Re: Danny Ainge Doesn't Think Celtics Necessarily Avoided Mistake With Rejected Justise Winslow Deal

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Danny Ainge Doesn't Think Celtics Necessarily Avoided Mistake With Rejected Justise Winslow Deal 

Post#1 » by RealGM Wiretap » Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:59 pm

The Boston Celtics aggressively pursued a trade for Justise Winslow during the 2015 NBA Draft.


The Celtics offered as many as four first round picks to move up to the Charlotte Hornets' selection at nine to draft Winslow. The Celtics were offering the 15th and 16th picks in that year's draft along with one first rounder from the Brooklyn Nets and another future first from either the Minnesota Timberwolves or Memphis Grizzlies.


With Winslow having a strong career but short of an All-Star talent and the Celtics eventually selecting Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum with picks from the Nets, it seems like Danny Ainge avoided a potential mistake in having his offer rejected.


“I don’t know,” said Ainge when asked if it feels like he barely avoided a car crash. “I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t feel like that at all. I don’t feel the same. I don’t feel like we avoided an accident, because there’s a whole bunch of ways to get players — through trades, through developing, through free agency — and you can’t just look back at history and say, ‘Oh, if we’d have made this trade, therefore this would have happened.’


“Like, that’s not how the world works. If we’d have made this trade, there’s a whole bunch of other trades that maybe could have happened as a result of making that trade that we would have pulled the trigger on or another team would have pulled the trigger on. So I don’t think you can view the world in hindsight like that, because none of us know the other pieces. There’s so many pieces that fall as the result of one trade that leads to another trade that leads to another trade that leads to your team. So I don’t know the cycle and the chain of events that would have happened had the trade happened on that draft night.”


Ainge insists he doesn't often throw his thoughts into reverse.


“Not really,” Ainge said. “I mean, I look back and evaluate what we did in the draft and how we evaluated all the players in that draft. I did that in 2016. I always evaluate the players from what we know and what could have happened, what could not have happened. But I don’t think about it anymore.”


Ainge is glad the Celtics remained patient.


“I just know that I’m glad that we were all able to be patient, and we’ve been very fortunate that our last group of picks have all turned out well,” Ainge said. “Listen, we have a lot of good players. We’ve been very fortunate in free agency and with trades and in the draft. We’ve had really good fortune over the last four years. That doesn’t always happen. It hasn’t always happened with us. We’ve made bad trades, we’ve made bad drafts and we’ve made bad free agent signings. We obviously had some bad luck last year with health, but with the good luck of the quality of players that we’ve been able to acquire for this team, I do feel very fortunate.


“But I also know how fleeting it can be, and we got a glimpse of that last year. So we’ll just appreciate this team while we have them and look forward to the future with this group of guys.”

Via Steve Bulpett/Boston Herald

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Re: Danny Ainge Doesn't Think Celtics Necessarily Avoided Mistake With Rejected Justise Winslow Deal 

Post#2 » by Kurtz » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:03 pm

Luckiest GM in the world, this guy.
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Re: Danny Ainge Doesn't Think Celtics Necessarily Avoided Mistake With Rejected Justise Winslow Deal 

Post#3 » by Sam195 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:10 pm

I remember this trade proposal happened in one of the first drafts that Adam Silver allowed teams to place protections on draft picks they had acquired from other teams. The four picks to trade up for Winslow includes the latest Brooklyn pick that Ainge owned (later flipped in the deal to cavs for Kyrie) however there is no way he deals that pick to Charlotte to move up without protecting it in the lottery. I think people made it sound like the Celtics were grossly overpaying but in hindsight they were really offering 4 non-lottery picks (2 they already had in 2015 at 15 and 16) to move up to draft Winslow who at the time was a top 5 talent on mock drafts who was dropping on the night of the draft. This is very similar to how the Spurs traded George Hill in 2011 for Kawhi who was also a top 5 player on mock drafts going in but some how started falling all the way down to 15. The only person that looks bad in this situation is Michael Jordan lol because Frank Kaminsky turned into a bust and MJ typically drafts underachievers for the slots he picks at so he might have been better off trading for 4 draft attempts than putting all his chips on one lottery selection.
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Re: Danny Ainge Doesn't Think Celtics Necessarily Avoided Mistake With Rejected Justise Winslow Deal 

Post#4 » by the_process » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:13 pm

Why is anyone asking Ainge about that? Oh wait, it was Bulpett? So Ainge fed him that question to make himself look better? Yep, pretty much.

I assume this has something to do with the fact AD wants nothing to do with you? :lol:
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Re: Danny Ainge Doesn't Think Celtics Necessarily Avoided Mistake With Rejected Justise Winslow Deal 

Post#5 » by Sam195 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:24 pm

Kurtz wrote:Luckiest GM in the world, this guy.


How so he made some bad deals of late - he overpaid signing Al Horford based on the 2016 salary cap and Gordon Hayward based on the 2017 salary cap. Neither when healthy were consistent allstars and now one is clearly showing signs of aging at a $30M+ cap hit while the other is very slow in his recovery from his injury (compare Hayward to Paul George who broke his leg during the Olympics).Compare Ainge's contract negotiating to that of RC Bufford with the Spurs (he signed Lamarcus Aldridge as ufa before the salary cap exploded and extended at a bargain before he became a ufa) or Masai Ujiri with the raptors (he got concessions in terms of contract term on deals recently signed by Lowry, Ibaka and Valanciunas and got Derozan to take less than the max). Aldridge is way more productive than both Horford and Hayward at a bargain salary. Same with the 4 raptors and Masai was easily able to trade the latter two in deals to land veteran allstars like Kawhi and Marc Gasol (who themselves are underpaid in the new cap era).

Ainge's specialty is in trades but not free agent signings and I question his draft record as pretty hit or miss like most GMs.
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Re: Danny Ainge Doesn't Think Celtics Necessarily Avoided Mistake With Rejected Justise Winslow Deal 

Post#6 » by Kurtz » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:37 pm

Sam195 wrote:
Kurtz wrote:Luckiest GM in the world, this guy.


How so he made some bad deals of late - he overpaid signing Al Horford based on the 2016 salary cap and Gordon Hayward based on the 2017 salary cap. Neither when healthy were consistent allstars and now one is clearly showing signs of aging at a $30M+ cap hit while the other is very slow in his recovery from his injury (compare Hayward to Paul George who broke his leg during the Olympics).Compare Ainge's contract negotiating to that of RC Bufford with the Spurs (he signed Lamarcus Aldridge as ufa before the salary cap exploded and extended at a bargain before he became a ufa) or Masai Ujiri with the raptors (he got concessions in terms of contract term on deals recently signed by Lowry, Ibaka and Valanciunas and got Derozan to take less than the max). Aldridge is way more productive than both Horford and Hayward at a bargain salary. Same with the 4 raptors and Masai was easily able to trade the latter two in deals to land veteran allstars like Kawhi and Marc Gasol (who themselves are underpaid in the new cap era).

Ainge's specialty is in trades but not free agent signings and I question his draft record as pretty hit or miss like most GMs.


That's my point - Ainge is generally considered to be the top GM in the league, while all he's done is massively rip off the two worst GMS in the league at the time (neither of whom will ever have a job again).

He's a great opportunist and has been extremely fortunate, that's all.
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Re: Danny Ainge Doesn't Think Celtics Necessarily Avoided Mistake With Rejected Justise Winslow Deal 

Post#7 » by Sam195 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:06 pm

Kurtz wrote:
Sam195 wrote:
Kurtz wrote:Luckiest GM in the world, this guy.


How so he made some bad deals of late - he overpaid signing Al Horford based on the 2016 salary cap and Gordon Hayward based on the 2017 salary cap. Neither when healthy were consistent allstars and now one is clearly showing signs of aging at a $30M+ cap hit while the other is very slow in his recovery from his injury (compare Hayward to Paul George who broke his leg during the Olympics).Compare Ainge's contract negotiating to that of RC Bufford with the Spurs (he signed Lamarcus Aldridge as ufa before the salary cap exploded and extended at a bargain before he became a ufa) or Masai Ujiri with the raptors (he got concessions in terms of contract term on deals recently signed by Lowry, Ibaka and Valanciunas and got Derozan to take less than the max). Aldridge is way more productive than both Horford and Hayward at a bargain salary. Same with the 4 raptors and Masai was easily able to trade the latter two in deals to land veteran allstars like Kawhi and Marc Gasol (who themselves are underpaid in the new cap era).

Ainge's specialty is in trades but not free agent signings and I question his draft record as pretty hit or miss like most GMs.


That's my point - Ainge is generally considered to be the top GM in the league, while all he's done is massively rip off the two worst GMS in the league at the time (neither of whom will ever have a job again).

He's a great opportunist and has been extremely fortunate, that's all.


Billy King is one who is the other worst gm? Ainge clearly colluded with Kevin McHale to get KG in a Celtics uniform. Then again he has also hustled better GMs as well he sold off Rondo (who was an expiring contract) to Donnie Nelson and the Mavericks for a decent haul. He also traded Jeff Green (who he drafted) for Ray Allen and Glen Davis to a young Sam Presti which was clearly one of his best trades as Celtics GM alongside the Brooklyn Trade, the Kyrie trade and getting IT4 (on a bargain contract) before that from the suns for a low first round pick.
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Re: Danny Ainge Doesn't Think Celtics Necessarily Avoided Mistake With Rejected Justise Winslow Deal 

Post#8 » by Patsfan1081 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:59 pm

Kurtz wrote:
Sam195 wrote:
Kurtz wrote:Luckiest GM in the world, this guy.


How so he made some bad deals of late - he overpaid signing Al Horford based on the 2016 salary cap and Gordon Hayward based on the 2017 salary cap. Neither when healthy were consistent allstars and now one is clearly showing signs of aging at a $30M+ cap hit while the other is very slow in his recovery from his injury (compare Hayward to Paul George who broke his leg during the Olympics).Compare Ainge's contract negotiating to that of RC Bufford with the Spurs (he signed Lamarcus Aldridge as ufa before the salary cap exploded and extended at a bargain before he became a ufa) or Masai Ujiri with the raptors (he got concessions in terms of contract term on deals recently signed by Lowry, Ibaka and Valanciunas and got Derozan to take less than the max). Aldridge is way more productive than both Horford and Hayward at a bargain salary. Same with the 4 raptors and Masai was easily able to trade the latter two in deals to land veteran allstars like Kawhi and Marc Gasol (who themselves are underpaid in the new cap era).

Ainge's specialty is in trades but not free agent signings and I question his draft record as pretty hit or miss like most GMs.


That's my point - Ainge is generally considered to be the top GM in the league, while all he's done is massively rip off the two worst GMS in the league at the time (neither of whom will ever have a job again).

He's a great opportunist and has been extremely fortunate, that's all.


:roll: :roll: You're all over the place.... Horford was an all star and a all NBA defender just last season. George's timeline wasn't the same either, he got injured in the summer, came back for the last six games of the season, then had another summer to rehab. Let me ask also how resigning Lowry to a max deal or Ibaka to twenty plus is noteworthy? Val at 16 x 3 is not that great either, he's an old school center that couldn't stay in at the end of games. I'm not going to list all of Ainge's accomplishments but trading a late first for IT, trading Jeff Green for what now looks like a good lottery pick from Memphis(also trading Green for Allen way back), trading a expiring Rondo for Crowder and a first are some other good trades outside the Nets and Tatum deals. He's also had some good late first round picks and under the radar signings.
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Re: Danny Ainge Doesn't Think Celtics Necessarily Avoided Mistake With Rejected Justise Winslow Deal 

Post#9 » by Patsfan1081 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:08 pm

Sam195 wrote:
Kurtz wrote:
Sam195 wrote:
How so he made some bad deals of late - he overpaid signing Al Horford based on the 2016 salary cap and Gordon Hayward based on the 2017 salary cap. Neither when healthy were consistent allstars and now one is clearly showing signs of aging at a $30M+ cap hit while the other is very slow in his recovery from his injury (compare Hayward to Paul George who broke his leg during the Olympics).Compare Ainge's contract negotiating to that of RC Bufford with the Spurs (he signed Lamarcus Aldridge as ufa before the salary cap exploded and extended at a bargain before he became a ufa) or Masai Ujiri with the raptors (he got concessions in terms of contract term on deals recently signed by Lowry, Ibaka and Valanciunas and got Derozan to take less than the max). Aldridge is way more productive than both Horford and Hayward at a bargain salary. Same with the 4 raptors and Masai was easily able to trade the latter two in deals to land veteran allstars like Kawhi and Marc Gasol (who themselves are underpaid in the new cap era).

Ainge's specialty is in trades but not free agent signings and I question his draft record as pretty hit or miss like most GMs.


That's my point - Ainge is generally considered to be the top GM in the league, while all he's done is massively rip off the two worst GMS in the league at the time (neither of whom will ever have a job again).

He's a great opportunist and has been extremely fortunate, that's all.


Billy King is one who is the other worst gm? Ainge clearly colluded with Kevin McHale to get KG in a Celtics uniform. Then again he has also hustled better GMs as well he sold off Rondo (who was an expiring contract) to Donnie Nelson and the Mavericks for a decent haul. He also traded Jeff Green (who he drafted) for Ray Allen and Glen Davis to a young Sam Presti which was clearly one of his best trades as Celtics GM alongside the Brooklyn Trade, the Kyrie trade and getting IT4 (on a bargain contract) before that from the suns for a low first round pick.


He's talking about BC but that's ridiculous. Everyone was killing Ainge for trading out of Fultz, even saying that he didn't get enough. If anything Ainge should get praised for his evaluation of Fultz and Tatum at the time. People also forget that KG was a expiring contract at the time and Al Jefferson was the best big man prospect out there. It als wasn't considered a heist at the time with the package Boston gave up, they were very fortunate to convince KG to resign. Same with Jaylen Brown, the concensous at the time was that either Dunn or Bender was the best available at 3. If he would have drafted one of those two people would be all over him now.
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Re: Danny Ainge Doesn't Think Celtics Necessarily Avoided Mistake With Rejected Justise Winslow Deal 

Post#10 » by Sam195 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:27 am

Patsfan1081 wrote:
Kurtz wrote:
Sam195 wrote:
How so he made some bad deals of late - he overpaid signing Al Horford based on the 2016 salary cap and Gordon Hayward based on the 2017 salary cap. Neither when healthy were consistent allstars and now one is clearly showing signs of aging at a $30M+ cap hit while the other is very slow in his recovery from his injury (compare Hayward to Paul George who broke his leg during the Olympics).Compare Ainge's contract negotiating to that of RC Bufford with the Spurs (he signed Lamarcus Aldridge as ufa before the salary cap exploded and extended at a bargain before he became a ufa) or Masai Ujiri with the raptors (he got concessions in terms of contract term on deals recently signed by Lowry, Ibaka and Valanciunas and got Derozan to take less than the max). Aldridge is way more productive than both Horford and Hayward at a bargain salary. Same with the 4 raptors and Masai was easily able to trade the latter two in deals to land veteran allstars like Kawhi and Marc Gasol (who themselves are underpaid in the new cap era).

Ainge's specialty is in trades but not free agent signings and I question his draft record as pretty hit or miss like most GMs.


That's my point - Ainge is generally considered to be the top GM in the league, while all he's done is massively rip off the two worst GMS in the league at the time (neither of whom will ever have a job again).

He's a great opportunist and has been extremely fortunate, that's all.


:roll: :roll: You're all over the place.... Horford was an all star and a all NBA defender just last season. George's timeline wasn't the same either, he got injured in the summer, came back for the last six games of the season, then had another summer to rehab. Let me ask also how resigning Lowry to a max deal or Ibaka to twenty plus is noteworthy? Val at 16 x 3 is not that great either, he's an old school center that couldn't stay in at the end of games. I'm not going to list all of Ainge's accomplishments but trading a late first for IT, trading Jeff Green for what now looks like a good lottery pick from Memphis(also trading Green for Allen way back), trading a expiring Rondo for Crowder and a first are some other good trades outside the Nets and Tatum deals. He's also had some good late first round picks and under the radar signings.


Horford and Hayward are both overpaid regardless if they make allstar teams or not. Neither is even a tier two star that has made consecutive allstar teams. And Masai got major concessions in that he convinced both Lowry and Ibaka (who had the same agent who I think lost his license after some NCAA benefits scandal) to resign on a pair of three year term contracts in their prime. Yes neither is a superstar but players of less caliber than them were getting the full 4 year term with other teams and most who resigned with their existing teams like Conley and Gasol inked the full 5 year term with their bird rights. Lowry is not worth $30M/year but the fact he is an expiring contract next season with Ibaka and Gasol (who will likley opt in) gives raps mad flexibility whether Kawhi resigns or not. Ibaka in new cap era is playing like a $20m/yr player this season so that deal looks even better.
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Re: Danny Ainge Doesn't Think Celtics Necessarily Avoided Mistake With Rejected Justise Winslow Deal 

Post#11 » by Sam195 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:37 am

Patsfan1081 wrote:
Sam195 wrote:
Kurtz wrote:
That's my point - Ainge is generally considered to be the top GM in the league, while all he's done is massively rip off the two worst GMS in the league at the time (neither of whom will ever have a job again).

He's a great opportunist and has been extremely fortunate, that's all.


Billy King is one who is the other worst gm? Ainge clearly colluded with Kevin McHale to get KG in a Celtics uniform. Then again he has also hustled better GMs as well he sold off Rondo (who was an expiring contract) to Donnie Nelson and the Mavericks for a decent haul. He also traded Jeff Green (who he drafted) for Ray Allen and Glen Davis to a young Sam Presti which was clearly one of his best trades as Celtics GM alongside the Brooklyn Trade, the Kyrie trade and getting IT4 (on a bargain contract) before that from the suns for a low first round pick.


He's talking about BC but that's ridiculous. Everyone was killing Ainge for trading out of Fultz, even saying that he didn't get enough. If anything Ainge should get praised for his evaluation of Fultz and Tatum at the time. People also forget that KG was a expiring contract at the time and Al Jefferson was the best big man prospect out there. It als wasn't considered a heist at the time with the package Boston gave up, they were very fortunate to convince KG to resign. Same with Jaylen Brown, the concensous at the time was that either Dunn or Bender was the best available at 3. If he would have drafted one of those two people would be all over him now.


Lol the KG trade was conditional on the Boston side only if he signed a 3-year 60M extension (this was a huge concession on KG's part both in terms of contract length and salary). Had KG refused the extension then Boston wouldn't have offered so many assets to timberwolves because they would have been stuck having to resign KG to a huge contract as a ufa (I think 6 year term at higher max around $30M/season into his late 30s like what Kobe was getting paid his final years). Like Kobe he was a former MVP and franchise player. Or worse KG could have left at the end of the season as a ufa highly unlikely since they won a title but it would have forced celtics to resign him at any cost back then. If that happened the Brooklyn trade might never have happened down the road lol. I don't think even the nets would be willing to pay KG max money when his production was in steep decline (similar to how shaq got flipped to cavs and suns from the heat). KG also had his own no-trade clause and was holding out for a trade to stay in the wcf either to Phoenix or Lakers it was Mchale's influence and the Ray Allen trade getting done before he moved that sealed the deal.
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Re: Danny Ainge Doesn't Think Celtics Necessarily Avoided Mistake With Rejected Justise Winslow Deal 

Post#12 » by Vegeta10176 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:34 pm

Ainge has 1 title in 16 season there are 30 teams.. Its a well above average record.. but I could easily see 13 seasons go by and no other title for the Celtics in which case Ainge is simply breaking even at that point..
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Re: Danny Ainge Doesn't Think Celtics Necessarily Avoided Mistake With Rejected Justise Winslow Deal 

Post#13 » by The_Hater » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:48 am

Kurtz wrote:Luckiest GM in the world, this guy.


Meh. Great GM’s make their own luck, and Ainge is a great GM by just about every measure.
AthensBucks wrote:Lowry is done.
Nurse is below average at best.
Masai is overrated.
I dont get how so many people believe in the raptors,they have zero to chance to win it all.


April 14th, 2019.

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