Raptors, Wolves Held Exploratory Talks In 2017 On DeMar DeRozan For Andrew Wiggins

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Raptors, Wolves Held Exploratory Talks In 2017 On DeMar DeRozan For Andrew Wiggins 

Post#1 » by RealGM Wiretap » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:25 pm

The Toronto Raptors held expiatory discussions with the Minnesota Timberwolves during the 2017 offseason on a deal centered around DeMar DeRozan for Andrew Wiggins.


Wiggins ultimately signed a five-year extension with the Wolves.


DeRozan can become a free agent in 2020.

Via Marc Stein/New York Times

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Re: Raptors, Wolves Held Exploratory Talks In 2017 On DeMar DeRozan For Andrew Wiggins 

Post#2 » by ChokeFasncists » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:18 am

Homecoming?
MorbidHEAT wrote:My dislike for Lin started during Linsanity. It was absurd. It's probably irrational dislike at this point, but man he gets on my nerves. He's been tearing us up though.
Thanks for the honesty.
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Re: Raptors, Wolves Held Exploratory Talks In 2017 On DeMar DeRozan For Andrew Wiggins 

Post#3 » by Sam195 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:43 am

I like this deal more than the alleged Kawhi trade proposal. Wiggins inked a 5 year max extension with the Wolves (no opt out) so he is locked in for next 5 seasons. I believe Demar has two more seasons on his contract before he can opt out but he will be making less than Wiggins until he inks a new deal. The Wolves are hesitant to pay luxury tax when KAT's max extension and a potential max Jimmy Butler contract kick in for the 19-20 season in addition to Wiggins. I could even see this swap happen before the season since the Wolves want to show an immediate commitment to winning in order to retain Butler in free agency especially with rumors floating that he and Kyrie are discussing a team up in NY to either play for the Knicks or Brooklyn Nets after they hit free agency. Wiggins should be able to shine being the guy on his hometown Team which for basketball comes with less pressure than playing on a US squad the complete opposite of the NHL and the recent leaf hoopla over John Tavares.
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Re: Raptors, Wolves Held Exploratory Talks In 2017 On DeMar DeRozan For Andrew Wiggins 

Post#4 » by Warchant » Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:31 am

Good deal for Tor if it happens...get younger and more control over a potentially better player
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Re: Raptors, Wolves Held Exploratory Talks In 2017 On DeMar DeRozan For Andrew Wiggins 

Post#5 » by Def Leppard » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:16 am

I'm not convinced Wiggins will ever be as good as Demar. Glad to didn't do this :)

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Re: Raptors, Wolves Held Exploratory Talks In 2017 On DeMar DeRozan For Andrew Wiggins 

Post#6 » by Pickled Prunes » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:27 am

ChokeFasncists wrote:Homecoming?

I am not a Derozan fan, but this deal would sink TOR. I really just don't think much of Wiggins' decision making.

Fortunately, it was a year ago so we don't really need to talk about it. :D
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Re: Raptors, Wolves Held Exploratory Talks In 2017 On DeMar DeRozan For Andrew Wiggins 

Post#7 » by cavs4872 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:38 am

I think this is a total nonfactor, lol; like what are the differences between DMDR and Wiggins?
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Re: Raptors, Wolves Held Exploratory Talks In 2017 On DeMar DeRozan For Andrew Wiggins 

Post#8 » by Mwd1981 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:02 am

Nobody wants to be a Timberwolf other than KG.
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Re: Raptors, Wolves Held Exploratory Talks In 2017 On DeMar DeRozan For Andrew Wiggins 

Post#9 » by ChokeFasncists » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:37 am

Pickled Prunes wrote:
ChokeFasncists wrote:Homecoming?

I am not a Derozan fan, but this deal would sink TOR. I really just don't think much of Wiggins' decision making.

Fortunately, it was a year ago so we don't really need to talk about it. :D

Terrible deal given out by the Wolves.

Now they've got KAT and Butler coming up.

Who gave it to him? Thibs? Layden? That would make a lot of sense. ~lol~
MorbidHEAT wrote:My dislike for Lin started during Linsanity. It was absurd. It's probably irrational dislike at this point, but man he gets on my nerves. He's been tearing us up though.
Thanks for the honesty.
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Re: Raptors, Wolves Held Exploratory Talks In 2017 On DeMar DeRozan For Andrew Wiggins 

Post#10 » by Pickled Prunes » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:22 pm

ChokeFasncists wrote:
Pickled Prunes wrote:
ChokeFasncists wrote:Homecoming?

I am not a Derozan fan, but this deal would sink TOR. I really just don't think much of Wiggins' decision making.

Fortunately, it was a year ago so we don't really need to talk about it. :D

Terrible deal given out by the Wolves.

Now they've got KAT and Butler coming up.

Who gave it to him? Thibs? Layden? That would make a lot of sense. ~lol~

Agreed... but Butler may be gone. FA historically don't go to MIN. They had to hang on to Wiggins.
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Re: Raptors, Wolves Held Exploratory Talks In 2017 On DeMar DeRozan For Andrew Wiggins 

Post#11 » by ChokeFasncists » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:22 pm

Pickled Prunes wrote:
ChokeFasncists wrote:
Pickled Prunes wrote:I am not a Derozan fan, but this deal would sink TOR. I really just don't think much of Wiggins' decision making.

Fortunately, it was a year ago so we don't really need to talk about it. :D

Terrible deal given out by the Wolves.

Now they've got KAT and Butler coming up.

Who gave it to him? Thibs? Layden? That would make a lot of sense. ~lol~

Agreed... but Butler may be gone. FA historically don't go to MIN. They had to hang on to Wiggins.

Except for Joe Smith?

What would happen to Wiggins if they didn't give it to him? RFA? QO? Trade request?
MorbidHEAT wrote:My dislike for Lin started during Linsanity. It was absurd. It's probably irrational dislike at this point, but man he gets on my nerves. He's been tearing us up though.
Thanks for the honesty.
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Re: Raptors, Wolves Held Exploratory Talks In 2017 On DeMar DeRozan For Andrew Wiggins 

Post#12 » by Pickled Prunes » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:14 am

ChokeFasncists wrote:
Pickled Prunes wrote:
ChokeFasncists wrote:Terrible deal given out by the Wolves.

Now they've got KAT and Butler coming up.

Who gave it to him? Thibs? Layden? That would make a lot of sense. ~lol~

Agreed... but Butler may be gone. FA historically don't go to MIN. They had to hang on to Wiggins.

Except for Joe Smith?

What would happen to Wiggins if they didn't give it to him? RFA? QO? Trade request?

I try and make a point an you come back with Joe Smith?... Well played! :D

Somebody would have offered Wiggins something at least almost as ridiculous in RFA. But by then he may be disgruntled. I think they felt historical pressure to lock him in as soon as possible.
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Re: Raptors, Wolves Held Exploratory Talks In 2017 On DeMar DeRozan For Andrew Wiggins 

Post#13 » by ChokeFasncists » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:47 am

Pickled Prunes wrote:
ChokeFasncists wrote:
Pickled Prunes wrote:Agreed... but Butler may be gone. FA historically don't go to MIN. They had to hang on to Wiggins.

Except for Joe Smith?

What would happen to Wiggins if they didn't give it to him? RFA? QO? Trade request?

I try and make a point an you come back with Joe Smith?... Well played! :D

Somebody would have offered Wiggins something at least almost as ridiculous in RFA. But by then he may be disgruntled. I think they felt historical pressure to lock him in as soon as possible.

Ah, tough to be Minny......

He got 150 for 5 years, OPJ 100 for 4, that's much more reasonable for an unproven guy.

But he is indeed more talented than OPJ. Only Embiid also got a big contract from that draft class.
MorbidHEAT wrote:My dislike for Lin started during Linsanity. It was absurd. It's probably irrational dislike at this point, but man he gets on my nerves. He's been tearing us up though.
Thanks for the honesty.
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Re: Raptors, Wolves Held Exploratory Talks In 2017 On DeMar DeRozan For Andrew Wiggins 

Post#14 » by Pickled Prunes » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:58 am

ChokeFasncists wrote:
Pickled Prunes wrote:
ChokeFasncists wrote:Except for Joe Smith?

What would happen to Wiggins if they didn't give it to him? RFA? QO? Trade request?

I try and make a point an you come back with Joe Smith?... Well played! :D

Somebody would have offered Wiggins something at least almost as ridiculous in RFA. But by then he may be disgruntled. I think they felt historical pressure to lock him in as soon as possible.

Ah, tough to be Minny......

He got 150 for 5 years, OPJ 100 for 4, that's much more reasonable for an unproven guy.

But he is indeed more talented than OPJ. Only Embiid also got a big contract from that draft class.

He may be more physically gifted than OPJ... but OPJ seems to have more between the ears. I'll take Evan Turner on his 4/$70 over either of these guys. Overpaid all around!
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Re: Raptors, Wolves Held Exploratory Talks In 2017 On DeMar DeRozan For Andrew Wiggins 

Post#15 » by ChokeFasncists » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:36 am

Pickled Prunes wrote:
ChokeFasncists wrote:
Pickled Prunes wrote:I try and make a point an you come back with Joe Smith?... Well played! :D

Somebody would have offered Wiggins something at least almost as ridiculous in RFA. But by then he may be disgruntled. I think they felt historical pressure to lock him in as soon as possible.

Ah, tough to be Minny......

He got 150 for 5 years, OPJ 100 for 4, that's much more reasonable for an unproven guy.

But he is indeed more talented than OPJ. Only Embiid also got a big contract from that draft class.

He may be more physically gifted than OPJ... but OPJ seems to have more between the ears. I'll take Evan Turner on his 4/$70 over either of these guys. Overpaid all around!

8/2..... :lol:
MorbidHEAT wrote:My dislike for Lin started during Linsanity. It was absurd. It's probably irrational dislike at this point, but man he gets on my nerves. He's been tearing us up though.
Thanks for the honesty.
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Re: Raptors, Wolves Held Exploratory Talks In 2017 On DeMar DeRozan For Andrew Wiggins 

Post#16 » by Pickled Prunes » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:47 pm

ChokeFasncists wrote:
Pickled Prunes wrote:
ChokeFasncists wrote:Ah, tough to be Minny......

He got 150 for 5 years, OPJ 100 for 4, that's much more reasonable for an unproven guy.

But he is indeed more talented than OPJ. Only Embiid also got a big contract from that draft class.

He may be more physically gifted than OPJ... but OPJ seems to have more between the ears. I'll take Evan Turner on his 4/$70 over either of these guys. Overpaid all around!

8/2..... :lol:

I missed something.... you mean Turner's stats. 8/3/2? Sure, but that's more about Dame and CJ being ball dominant in this offense, not about the quality of the player. It was a bad team fit. Turner had a 24+ USG% in PHI and he's down to under 16 in POR.

I actually like both players a lot. I just think Turner and OPJ should be making about $7M less per season. OPJ at $18M feels about right. Turner would be pretty good on Smart's new deal if he were in a system that used him. In this current system he might be worth the MLE.

Keep in mind, Turner was brought in as a trade chip more than a player. Olshey had cap space and needed to get to the salary floor. He locked in a wing because they are the most valuable position in the NBA. He misread the market for sure but with all the cap space available next season he may find a way to make this right. It was a gamble but overall, the deal made more sense to the Blazers than most people recognize.

With OPJ the Wiz simply had no choice.
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Re: Raptors, Wolves Held Exploratory Talks In 2017 On DeMar DeRozan For Andrew Wiggins 

Post#17 » by ChokeFasncists » Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:57 am

Pickled Prunes wrote:
ChokeFasncists wrote:
Pickled Prunes wrote:He may be more physically gifted than OPJ... but OPJ seems to have more between the ears. I'll take Evan Turner on his 4/$70 over either of these guys. Overpaid all around!

8/2..... :lol:

I missed something.... you mean Turner's stats. 8/3/2? Sure, but that's more about Dame and CJ being ball dominant in this offense, not about the quality of the player. It was a bad team fit. Turner had a 24+ USG% in PHI and he's down to under 16 in POR.

I actually like both players a lot. I just think Turner and OPJ should be making about $7M less per season. OPJ at $18M feels about right. Turner would be pretty good on Smart's new deal if he were in a system that used him. In this current system he might be worth the MLE.

Keep in mind, Turner was brought in as a trade chip more than a player. Olshey had cap space and needed to get to the salary floor. He locked in a wing because they are the most valuable position in the NBA. He misread the market for sure but with all the cap space available next season he may find a way to make this right. It was a gamble but overall, the deal made more sense to the Blazers than most people recognize.

With OPJ the Wiz simply had no choice.

Is Turner tradeable? Wouldn't it have made more sense to trade him instead of Crabbe?

Apparently Nurkic is pretty ball dominant too?
MorbidHEAT wrote:My dislike for Lin started during Linsanity. It was absurd. It's probably irrational dislike at this point, but man he gets on my nerves. He's been tearing us up though.
Thanks for the honesty.
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Re: Raptors, Wolves Held Exploratory Talks In 2017 On DeMar DeRozan For Andrew Wiggins 

Post#18 » by Pickled Prunes » Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:14 pm

ChokeFasncists wrote:
Pickled Prunes wrote:
ChokeFasncists wrote:8/2..... :lol:

I missed something.... you mean Turner's stats. 8/3/2? Sure, but that's more about Dame and CJ being ball dominant in this offense, not about the quality of the player. It was a bad team fit. Turner had a 24+ USG% in PHI and he's down to under 16 in POR.

I actually like both players a lot. I just think Turner and OPJ should be making about $7M less per season. OPJ at $18M feels about right. Turner would be pretty good on Smart's new deal if he were in a system that used him. In this current system he might be worth the MLE.

Keep in mind, Turner was brought in as a trade chip more than a player. Olshey had cap space and needed to get to the salary floor. He locked in a wing because they are the most valuable position in the NBA. He misread the market for sure but with all the cap space available next season he may find a way to make this right. It was a gamble but overall, the deal made more sense to the Blazers than most people recognize.

With OPJ the Wiz simply had no choice.

Is Turner tradeable? Wouldn't it have made more sense to trade him instead of Crabbe?

Apparently Nurkic is pretty ball dominant too?

Well, as I said, it was a miscalculation. When Turner was signed in 2016, the projected 2017 salary cap was $108M. As that number started to drop the Turner and Crabbe signings made less and less sense. Maybe Turner could be moved at the deadline but for sure next off season when a lot of teams will have cap space and he will be expiring.

I was disappointed that the Blazers traded Crabbe. (It isn't my money.) But Turner is a better basketball player in probably every area other than 3pt shooting. Turner can run an offense and defend multiple positions. He does a lot of things that don't show up in the stat sheets. He's like a not nearly as good, 6' 7" Al Horford. :D Not real dynamic but way more between the ears than Crabbe.

Nurkic could actually be a Horford type player eventually... He could also turn into Robin Lopez. Somewhere between Eastern All-Star and decedent roll player. I don't mind him having the ball but I wish he was a touch less excited to shoot. I thought that contract was pretty fair.
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Re: Raptors, Wolves Held Exploratory Talks In 2017 On DeMar DeRozan For Andrew Wiggins 

Post#19 » by ChokeFasncists » Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:47 am

Pickled Prunes wrote:
ChokeFasncists wrote:
Pickled Prunes wrote:I missed something.... you mean Turner's stats. 8/3/2? Sure, but that's more about Dame and CJ being ball dominant in this offense, not about the quality of the player. It was a bad team fit. Turner had a 24+ USG% in PHI and he's down to under 16 in POR.

I actually like both players a lot. I just think Turner and OPJ should be making about $7M less per season. OPJ at $18M feels about right. Turner would be pretty good on Smart's new deal if he were in a system that used him. In this current system he might be worth the MLE.

Keep in mind, Turner was brought in as a trade chip more than a player. Olshey had cap space and needed to get to the salary floor. He locked in a wing because they are the most valuable position in the NBA. He misread the market for sure but with all the cap space available next season he may find a way to make this right. It was a gamble but overall, the deal made more sense to the Blazers than most people recognize.

With OPJ the Wiz simply had no choice.

Is Turner tradeable? Wouldn't it have made more sense to trade him instead of Crabbe?

Apparently Nurkic is pretty ball dominant too?

Well, as I said, it was a miscalculation. When Turner was signed in 2016, the projected 2017 salary cap was $108M. As that number started to drop the Turner and Crabbe signings made less and less sense. Maybe Turner could be moved at the deadline but for sure next off season when a lot of teams will have cap space and he will be expiring.

I was disappointed that the Blazers traded Crabbe. (It isn't my money.) But Turner is a better basketball player in probably every area other than 3pt shooting. Turner can run an offense and defend multiple positions. He does a lot of things that don't show up in the stat sheets. He's like a not nearly as good, 6' 7" Al Horford. :D Not real dynamic but way more between the ears than Crabbe.

Nurkic could actually be a Horford type player eventually... He could also turn into Robin Lopez. Somewhere between Eastern All-Star and decedent roll player. I don't mind him having the ball but I wish he was a touch less excited to shoot. I thought that contract was pretty fair.

The question is, wouldn't Crabbe have fit better with those three ball dominant guys than Turner?
MorbidHEAT wrote:My dislike for Lin started during Linsanity. It was absurd. It's probably irrational dislike at this point, but man he gets on my nerves. He's been tearing us up though.
Thanks for the honesty.
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Re: Raptors, Wolves Held Exploratory Talks In 2017 On DeMar DeRozan For Andrew Wiggins 

Post#20 » by Pickled Prunes » Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:18 pm

ChokeFasncists wrote:
Pickled Prunes wrote:
ChokeFasncists wrote:Is Turner tradeable? Wouldn't it have made more sense to trade him instead of Crabbe?

Apparently Nurkic is pretty ball dominant too?

Well, as I said, it was a miscalculation. When Turner was signed in 2016, the projected 2017 salary cap was $108M. As that number started to drop the Turner and Crabbe signings made less and less sense. Maybe Turner could be moved at the deadline but for sure next off season when a lot of teams will have cap space and he will be expiring.

I was disappointed that the Blazers traded Crabbe. (It isn't my money.) But Turner is a better basketball player in probably every area other than 3pt shooting. Turner can run an offense and defend multiple positions. He does a lot of things that don't show up in the stat sheets. He's like a not nearly as good, 6' 7" Al Horford. :D Not real dynamic but way more between the ears than Crabbe.

Nurkic could actually be a Horford type player eventually... He could also turn into Robin Lopez. Somewhere between Eastern All-Star and decedent roll player. I don't mind him having the ball but I wish he was a touch less excited to shoot. I thought that contract was pretty fair.

The question is, wouldn't Crabbe have fit better with those three ball dominant guys than Turner?

Maybe, but there are two factors:
1) Crabbe is the player the Nets wanted.
2) You've seen that the Blazers need other play-makers in the playoffs the past few seasons. Turner wasn't enough but he's better than Crabbe.

Like I said, I wish they would have bit the bullet and kept both.

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