Rich Paul Writes Op-Ed On New Restrictions From NCAA On Agents

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Rich Paul Writes Op-Ed On New Restrictions From NCAA On Agents 

Post#1 » by RealGM Wiretap » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:29 pm

Rich Paul wrote an op-ed with The Athletic about the so-called "Rich Paul Rule" that would prevent agents like Paul who didn't graduate from college from representing NCAA players who are testing the draft waters.


Paul first clarified that the media naming it after him is not accurate.


"The media is calling it “The Rich Paul Rule” that, while incredibly flattering, is not accurate," writes Paul. "It has no impact on me or the business of Klutch Sports Group. However, it does have a significant impact on people like me and the NCAA should be called out for it.


"To be honest, I have no idea whether the NCAA adopted the new rule specifically because of my work with Darius Bazley, as people have speculated, or if it is because they know there are more and more people like me fighting for their chance and challenging this antiquated system.


"The harmful consequences of this decision will ricochet onto others who are trying to break in. NCAA executives are once again preventing young people from less prestigious backgrounds, and often people of color, from working in the system they continue to control.  In this case, the people being locked out are kids who aspire to be an agent and work in the NBA and do not have the resources, opportunity, or desire to get a four-year degree.


"I actually support requiring three years of experience before representing a kid testing the market. I can even get behind passing a test. However, requiring a four-year degree accomplishes only one thing — systematically excluding those who come from a world where college is unrealistic."

Via RealGM Staff Report

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Re: Rich Paul Writes Op-Ed On New Restrictions From NCAA On Agents 

Post#2 » by Mak » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:58 pm

great... what about other Lebron's friends? what are their thoughts on this?
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Re: Rich Paul Writes Op-Ed On New Restrictions From NCAA On Agents 

Post#3 » by 12footrim » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:37 pm

He should just finish his degree online and respect the rules. Seriously society doesn't let people without degree's teach or coach junior high kids and this is a position of a guy advising 18 year olds on multi million dollar decisions. I see the value in having some minimum standards in place to protect some people from themselves and leachers on. There is a big difference in a can't miss prospect like Lebron and almost everyone else that has to figure this decision out.
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Re: Rich Paul Writes Op-Ed On New Restrictions From NCAA On Agents 

Post#4 » by DreamTeam09 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:44 pm

12footrim wrote:He should just finish his degree online and respect the rules. Seriously society doesn't let people without degree's teach or coach junior high kids and this is a position of a guy advising 18 year olds on multi million dollar decisions. I see the value in having some minimum standards in place to protect some people from themselves and leachers on. There is a big difference in a can't miss prospect like Lebron and almost everyone else that has to figure this decision out.


A 4yr degree shouldn't be a prerequisite to represent someone, you do not need a degree to represent yourself in a court of law, so why do I need one to navigate the draft process or to sign deals.

Plenty of fortune 500 companies are comprised of college dropouts, entertainers and entrepreneurs as well
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Re: Rich Paul Writes Op-Ed On New Restrictions From NCAA On Agents 

Post#5 » by Risk Addict » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:57 pm

He makes great points. Just have a proficiency exam to prove they are not a hack.... like almost every other profession.
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Re: Rich Paul Writes Op-Ed On New Restrictions From NCAA On Agents 

Post#6 » by League Circles » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:08 pm

I wonder if he doesn't realize that having a degree gives you a perspective that should be of value in advising someone whether or not to continue their degree pursuit, or if he's been disingenuous.
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Re: Rich Paul Writes Op-Ed On New Restrictions From NCAA On Agents 

Post#7 » by Revenged25 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:26 pm

League Circles wrote:I wonder if he doesn't realize that having a degree gives you a perspective that should be of value in advising someone whether or not to continue their degree pursuit, or if he's been disingenuous.


Sounds like the kid would've preferred going pro right out of HS instead of being forced into the one and done system with college basketball. Without Rich Paul kid probably would've went overseas to play for the year prior to this years draft and maybe hurt his stock more by not getting minutes over there as is often the case for younger players. I mean the kid got an internship and learned valuable business skills, got a shoe deal to cover his expenses, and probably still trained as though he was preparing for the draft anyways. Doesn't seem like that much of a loss for the kid, if anything probably going to help set him up better in the future if Basketball doesn't work out for him as he can still go college using the money from his NBA contract and shoe deal.
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Re: Rich Paul Writes Op-Ed On New Restrictions From NCAA On Agents 

Post#8 » by League Circles » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:38 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
League Circles wrote:I wonder if he doesn't realize that having a degree gives you a perspective that should be of value in advising someone whether or not to continue their degree pursuit, or if he's been disingenuous.


Sounds like the kid would've preferred going pro right out of HS instead of being forced into the one and done system with college basketball. Without Rich Paul kid probably would've went overseas to play for the year prior to this years draft and maybe hurt his stock more by not getting minutes over there as is often the case for younger players. I mean the kid got an internship and learned valuable business skills, got a shoe deal to cover his expenses, and probably still trained as though he was preparing for the draft anyways. Doesn't seem like that much of a loss for the kid, if anything probably going to help set him up better in the future if Basketball doesn't work out for him as he can still go college using the money from his NBA contract and shoe deal.

Sure. Not clear how that relates to what I said though.

And FWIW, no one is remotely forced into the ncaa. They can play G league andmake 120k plus endorsements, or go overseas, or do whatever.

The notion is that people without degrees have a fundamental inability to grasp the full value of having that degree, and thus have a fundamental inability to provide the most balanced guidance about whether or not someone should continue to pursue that degree.

If I'm not mistaken, this new rule doesn't really limit players in any way, just agents. The NCAA simply cannot prioritize agent career arcs.
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Re: Rich Paul Writes Op-Ed On New Restrictions From NCAA On Agents 

Post#9 » by captain green » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:50 pm

**** Rich Paul. I get he is mad but he brought this on his self. You can't be above the game and expect no reaction. Is it the proper action no but when has the ncaa ever been right? Agents shouldn't be able to do what he has done.
We always talk about there’s A-to-Z… really, there’s A-to-G or -E,’” Ainge told Celtics.com of a team’s typical offseason agenda. “This year, there’s definitely A-to-Z.” : danny ainge
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Re: Rich Paul Writes Op-Ed On New Restrictions From NCAA On Agents 

Post#10 » by Revenged25 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:07 pm

League Circles wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
League Circles wrote:I wonder if he doesn't realize that having a degree gives you a perspective that should be of value in advising someone whether or not to continue their degree pursuit, or if he's been disingenuous.


Sounds like the kid would've preferred going pro right out of HS instead of being forced into the one and done system with college basketball. Without Rich Paul kid probably would've went overseas to play for the year prior to this years draft and maybe hurt his stock more by not getting minutes over there as is often the case for younger players. I mean the kid got an internship and learned valuable business skills, got a shoe deal to cover his expenses, and probably still trained as though he was preparing for the draft anyways. Doesn't seem like that much of a loss for the kid, if anything probably going to help set him up better in the future if Basketball doesn't work out for him as he can still go college using the money from his NBA contract and shoe deal.

Sure. Not clear how that relates to what I said though.

And FWIW, no one is remotely forced into the ncaa. They can play G league andmake 120k plus endorsements, or go overseas, or do whatever.

The notion is that people without degrees have a fundamental inability to grasp the full value of having that degree, and thus have a fundamental inability to provide the most balanced guidance about whether or not someone should continue to pursue that degree.

If I'm not mistaken, this new rule doesn't really limit players in any way, just agents. The NCAA simply cannot prioritize agent career arcs.


I was an Army Recruiter without a degree. I have a degree now but everything I said then would still be the same today, if you know what you want to do with your life and what you want to study, head to college, if you have any doubts then take some time and get life experience before you waste your time and money changing majors 3-4 times before you figure out what you want to do. Also the value of a degree varies drastically based on major, location, willingness to relocate etc. Most basketball players, especially those likely to be one and done, have their degrees as undeclared, business, or communications. Well that internship provided more useable experience and knowledge than he would've gotten in their first 2 years of college. Most curriculum don't even hit your major until your 3rd or 4th year as you are filling your first two years with all the general education requirements.

Also I'm with Rich Paul on the fact that requiring a 4 year degree is BS. 3 years of experience as a working agent and passing their skills test should be all that's needed, or even if you want to make the degree matter in this scenario, make it 4 year degree + 3 years experience -OR- 5 years experience. Requires them to have more experience to make up for the lack of a college degree, obviously the skill test is still a requirement regardless.
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Re: Rich Paul Writes Op-Ed On New Restrictions From NCAA On Agents 

Post#11 » by dhsilv2 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:30 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
League Circles wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
Sounds like the kid would've preferred going pro right out of HS instead of being forced into the one and done system with college basketball. Without Rich Paul kid probably would've went overseas to play for the year prior to this years draft and maybe hurt his stock more by not getting minutes over there as is often the case for younger players. I mean the kid got an internship and learned valuable business skills, got a shoe deal to cover his expenses, and probably still trained as though he was preparing for the draft anyways. Doesn't seem like that much of a loss for the kid, if anything probably going to help set him up better in the future if Basketball doesn't work out for him as he can still go college using the money from his NBA contract and shoe deal.

Sure. Not clear how that relates to what I said though.

And FWIW, no one is remotely forced into the ncaa. They can play G league andmake 120k plus endorsements, or go overseas, or do whatever.

The notion is that people without degrees have a fundamental inability to grasp the full value of having that degree, and thus have a fundamental inability to provide the most balanced guidance about whether or not someone should continue to pursue that degree.

If I'm not mistaken, this new rule doesn't really limit players in any way, just agents. The NCAA simply cannot prioritize agent career arcs.


I was an Army Recruiter without a degree. I have a degree now but everything I said then would still be the same today, if you know what you want to do with your life and what you want to study, head to college, if you have any doubts then take some time and get life experience before you waste your time and money changing majors 3-4 times before you figure out what you want to do. Also the value of a degree varies drastically based on major, location, willingness to relocate etc. Most basketball players, especially those likely to be one and done, have their degrees as undeclared, business, or communications. Well that internship provided more useable experience and knowledge than he would've gotten in their first 2 years of college. Most curriculum don't even hit your major until your 3rd or 4th year as you are filling your first two years with all the general education requirements.

Also I'm with Rich Paul on the fact that requiring a 4 year degree is BS. 3 years of experience as a working agent and passing their skills test should be all that's needed, or even if you want to make the degree matter in this scenario, make it 4 year degree + 3 years experience -OR- 5 years experience. Requires them to have more experience to make up for the lack of a college degree, obviously the skill test is still a requirement regardless.


People would be much off just getting any degree whatsoever. Just make sure your took plenty of math (yes lots of calculus), took a foreign language (I know it sucks), and did at bit of science (organic chemistry and the likes). From there go work, figure out what you want, and then go get a masters. Alternatively, you might find you don't want to do the college routine and you go into another field. The debt sucks, but the degree will leave doors open and there's massive value in that.

The whole changing majors thing is almost always about people avoiding taking hard classes or incorrectly thinking that the type of degree will really matter long term (it really doesn't).
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Re: Rich Paul Writes Op-Ed On New Restrictions From NCAA On Agents 

Post#12 » by 12footrim » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:49 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:
12footrim wrote:He should just finish his degree online and respect the rules. Seriously society doesn't let people without degree's teach or coach junior high kids and this is a position of a guy advising 18 year olds on multi million dollar decisions. I see the value in having some minimum standards in place to protect some people from themselves and leachers on. There is a big difference in a can't miss prospect like Lebron and almost everyone else that has to figure this decision out.


A 4yr degree shouldn't be a prerequisite to represent someone, you do not need a degree to represent yourself in a court of law, so why do I need one to navigate the draft process or to sign deals.

Plenty of fortune 500 companies are comprised of college dropouts, entertainers and entrepreneurs as well


Yeah, you can represent yourself sure and there are few people that stupid to take that option when society had decided everyone must be afforded a licensed attorney. For every Zuckerberg and Gates that dropped out of Harvard or wherever how many failures are there? Just about anyone can get get a degree from somewhere and if you can't I sure wouldn't want you involved in a 10+ million dollar deal, it's really not that hard and having this as the most basic minimum I think would keep a lot of the leachers and handlers in an already shady buisness like basketball out.

I can understand the thought process on protecting 18 year olds from themselves and opportunistic adults around them but I honestly don't care either way. I'm generally for more personal freedom so if you want your high school buddy or the dude down the street with the high school degree to represent you in a multi million dollar deal. Go for it I guess but I think you are pretty dumb.
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Re: Rich Paul Writes Op-Ed On New Restrictions From NCAA On Agents 

Post#13 » by BigTex » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:31 pm

Risk Addict wrote:He makes great points. Just have a proficiency exam to prove they are not a hack.... like almost every other profession.


What professions have exams that you can take without the requisite education? Lawyer, doctor, architect, nurse, and pharmacist are among the jobs that I can think of just off the top of my head where you have educational requirements to take an exam. Even non-professional jobs like pilot have educational requirements before you can take a test.
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Re: Rich Paul Writes Op-Ed On New Restrictions From NCAA On Agents 

Post#14 » by DreamTeam09 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:20 pm

12footrim wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:
12footrim wrote:He should just finish his degree online and respect the rules. Seriously society doesn't let people without degree's teach or coach junior high kids and this is a position of a guy advising 18 year olds on multi million dollar decisions. I see the value in having some minimum standards in place to protect some people from themselves and leachers on. There is a big difference in a can't miss prospect like Lebron and almost everyone else that has to figure this decision out.


A 4yr degree shouldn't be a prerequisite to represent someone, you do not need a degree to represent yourself in a court of law, so why do I need one to navigate the draft process or to sign deals.

Plenty of fortune 500 companies are comprised of college dropouts, entertainers and entrepreneurs as well


Yeah, you can represent yourself sure and there are few people that stupid to take that option when society had decided everyone must be afforded a licensed attorney. For every Zuckerberg and Gates that dropped out of Harvard or wherever how many failures are there? Just about anyone can get get a degree from somewhere and if you can't I sure wouldn't want you involved in a 10+ million dollar deal, it's really not that hard and having this as the most basic minimum I think would keep a lot of the leachers and handlers in an already shady buisness like basketball out.

I can understand the thought process on protecting 18 year olds from themselves and opportunistic adults around them but I honestly don't care either way. I'm generally for more personal freedom so if you want your high school buddy or the dude down the street with the high school degree to represent you in a multi million dollar deal. Go for it I guess but I think you are pretty dumb.


But you have multiple examples of this happening and ending up amazing for the parties involved. Rich Paul and Uncle Dennis are like the two biggest/most recognized agents right now and neither of them have a 4yr BA. Well to be fair i'm not sure if uncle dennis does or does not, i'm willing to bet he doesn't in the field of sports representation.

I can also name plenty of criminals who beat their fed cases representing themselves after their licensed attorney was conspiring with the DA or they were just **** at their jobs.

This notion that because you completed a degree makes you the utmost of qualified in that profession is nonsense.

I am also an advocate for higher education but that doesn't mean that society should put down ppl for not continuing their education.
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Re: Rich Paul Writes Op-Ed On New Restrictions From NCAA On Agents 

Post#15 » by 12footrim » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:40 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:
But you have multiple examples of this happening and ending up amazing for the parties involved. Rich Paul and Uncle Dennis are like the two biggest/most recognized agents right now and neither of them have a 4yr BA. Well to be fair i'm not sure if uncle dennis does or does not, i'm willing to bet he doesn't in the field of sports representation.


Lebron and Kawhi have all kinds of leverage, a bum on the street could get them super maxes and signed to any team they wanted to go to. I don't think two of the best players that ever lived are very good example. We are talking about more marginal prospects that really need to make solid draft entrance decisions and sign more marginal contracts that need great advice and I think advice clear of people that probably have a bigger interest in them signing sooner like a friend or relative would. Rich Paul paid his dues working like a decade for Leon Rose at CAA, I don't think that's the same scenerio as a guy coming straight off the street in the future.

DreamTeam09 wrote: can also name plenty of criminals who beat their fed cases representing themselves after their licensed attorney was conspiring with the DA or they were just **** at their jobs.


"Plenty". I bet the percentages of convictions are far worse if idiots try to represent themselves in serious crimes. I read in civil suits with a lawyer you have a 90% success rate and without 50%.
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Re: Rich Paul Writes Op-Ed On New Restrictions From NCAA On Agents 

Post#16 » by Killboard » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:41 pm

I dont like Paul, but amen to that.
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Re: Rich Paul Writes Op-Ed On New Restrictions From NCAA On Agents 

Post#17 » by DreamTeam09 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:43 pm

12footrim wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:
But you have multiple examples of this happening and ending up amazing for the parties involved. Rich Paul and Uncle Dennis are like the two biggest/most recognized agents right now and neither of them have a 4yr BA. Well to be fair i'm not sure if uncle dennis does or does not, i'm willing to bet he doesn't in the field of sports representation.


Lebron and Kawhi have all kinds of leverage, a bum on the street could get them super maxes and signed to any team they wanted to go to. I don't think two of the best players that ever lived are very good example. We are talking about more marginal prospects that really need to make solid draft entrance decisions and sign more marginal contracts that need great advice and I think advice clear of people that probably have a bigger interest in them signing sooner like a friend or relative would. Rich Paul paid his dues working like a decade for Leon Rose at CAA, I don't think that's the same scenerio as a guy coming straight off the street in the future.

DreamTeam09 wrote: can also name plenty of criminals who beat their fed cases representing themselves after their licensed attorney was conspiring with the DA or they were just **** at their jobs.


"Plenty". I bet the percentages of convictions are far worse if idiots try to represent themselves in serious crimes. I read in civil suits with a lawyer you have a 90% success rate and without 50%.


I agree that experience is a way better life lesson and knowledge accumulator than institutions are.
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Re: Rich Paul Writes Op-Ed On New Restrictions From NCAA On Agents 

Post#19 » by JonFromVA » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:02 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
League Circles wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
Sounds like the kid would've preferred going pro right out of HS instead of being forced into the one and done system with college basketball. Without Rich Paul kid probably would've went overseas to play for the year prior to this years draft and maybe hurt his stock more by not getting minutes over there as is often the case for younger players. I mean the kid got an internship and learned valuable business skills, got a shoe deal to cover his expenses, and probably still trained as though he was preparing for the draft anyways. Doesn't seem like that much of a loss for the kid, if anything probably going to help set him up better in the future if Basketball doesn't work out for him as he can still go college using the money from his NBA contract and shoe deal.

Sure. Not clear how that relates to what I said though.

And FWIW, no one is remotely forced into the ncaa. They can play G league andmake 120k plus endorsements, or go overseas, or do whatever.

The notion is that people without degrees have a fundamental inability to grasp the full value of having that degree, and thus have a fundamental inability to provide the most balanced guidance about whether or not someone should continue to pursue that degree.

If I'm not mistaken, this new rule doesn't really limit players in any way, just agents. The NCAA simply cannot prioritize agent career arcs.


I was an Army Recruiter without a degree. I have a degree now but everything I said then would still be the same today, if you know what you want to do with your life and what you want to study, head to college, if you have any doubts then take some time and get life experience before you waste your time and money changing majors 3-4 times before you figure out what you want to do. Also the value of a degree varies drastically based on major, location, willingness to relocate etc. Most basketball players, especially those likely to be one and done, have their degrees as undeclared, business, or communications. Well that internship provided more useable experience and knowledge than he would've gotten in their first 2 years of college. Most curriculum don't even hit your major until your 3rd or 4th year as you are filling your first two years with all the general education requirements.

Also I'm with Rich Paul on the fact that requiring a 4 year degree is BS. 3 years of experience as a working agent and passing their skills test should be all that's needed, or even if you want to make the degree matter in this scenario, make it 4 year degree + 3 years experience -OR- 5 years experience. Requires them to have more experience to make up for the lack of a college degree, obviously the skill test is still a requirement regardless.


A degree shows you have the ability to focus, think, and get serious about doing something which is not easy (for most).

If you want to lean how to do a job, there are schools specifically for that purpose; but the University system is dedicated to teaching students how to learn and hopefully help them grow up some along the way.

It's for those reasons and more that Universities are totally unconcerned about uncommitted students.

Personally a 4-year degree seems like a pretty low bar for an agent to me which is why they probably included the 3 years of experience clause as well.

But let's face it ... the NCAA isn't attacking Rich Paul, they're trying to address street agents who just want to exploit these players for money. Tacking on some requirements won't keep every slimeball away, but short of some more direct means, it's a start.
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Re: Rich Paul Writes Op-Ed On New Restrictions From NCAA On Agents 

Post#20 » by alienpick » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:11 pm

Universities always push this narrative that people with random 4 year degrees are more special than those without. Remember, it’s the product they sell and in reality a university is just a business hiding under the guise of a noble contribution to society. Especially in the non-science related degrees.

Anyone with a devotion to learn a certain career and has gained the experience always has the advantage over the university kid who just graduated. The university kid only has the experience shared by their verbally by their teachers and non of their own. (The exception to this any science degree)

I agree with Rich Paul that proven experience (and skill) in sports management should be valued over a bought piece of paper. Unfortunately the NCAA is a university run league and they are going to try and protect their business by pushing the narrative that their product (a degree) is a necessity in life and business. This rule is to protect their business and the financial health of their institutions and nothing more.

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