RealGM

The Minnesota Timberwolves would like to include Gorgui Dieng in any trade involving Jimmy Butler.

The Wolves signed Dieng to a four-year, $64 million extension in October of 2016, which means Dieng still has $48 million over the next three seasons remaining on his contract.

Most teams interested in Butler would like to maximize their cap space for 2019 and will balk at taking back Dieng.

Via Zach Lowe/ESPN

Did Dieng get a hold of the owners' very private photos before the contract signing or what?

hyberx wrote:Did Dieng get a hold of the owners' very private photos before the contract signing or what?

2016 was the year the cap jumped and role players took full advantage of it while teams gave away stupid contracts. Mozgov, Deng, Dieng, Jordan Clarkson, Evan Turner, Evan Fournier and quite a few others.

As for the Wolves hoping to include Dieng in a Butler trade, good luck with that. Some teams may be willing to give up some assets for a potential rental but not very many will be willing to take on extra baggage to boot unless you throw in sweeteners (picks, young players) or just trade Butler and Dieng for next to nothing where the sweetener becomes the Butler rental.

For the teams Butler wants to play for (Clippers, Nets and Knicks), I just don't see them ruining their chances at 2 max contracts next year unless a 3rd team comes in and takes on Dieng's contract as long as they get some sweeteners (picks, young players).

lol good luck

They can swap bad contracts, take Galinari and then waive him.

tigerae wrote:

hyberx wrote:Did Dieng get a hold of the owners' very private photos before the contract signing or what?

2016 was the year the cap jumped and role players took full advantage of it while teams gave away stupid contracts. Mozgov, Deng, Dieng, Jordan Clarkson, Evan Turner, Evan Fournier and quite a few others.

As for the Wolves hoping to include Dieng in a Butler trade, good luck with that. Some teams may be willing to give up some assets for a potential rental but not very many will be willing to take on extra baggage to boot unless you throw in sweeteners (picks, young players) or just trade Butler and Dieng for next to nothing where the sweetener becomes the Butler rental.

For the teams Butler wants to play for (Clippers, Nets and Knicks), I just don't see them ruining their chances at 2 max contracts next year unless a 3rd team comes in and takes on Dieng's contract as long as they get some sweeteners (picks, young players).

Fournier may or may not be slightly overpaid but he doesn't belong in that list. He's been the best player on a bad team for years.

bqmuzik wrote:They can swap bad contracts, take Galinari and then waive him.

Clippers should do this. Dieng is not useless and he's way healthier than Gallo will ever be again. It also helps free up a bit more space for next offseason and should reduce the price they have to pay to fetch Butler.

hyberx wrote:Did Dieng get a hold of the owners' very private photos before the contract signing or what?

Most people don’t realize that Gorgui was #42 in the NBA in RPM in 2015-16.

It was not a fluke either, because he was #33 in 2016-17.

The reason for his big drop off was a move to the bench, when Taj Gibson arrived. Gorgui is a fantastic complimentary player, challenging shots all over the floor, and was high in nearly all hustle stats. However, he has an extremely slow jumper, that requires starters on the floor to create some gravity get the shot off.

As for the article, trying to dump Gorgui would be short-sighted, particularly to the teams on Jimmy’s list.

Those teams will get great value from their cap space, with Jimmy Butler helping them to recruit a star free agent. MIn won’t be doing that this year, with KAT, Wiggins, and Teague on the books, and a worse destination.

Instead of trading Gorgui for an expiring, MIN should be looking to trade expirings to these teams for a two year deal. For example, the Clippers might pay a certain amount to get Jimmy. What other assets would they add if MIN tacked on taking Gallinari’s two year deal for the expiring Taj Gibson, and not Dieng?

This thinking might make it possible for the Raptors to get involved. Ibaka is the superficial "accomplished vet with more polished similar skillset" with a shorter deal at similar money. Him plus a prospect of two might be the best offer MIN will get


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Wolves should reboot the next 2-3 seasons with a new front office. The critical years will come in the second half of Towns extension and losing Butler without an all star coming back closes this window, which was impossible with a very rough west and Wiggins max contract. In that sense, they should seek to get assets now and include Dieng only make things harder.

They should add Gibson (expiring) and Teague to get younger players, specifically players in their second contracts (23-26 YO) with at least a couple years under control, late 1sts or high 2nds. I dont see the point in having valuable 30YO players right now.

You gave Tyus, KBD and Okogie a good look this season, if they panout you compete for the 8th a have a promising core, if they not, you have a top10 pick next season searching for a 2nd all star (or 3rd if Wiggins leaps against common sense) that fits Towns timeline.

shrink wrote:

hyberx wrote:Did Dieng get a hold of the owners' very private photos before the contract signing or what?

Most people don’t realize that Gorgui was #42 in the NBA in RPM in 2015-16.

It was not a fluke either, because he was #33 in 2016-17.

The reason for his big drop off was a move to the bench, when Taj Gibson arrived. Gorgui is a fantastic complimentary player, challenging shots all over the floor, and was high in nearly all hustle stats. However, he has an extremely slow jumper, that requires starters on the floor to create some gravity get the shot off.

Making an argument off of “RPM” is the dumbest shyt I’ve seen. He doesn’t get the minutes as most because he’s not good and didn’t deserve that contract before hand. All these basketball analytics nerds need to stop with that.

dubbmotta wrote:

shrink wrote:

hyberx wrote:Did Dieng get a hold of the owners' very private photos before the contract signing or what?

Most people don’t realize that Gorgui was #42 in the NBA in RPM in 2015-16.

It was not a fluke either, because he was #33 in 2016-17.

The reason for his big drop off was a move to the bench, when Taj Gibson arrived. Gorgui is a fantastic complimentary player, challenging shots all over the floor, and was high in nearly all hustle stats. However, he has an extremely slow jumper, that requires starters on the floor to create some gravity get the shot off.

Making an argument off of “RPM” is the dumbest shyt I’ve seen. He doesn’t get the minutes as most because he’s not good and didn’t deserve that contract before hand. All these basketball analytics nerds need to stop with that.

He was in the top 20 in the nba in minutes those years, so it’s not about limited minutes.

But thanks for your incite and research on the issue. Very impressive.

Ridiculous contract

dubbmotta wrote:

shrink wrote:

hyberx wrote:Did Dieng get a hold of the owners' very private photos before the contract signing or what?

Most people don’t realize that Gorgui was #42 in the NBA in RPM in 2015-16.

It was not a fluke either, because he was #33 in 2016-17.

The reason for his big drop off was a move to the bench, when Taj Gibson arrived. Gorgui is a fantastic complimentary player, challenging shots all over the floor, and was high in nearly all hustle stats. However, he has an extremely slow jumper, that requires starters on the floor to create some gravity get the shot off.

Making an argument off of “RPM” is the dumbest shyt I’ve seen. He doesn’t get the minutes as most because he’s not good and didn’t deserve that contract before hand. All these basketball analytics nerds need to stop with that.

It's not a dumb argument at all. He is a nice player that can bring many positives to a team, but he has glaring offensive flaws. Did he deserve that contract? Of course not, but he isn't as trash as people now make him out to be.

He signed the extension in 2016, enough said. There are very few players from that summer that deserved what they got.

DubsPhilosophy wrote:

tigerae wrote:

hyberx wrote:Did Dieng get a hold of the owners' very private photos before the contract signing or what?

2016 was the year the cap jumped and role players took full advantage of it while teams gave away stupid contracts. Mozgov, Deng, Dieng, Jordan Clarkson, Evan Turner, Evan Fournier and quite a few others.

As for the Wolves hoping to include Dieng in a Butler trade, good luck with that. Some teams may be willing to give up some assets for a potential rental but not very many will be willing to take on extra baggage to boot unless you throw in sweeteners (picks, young players) or just trade Butler and Dieng for next to nothing where the sweetener becomes the Butler rental.

For the teams Butler wants to play for (Clippers, Nets and Knicks), I just don't see them ruining their chances at 2 max contracts next year unless a 3rd team comes in and takes on Dieng's contract as long as they get some sweeteners (picks, young players).

Fournier may or may not be slightly overpaid but he doesn't belong in that list. He's been the best player on a bad team for years.

He's a good role player, but he doesn't change a team in to a playoff team. He deserves a Lou Williams type contract, 7-10 million a year max. 85 million for 5 years is over paid imo.

Sent from my SM-G935T using RealGM mobile app

Any Hopsin fans out there?

Jimmy holds more cards here than the Timberwolves think he does. As good as he is, he is somewhat injury prone, 29, and not a great locker room guy as he doesn’t seem to have patience for younger players. Not to mention he’s a free agent who will only sign with either the Nets, Knicks, or Clippers. That being said, I honestly think the Knicks might be the best suitor rn for both teams to take Butler and Gieng. His value isn’t as high as they Wolves think and ultimately they will likely get less back for him than the Pacers expected to get when they traded George to the Thunder. Knicks can give them a good 26 year old shooter with Hardaway Jr. who averaged 17 pts last year, Courtney Lee who’d be a good off the bench two way player and locker room guy to help mentor the younger guys, a young quick uptempo athletic pg with Emmanuel Mudiay who can get better with good coaching, an unprotected first rounder for 2020, and an unprotected second rounder for 2019. They can flip Jones to Phoenix who’s interested in him for one of their young stretch bigs maybe Bender and potentially a pick which will also make room for Mudiay as the backup pg. Meanwhile, the Knicks offload 2 bad contracts which the Timberwolves should be okay with inheriting considering no big free agent will want to play there anyway and they won’t have to pay Butler a max now, they gain a two way star that fits the New York style of basketball, and a young center/pf who could be inserted either behind Kanter while Robinson develops or at the power forward for while Porzingis is out and Vonleh can be the backup. Dieng plays more defense than Kanter and plays better at his natural position center so assuming Robinson really develops into a starting caliber center, they won’t have to pay Enes and can let him walk and have Dieng as the backup behind Mitchell for a more defense and rebounding front court. I’m sure Wolves fans won’t like this deal but they’re offloading Butler who as I said isn’t as valuable as they think he is for reasons listed earlier and Dieng’s contract and make themselves either good enough to make the bottom of the playoffs again with better chemistry and ball movement or a late lottery team that can draft a good young prospect to help restock their young depth which they gave a lot of away to get Butler in the first place. If Knicks fans want him they’re not gonna get him in free agency he made it clear the Clippers are his number 1 choice but he will resign with the Knicks assuming they trade for him. They don’t HAVE to do this I’d honestly prefer waiting it out a year and going after Beal from that dysfunctional Wizards team the next free agency but Butler does make sense for this group in some facets so this would be the best possible exchange for both teams assuming they decided to make one even though the Knicks probably have a better option just passing on him.

CJLoizzi wrote:Jimmy holds more cards here than the Timberwolves think he does. As good as he is, he is somewhat injury prone, 29, and not a great locker room guy as he doesn’t seem to have patience for younger players. Not to mention he’s a free agent who will only sign with either the Nets, Knicks, or Clippers. That being said, I honestly think the Knicks might be the best suitor rn for both teams to take Butler and Gieng. His value isn’t as high as they Wolves think and ultimately they will likely get less back for him than the Pacers expected to get when they traded George to the Thunder. Knicks can give them a good 26 year old shooter with Hardaway Jr. who averaged 17 pts last year, Courtney Lee who’d be a good off the bench two way player and locker room guy to help mentor the younger guys, a young quick uptempo athletic pg with Emmanuel Mudiay who can get better with good coaching, an unprotected first rounder for 2020, and an unprotected second rounder for 2019. They can flip Jones to Phoenix who’s interested in him for one of their young stretch bigs maybe Bender and potentially a pick which will also make room for Mudiay as the backup pg. Meanwhile, the Knicks offload 2 bad contracts which the Timberwolves should be okay with inheriting considering no big free agent will want to play there anyway and they won’t have to pay Butler a max now, they gain a two way star that fits the New York style of basketball, and a young center/pf who could be inserted either behind Kanter while Robinson develops or at the power forward for while Porzingis is out and Vonleh can be the backup. Dieng plays more defense than Kanter and plays better at his natural position center so assuming Robinson really develops into a starting caliber center, they won’t have to pay Enes and can let him walk and have Dieng as the backup behind Mitchell for a more defense and rebounding front court. I’m sure Wolves fans won’t like this deal but they’re offloading Butler who as I said isn’t as valuable as they think he is for reasons listed earlier and Dieng’s contract and make themselves either good enough to make the bottom of the playoffs again with better chemistry and ball movement or a late lottery team that can draft a good young prospect to help restock their young depth which they gave a lot of away to get Butler in the first place. If Knicks fans want him they’re not gonna get him in free agency he made it clear the Clippers are his number 1 choice but he will resign with the Knicks assuming they trade for him. They don’t HAVE to do this I’d honestly prefer waiting it out a year and going after Beal from that dysfunctional Wizards team the next free agency but Butler does make sense for this group in some facets so this would be the best possible exchange for both teams assuming they decided to make one even though the Knicks probably have a better option just passing on him.

I have a hard time believing that Minnesota can’t get a better deal than two bad contracts, a random, A 1st and 2nd round pick. Just because Butler is saying he only wants to sign an extension with those teams doesn’t mean another team won’t take a chance on him changing his mind

CJLoizzi wrote:Jimmy holds more cards here than the Timberwolves think he does. As good as he is, he is somewhat injury prone, 29, and not a great locker room guy as he doesn’t seem to have patience for younger players. Not to mention he’s a free agent who will only sign with either the Nets, Knicks, or Clippers. That being said, I honestly think the Knicks might be the best suitor rn for both teams to take Butler and Gieng. His value isn’t as high as they Wolves think and ultimately they will likely get less back for him than the Pacers expected to get when they traded George to the Thunder. Knicks can give them a good 26 year old shooter with Hardaway Jr. who averaged 17 pts last year, Courtney Lee who’d be a good off the bench two way player and locker room guy to help mentor the younger guys, a young quick uptempo athletic pg with Emmanuel Mudiay who can get better with good coaching, an unprotected first rounder for 2020, and an unprotected second rounder for 2019. They can flip Jones to Phoenix who’s interested in him for one of their young stretch bigs maybe Bender and potentially a pick which will also make room for Mudiay as the backup pg. Meanwhile, the Knicks offload 2 bad contracts which the Timberwolves should be okay with inheriting considering no big free agent will want to play there anyway and they won’t have to pay Butler a max now, they gain a two way star that fits the New York style of basketball, and a young center/pf who could be inserted either behind Kanter while Robinson develops or at the power forward for while Porzingis is out and Vonleh can be the backup. Dieng plays more defense than Kanter and plays better at his natural position center so assuming Robinson really develops into a starting caliber center, they won’t have to pay Enes and can let him walk and have Dieng as the backup behind Mitchell for a more defense and rebounding front court. I’m sure Wolves fans won’t like this deal but they’re offloading Butler who as I said isn’t as valuable as they think he is for reasons listed earlier and Dieng’s contract and make themselves either good enough to make the bottom of the playoffs again with better chemistry and ball movement or a late lottery team that can draft a good young prospect to help restock their young depth which they gave a lot of away to get Butler in the first place. If Knicks fans want him they’re not gonna get him in free agency he made it clear the Clippers are his number 1 choice but he will resign with the Knicks assuming they trade for him. They don’t HAVE to do this I’d honestly prefer waiting it out a year and going after Beal from that dysfunctional Wizards team the next free agency but Butler does make sense for this group in some facets so this would be the best possible exchange for both teams assuming they decided to make one even though the Knicks probably have a better option just passing on him.

I like your thinking but I think the Knicks should pass on Butler even if he's a good player. I'm not sure if he would gel well in the locker room. The Knicks just need to continue to draft better. Ntilikina looks like he will pan out, Knox and Robinson look promising. They just need to keep it going. If Porzingis gets too impatient on waiting for the rebuild, they should shop him as well.