HotelVitale wrote: the13thjoker wrote:
Vegeta10176 wrote: Jordan threatened to leave the Bulls unless they put a team around him.. Jordan had players he wanted they didn't listen because as we know Jordan is a terrible GM.. The Bulls assembled stacked teams for Jordan had they not done that he would of left.. This BS one team crap is a lie Kobe was going to leave the Lakers.. If they put a good team around you ppl tend to stay but if your team is in say not one of the three biggest markets it's much harder to make a contender..
Yeah Kobe did but MJ didn't - even Jerry Krause (who has every reason to throw MJ under the bus considering their icy relationship) said that MJ never asked for a player to be traded, or signed or drafted during the dynasty years. He just showed up and tried to win with what he had and worked on his own game. MJ was 28 when he won his first championship. Bulls were the trash of the league and weren't "stacked" they had players who all bought into the coach system of the triangle and most of the players we know from the Bulls, we know because of Jordan.
Wow, that's an extraordinarily misinformed take on MJ. He may have never demanded a trade but he constantly bugged Krause and tried to leverage his power to get changes he wanted. There is no history of Jordan in which that's not the main story of how he interacted with management.
Also, do you really not know that the Bulls added Scottie Pippen and then Horace Grant after Jordan came on? Then Bill Cartwright, who was a multiple all-star player. The Bulls were bad when they got Jordan but then added a very strong team around him, literally no one doesn't agree with that assessment, it's like saying Lebron won his championships by himself. The Bulls with Jordan but without Pippen and others lost in the 1st rd of the playoffs three times, then when they added the other guys they went to the 2nd round in Jordan's 4th year and to the conference finals in Jordan's 5th and 6th years. (Also only after that did they add Phil Jackson and 'buy into the triangle'--after they were already one of the league's top teams.) Yes Jordan was the best player on the team but saying the team was trash is outrageously ignorant, as is the idea that Jordan just quietly toiled away and played the good soldier on a bad team.
True - I'm not meaning to say the Bulls team was trash when they won championships. Reading back at my first comment, it reads that way but I mean to say they WERE trash when the Bulls drafted Jordan and most of the players they added leading up to the championship years were not star players and there's no two ways around that. No one wanted to play with the Bulls in Jordan's first few years. I know Scottie Pippen came and I know Horace Grant came but stop with the fake stats. Bill Cartwright was an All Star once in 1980. He averaged 12 and 7 for the Bulls as starter during his stay (rounded up for appearance's sake). The Bulls getting Rodman at the age of 34 was a gamble as well. If Jackson wasn't as understanding and play orientated as he was - Rodman would have been a horrible train wreck instead of the slow burn car crash that he was.
Again, if MJ was constantly demanding players, why wouldn't Jerry Krause just say it? And if MJ had so much power, why was he leaving in 98 instead of forcing management to keep the team together to go again?
Scottie Pippen has said that the Bulls were kept from winning more championships because of decisions made by the management. Doesn't sound like management was in MJ's pocket at all. In fact, the poor relationship between Krause and MJ very early on his career supports the fact that they didn't see eye to eye and Krause didn't care what MJ had to say if he indeed said anything.
As for Jordan's 4th year making the semi-finals the 2nd highest scorer on the team was Sam Vincent - 13 pts.
Jordan's 5th year making the conference finals - 2nd highest scorer was Scottie Pippen - 14pts
Jordan's 6th year making the conference finals- Scottie Pippen - 16 pts.
Phil Jackson moved into the coaching role because management saw that the triangle was able to allow the players on the team who couldn't do what Jordan was doing to be involved and create shots for them but even then outside of Scottie (17 pts) and Grant (16 pts) no one was scoring double digits for them and it's really not until 1992 that Scottie Pippen is playing like a true number 2.