And to be clear, Lebron and Embiid aren't great shooters outside 10 feet either. That's a lot of marginal shooters on the perimeter.

[ChokeFasncists]

Quite possibly, maybe unless LBJ goes to Philly. (or PG or someone like that)

OP: Maybe it's Kyrie? He was out for season, wouldn't commit and might have lingering health issues.

If Lebron goes to Philly they don't make the Finals. They need to let the process play out, not render Simmons useless by taking the ball out of his hands... and not remove Embiid from the paint to clear driving lanes for Lebron. Lebron is fools gold for most teams at this point.

Well, lets see how it plays out, we know that Philly is trying to get LBJ. Maybe Simmons get a J? Maybe LBJ is older and after getting swept would defer more? Or he develops a lethal J and hard roll and plays more off the ball?

They're gonna be real good, the question is just whether Boston is better.

But it is true that, LBJ and Simmons are too similar, kinda sad to have them on the same team

[Pickled Prunes]

Quite possibly, maybe unless LBJ goes to Philly. (or PG or someone like that)

OP: Maybe it's Kyrie? He was out for season, wouldn't commit and might have lingering health issues.

If Lebron goes to Philly they don't make the Finals. They need to let the process play out, not render Simmons useless by taking the ball out of his hands... and not remove Embiid from the paint to clear driving lanes for Lebron. Lebron is fools gold for most teams at this point.

Well, lets see how it plays out, we know that Philly is trying to get LBJ. Maybe Simmons get a J? Maybe LBJ is older and after getting swept would defer more? Or he develops a lethal J and hard roll and plays more off the ball?

They're gonna be real good, the question is just whether Boston is better.

But it is true that, LBJ and Simmons are too similar, kinda sad to have them on the same team

You know, Lebron would be a much better fit on IND. They're tougher and more well rounded, yet leaderless.
Plus it's closer to home!

[dice]

You kind of spelled out the issue. If Lebron went to PHI they would need to be all in right now. Lebron isn't waiting for Fultz to figure it out so he gets cast aside ala Waiters and Wiggins. Redick, Belinelli and Ilyasova are free agents. Lebron is eating all your cap space so which of these guys do you go all in with? Probably only Redick, but will he take a discount? Can you outbid his other offers? If a decision by Redick has implications of your teams future, is it a sign that you've already failed?

there's a reason redick only signed a 1 year deal

My point is that the Sixers will have less when Lebron leaves than when he arrives.

not if they are able to use his salary slot

And yes, there are many things non-shooters can do to help a team off-ball. But taking a player away from his greatest strength hurts the team. All you can hope is that he can defend like Roberson, (which he can't,) because that's my best comp for Simmons when he doesn't have the ball in his hands.

he can be a slasher off ball looking for easy buckets. he can hunt for rebounds. and the primary role he has now doesn't have to change much. particularly if brett brown is smart and keeps one of lebron or simmons on the floor at all times

kyrie's usage went from 30.2% to 28.2% the year lebron arrived. the ball was in his hands nearly as much. it was the other players on the team that got less action. when cp3 was added to the rockets this year his usage remained the same and harden's actually went UP

it was embiid that was far and away the usage leader on philly this season. his role will be diminished for sure if lebron comes aboard. if you want simmons to INCREASE his role, then yeah, it's not going to happen with lebron there. but I don't think his role will decrease much

PHI NATION needs to protect simmons. He should dominate the ball.
Shout down BronInc attempt as using PHI as a boogeyman to shore up his 1st choice destination.

the clippers?

[dice]

double post

[dice]

there's a reason redick only signed a 1 year deal


not if they are able to use his salary slot


he can be a slasher off ball looking for easy buckets. he can hunt for rebounds. and the primary role he has now doesn't have to change much. particularly if brett brown is smart and keeps one of lebron or simmons on the floor at all times

kyrie's usage went from 30.2% to 28.2% the year lebron arrived. the ball was in his hands nearly as much. it was the other players on the team that got less action. when cp3 was added to the rockets this year his usage remained the same and harden's actually went UP

it was embiid that was far and away the usage leader on philly this season. his role will be diminished for sure if lebron comes aboard. if you want simmons to INCREASE his role, then yeah, it's not going to happen with lebron there. but I don't think his role will decrease much

PHI NATION needs to protect simmons. He should dominate the ball.
Shout down BronInc attempt as using PHI as a boogeyman to shore up his 1st choice destination.

True, Redick signed a 1 year deal to preserve their cap space. But you're talking about 3 good shooters leaving and replacing them by moving a poor shooter off-ball for extended stretches. That will not make them better. They will need to put more around those guys and the only way they can do that is by sacrificing long term development for short term gain.

Simmons isn't great off ball and Lebron can be but doesn't want to be. It's just what it is. And to be clear, Lebron and Embiid aren't great shooters outside 10 feet either. That's a lot of marginal shooters on the perimeter.

they'll have saric and covington, who are solid to good shooters and will be more open than ever

He left Miami in a SnT... are they better off?

about as well off as they were before he took his talents there. and they didn't have embiid and simmons to turn the page with. they had a washed up wade and a soon to be out of the league chris bosh

What can PHI send back to CLE in a SnT that will leave them better off than pre Lebron 2.0?

cleveland was garbage before lebron's return, they'll be back to square one after, and they had tremendous success when he was there

[chipchipperson]

Jesus, some of you sixers fans are hilarious.

i'm quite certain that "the process" would have included making a play for lebron this offseason

as for simmons...he can still have similar usage in the same role with lebron there. just as kyrie's usage was not markedly impacted when lebron returned to cleveland. same with harden/cp3. two high usage guys with overlapping skillsets can coexist just fine. the role players just have their roles reduced. heck, simmons might actually develop a jumpshot during lebron's stay. imagine that

Yep, as you elude to, all the guys you mention are elite offensive players that could already shoot and were comfortable playing off-ball. Do you think Lebron wants to sign up, hoping that Simmons isn't a waste of space off-ball?

And to be clear... I am not a Sixers fan. I'm just pointing out that it would be a bad move strategically. They didn't suck on purpose for five years just to pick up an aging super-star that will certainly leave them in a heap of misery. If they win a ring it will be worth it... but they won't. And then Lebron leaves or retires and then what? Lose on purpose for a few more years? They need to look long term and Lebron's 1+1 deals are the opposite of long term.

You say aging superstar, I say best player in the world. There's no context in which adding the best player in the world could be percieved as a negative.

[Pickled Prunes]

i'm quite certain that "the process" would have included making a play for lebron this offseason

as for simmons...he can still have similar usage in the same role with lebron there. just as kyrie's usage was not markedly impacted when lebron returned to cleveland. same with harden/cp3. two high usage guys with overlapping skillsets can coexist just fine. the role players just have their roles reduced. heck, simmons might actually develop a jumpshot during lebron's stay. imagine that

Yep, as you elude to, all the guys you mention are elite offensive players that could already shoot and were comfortable playing off-ball. Do you think Lebron wants to sign up, hoping that Simmons isn't a waste of space off-ball?

And to be clear... I am not a Sixers fan. I'm just pointing out that it would be a bad move strategically. They didn't suck on purpose for five years just to pick up an aging super-star that will certainly leave them in a heap of misery. If they win a ring it will be worth it... but they won't. And then Lebron leaves or retires and then what? Lose on purpose for a few more years? They need to look long term and Lebron's 1+1 deals are the opposite of long term.

You say aging superstar, I say best player in the world. There's no context in which adding the best player in the world could be percieved as a negative.

This is that context. The two stars in PHI aren't very good at the thing Lebron needs to be surrounded by to be successful. From a basketball perspective it's pretty clear.