Bucks Still Considered Favorites For Giannis Antetokounmpo In 2021

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Bucks Still Considered Favorites For Giannis Antetokounmpo In 2021 

Post#1 » by RealGM Wiretap » Wed Sep 9, 2020 6:39 pm

Giannis Antetokounmpo has gone on record to say he won't request a trade this offseason and now league sources tell Kevin O'Connor of The Ringer they "consider the Bucks the clear favorite for Giannis in 2021."


The Bucks have also been adamant they won't consider trading Antetokounmpo this offseason.


Antetokounmpo can sign a supermax extension this offseason.


If Antetokounmpo becomes available, the Miami Heat, Golden State Warriors, Dallas Mavericks, Toronto Raptors and Los Angeles Clippers have been mentioned as teams expected to pursue him.

Via Kevin O'Connor/The Ringer

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Re: Bucks Still Considered Favorites For Giannis Antetokounmpo In 2021 

Post#2 » by Dennis 37 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 9:13 pm

If there was a trade, the team he was going to would be weaker than if he just signed there as a FA. If he doesnt sign the supermax before whatever date he has the option to do so, Bucks will decide if he will be traded. There really is no request involved.
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Re: Bucks Still Considered Favorites For Giannis Antetokounmpo In 2021 

Post#3 » by Pennebaker » Wed Sep 9, 2020 10:55 pm

Shouldn't the Bucks want to trade him?

He may have some awards but he's never had dominating playoff performances.

People like to compare him to LeBron, but before LeBron won his first MVP he had already willed his team to the Finals and had several legendary playoff performances. Giannis doesn't have a resume like that, so there's not the same confidence in his ability.

If the Bucks resign him do they think he's going to all of a sudden turn into that kind of player?

I'd probably trade him.
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Re: Bucks Still Considered Favorites For Giannis Antetokounmpo In 2021 

Post#4 » by BlueHeat » Wed Sep 9, 2020 11:35 pm

If this dude stays with Milwaulkee, he's a moron. He needs a culture that will bring out the best in him. That isn't with the bucks.
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Re: Bucks Still Considered Favorites For Giannis Antetokounmpo In 2021 

Post#5 » by hyberx » Wed Sep 9, 2020 11:52 pm

No way Bucks are trading him, for a small market team they won't let go of a big-name player like Giannis no matter what, even if it makes no sense. It would only happen if Giannis wants out, yet he said he doesn't.

The question is why would Ginanis stay, other than for the super max. Bringing in 36 year old Chris Paul won't get them anywhere. Middleton, Bledsoe, Hill, Lopez are all locked in for years. They are basically coming back with the same team next season.
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Re: Bucks Still Considered Favorites For Giannis Antetokounmpo In 2021 

Post#6 » by dice » Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:37 am

Dennis 37 wrote:If there was a trade, the team he was going to would be weaker than if he just signed there as a FA. If he doesnt sign the supermax before whatever date he has the option to do so, Bucks will decide if he will be traded. There really is no request involved.

if a team does not have cap space to sign him, they will have to trade for him. which is what the heat did with jimmy butler
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Re: Bucks Still Considered Favorites For Giannis Antetokounmpo In 2021 

Post#7 » by dice » Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:40 am

BlueHeat wrote:If this dude stays with Milwaulkee, he's a moron. He needs a culture that will bring out the best in him. That isn't with the bucks.

how in the world is back-to-back MVPs not the best of him?
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Re: Bucks Still Considered Favorites For Giannis Antetokounmpo In 2021 

Post#8 » by dice » Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:47 am

Pennebaker wrote:Shouldn't the Bucks want to trade him?

He may have some awards but he's never had dominating playoff performances.

People like to compare him to LeBron, but before LeBron won his first MVP he had already willed his team to the Finals and had several legendary playoff performances. Giannis doesn't have a resume like that, so there's not the same confidence in his ability.

If the Bucks resign him do they think he's going to all of a sudden turn into that kind of player?

I'd probably trade him.

this year:

35/16/7 on 61%ts reg season
31/16/7 on 61%ts postseason

that's despite injury in the last round. pretty damn dominant
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Re: Bucks Still Considered Favorites For Giannis Antetokounmpo In 2021 

Post#9 » by Matches Malone » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:07 pm

Pennebaker wrote:Shouldn't the Bucks want to trade him?

He may have some awards but he's never had dominating playoff performances.

People like to compare him to LeBron, but before LeBron won his first MVP he had already willed his team to the Finals and had several legendary playoff performances. Giannis doesn't have a resume like that, so there's not the same confidence in his ability.

If the Bucks resign him do they think he's going to all of a sudden turn into that kind of player?

I'd probably trade him.


If he doesn't re-sign then you keep him for his last year and hope you can win a title. Players like Giannis don't grow on trees and while it may seem "fair" to get something in return before he leaves, nothing the Bucks could get back in a trade will equal his talent.

I'm not sure why people ever compared him to LeBron. He's not that. He's a modern-day Shaq that needs a guard who can create his own shot, so Giannis doesn't need to have an entire team wall him off.

I think the person who has failed more than Giannis has been Bud. Instead of trying to stretch Giannis out, he should have kept him closer to the basket and have him work on his post moves. I don't mind Giannis taking 3's, but when he does it so early in the shot clock, that's when I take issue.
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Re: Bucks Still Considered Favorites For Giannis Antetokounmpo In 2021 

Post#10 » by puja21 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:34 pm

Dennis 37 wrote:If there was a trade, the team he was going to would be weaker than if he just signed there as a FA. If he doesnt sign the supermax before whatever date he has the option to do so, Bucks will decide if he will be traded. There really is no request involved.


Well that's just completely wrong...

If you're in Ontario, then you probably watched Leonard's saga fold out firsthand -- to the Raptors' benefit. He wanted a trade and forced the Spurs to trade him. Plus, the team suffered in the interim by not acquiescing sooner and with reduced return; they surely could've gotten the same or better value from LA that OKC got for George. Instead San Antonio cut off its nose to spite the face.

As noted, Paul George forced a trade from OKC to join Leonard in LA... and that was less than a year after forcing a trade from Indiana. Give him credit for not submarining the Thunder by going public before they were able to get all that Clippers value, but he was absolutely in control of his destination. They weren't going to let George walk for nothing and no one else was trading for him if he says he wants out with a year left and adds "Clippers or bust." The team is effectively screwed at recouping anything close to full value.

Kyrie Irving forced Cleveland to trade him to Boston.

Chris Paul forced a trade from New Orleans... to *both* LA teams :wink:

Kevin Love to Cleveland

Do teams sometimes choose to trade players?
Sure. Blake Griffin and Deron Williams (still "player-driven" though, just preemptive) both come to mind.

But history has shown the players have complete control. The Sixers gave Tobias Harris one of the worst contracts in the league in hopes of luring Butler to stay. Cavs did the same with Tristan Thompson for Lebron.

Bucks will have to do whatever Giannis chooses to force them to do, same as any other team and star player.
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Re: Bucks Still Considered Favorites For Giannis Antetokounmpo In 2021 

Post#11 » by Dennis 37 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:49 pm

puja21 wrote:
Dennis 37 wrote:If there was a trade, the team he was going to would be weaker than if he just signed there as a FA. If he doesnt sign the supermax before whatever date he has the option to do so, Bucks will decide if he will be traded. There really is no request involved.


Well that's just completely wrong...

If you're in Ontario, then you probably watched Leonard's saga fold out firsthand -- to the Raptors' benefit. He wanted a trade and forced the Spurs to trade him. Plus, the team suffered in the interim by not acquiescing sooner and with reduced return; they surely could've gotten the same or better value from LA that OKC got for George. Instead San Antonio cut off its nose to spite the face.

As noted, Paul George forced a trade from OKC to join Leonard in LA... and that was less than a year after forcing a trade from Indiana. Give him credit for not submarining the Thunder by going public before they were able to get all that Clippers value, but he was absolutely in control of his destination. They weren't going to let George walk for nothing and no one else was trading for him if he says he wants out with a year left and adds "Clippers or bust." The team is effectively screwed at recouping anything close to full value.

Kyrie Irving forced Cleveland to trade him to Boston.

Chris Paul forced a trade from New Orleans... to *both* LA teams :wink:

Kevin Love to Cleveland

Do teams sometimes choose to trade players?
Sure. Blake Griffin and Deron Williams (still "player-driven" though, just preemptive) both come to mind.

But history has shown the players have complete control. The Sixers gave Tobias Harris one of the worst contracts in the league in hopes of luring Butler to stay. Cavs did the same with Tristan Thompson for Lebron.

Bucks will have to do whatever Giannis chooses to force them to do, same as any other team and star player.


Kawhi simply wanted to go home, and there were other issues there between he and his teammates. Kawhi is on a whole other layer of talent. He can take a depleted team places. He can get other stars to demand trades to join him. Does Giannis have that same draw?

I'm not saying that Giannis doesn't control his destiny, but if his preference is to go to a team, having cap space, it makes no sense for him to request a trade. If Kawhi was a free agent a year earlier, at the end of his time on the Spurs, he wouldn't have asked for a trade, he would simply have waited until the season ended and went there as a free agent as he did at the end of his time in Toronto. Did he ask for a trade while he was in Toronto?
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Re: Bucks Still Considered Favorites For Giannis Antetokounmpo In 2021 

Post#12 » by puja21 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:13 pm

Dennis 37 wrote:Kawhi simply wanted to go home, and there were other issues there between he and his teammates. Kawhi is on a whole other layer of talent. He can take a depleted team places. He can get other stars to demand trades to join him. Does Giannis have that same draw?

What kind of measuring stick is this?
Kahwi got one player to join him -- Russell Westbrook (not even a superstar anymore) got the same guy to force a trade to join him.
Similarly, is Klay Thompson a superstar because he clicked with KD at the Hamptons meeting?

Giannis is about to become a back-to-back MVP and DPOY in the same season.
Is he a shooter like Kawhi? No.
But of course he's on the same level of superstardom as Leonard, Lebron, KD, etc...

Dennis 37 wrote: I'm not saying that Giannis doesn't control his destiny

Still not sure how this:
Dennis 37 wrote:Bucks will decide if he will be traded

... can be misconstrued to mean Giannis controls his destiny...

Dennis 37 wrote: If Kawhi was a free agent a year earlier, at the end of his time on the Spurs, he wouldn't have asked for a trade, he would simply have waited until the season ended and went there as a free agent as he did at the end of his time in Toronto. Did he ask for a trade while he was in Toronto?

There is no evidence of this and it doesn't happen.
-Kristaps forced a trade to Dallas with 5 mos until his RFA/QU date.
-Butler forced the trade to Philly with <1 year left on his deal.
-Love forced the trade to Cleveland with <1 year left on his deal.
-Howard forced his trade to LA with <1 year left on his deal.
-Carmelo Anthony was literally 6 mos from UFA when he forced a trade, depleting his teams resources and signing the $64M extension.

The only guys who waited for UFA already successfully demanded trades to winning teams in the hunt (Leonard + Irving).
This is a weird hill to die on.
Clearly, Giannis is in control of what happens.
This is the landscape for stars in today's NBA.
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Re: Bucks Still Considered Favorites For Giannis Antetokounmpo In 2021 

Post#13 » by Dennis 37 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:34 pm

puja21 wrote:
Dennis 37 wrote: I'm not saying that Giannis doesn't control his destiny

Still not sure how this:
Dennis 37 wrote:Bucks will decide if he will be traded

... can be misconstrued to mean Giannis controls his destiny...


It's not that hard.

1. Giannis is not the GM. He cannot make a trade go through unless the Bucks decide it is what is best under the circumstances. Giannis can say, "I want a trade," and Bucks can say, "Um, no."

2. The Bucks might decide to trade him. He has no control over where he goes, just like Kawhi ended up in Toronto. He does not have the power to say, "I'm not going to ________," without breaking his contractual obligations.

3. Giannis has the power to decide if he re-signs with the Bucks, or signs with a team he is traded to. Or plays out the season with the team to which he was traded, signs there, or signs with a new team.

Therefore, only the Bucks have the power to decide if he is traded, and at the end of the day, in free agency, Giannis will control his destiny. They are not simultaneous events.
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Re: Bucks Still Considered Favorites For Giannis Antetokounmpo In 2021 

Post#14 » by puja21 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:42 pm

Dennis 37 wrote:
puja21 wrote:
Dennis 37 wrote: I'm not saying that Giannis doesn't control his destiny

Still not sure how this:
Dennis 37 wrote:Bucks will decide if he will be traded

... can be misconstrued to mean Giannis controls his destiny...


It's not that hard.

1. Giannis is not the GM. He cannot make a trade go through unless the Bucks decide it is what is best under the circumstances. Giannis can say, "I want a trade," and Bucks can say, "Um, no."

2. The Bucks might decide to trade him. He has no control over where he goes, just like Kawhi ended up in Toronto. He does not have the power to say, "I'm not going to ________," without breaking his contractual obligations.

3. Giannis has the power to decide if he re-signs with the Bucks, or signs with a team he is traded to. Or plays out the season with the team to which he was traded, signs there, or signs with a new team.

Therefore, only the Bucks have the power to decide if he is traded, and at the end of the day, in free agency, Giannis will control his destiny. They are not simultaneous events.


The Bucks have the power to submarine their franchise yes.

You're being naive or hopeful that reality is more wholesome. Leonard absolutely could have publicly said I will only re-sign with an LA team and destroyed his value. He could even have refused to report. Players can violate obligations -- it almost never comes to that because franchises very often behave in a way that's economically rational.

Elite players are the only very rare commodity that matters in NBA economics.

Keep your head in the sand though
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Re: Bucks Still Considered Favorites For Giannis Antetokounmpo In 2021 

Post#15 » by Dennis 37 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:54 pm

puja21 wrote:
Dennis 37 wrote:
puja21 wrote:
Still not sure how this:

... can be misconstrued to mean Giannis controls his destiny...


It's not that hard.

1. Giannis is not the GM. He cannot make a trade go through unless the Bucks decide it is what is best under the circumstances. Giannis can say, "I want a trade," and Bucks can say, "Um, no."

2. The Bucks might decide to trade him. He has no control over where he goes, just like Kawhi ended up in Toronto. He does not have the power to say, "I'm not going to ________," without breaking his contractual obligations.

3. Giannis has the power to decide if he re-signs with the Bucks, or signs with a team he is traded to. Or plays out the season with the team to which he was traded, signs there, or signs with a new team.

Therefore, only the Bucks have the power to decide if he is traded, and at the end of the day, in free agency, Giannis will control his destiny. They are not simultaneous events.


The Bucks have the power to submarine their franchise yes.

You're being naive or hopeful that reality is more wholesome. Leonard absolutely could have publicly said I will only re-sign with an LA team and destroyed his value. He could even have refused to report. Players can violate obligations -- it almost never comes to that because franchises very often behave in a way that's economically rational.

Elite players are the only very rare commodity that matters in NBA economics.

Keep your head in the sand though


Toronto knew full well Kawhi's number one location was L.A. and yet they traded for him and he gave everything for the Raptors. He still had trade value, but it was reduced due to everyone knowing he wanted to end up at home. He even asked Masai why he traded for him. (probably knowing that Masai knew he was going to L.A. as a FA)

It would have been better for Toronto to have submarined their franchise than to give in to Vince Carter's trade demands. The man tanked his value to force a trade. The Raptors should have sent him home and said, when you are ready to play at your top level, and attract real trade offers, not the garbage the Nets gave up, then we might consider a trade. Caving to a trade demand was the worst decision in Raptor history.
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Re: Bucks Still Considered Favorites For Giannis Antetokounmpo In 2021 

Post#16 » by puja21 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:22 am

Dennis 37 wrote:
puja21 wrote:
Dennis 37 wrote:
It's not that hard.

1. Giannis is not the GM. He cannot make a trade go through unless the Bucks decide it is what is best under the circumstances. Giannis can say, "I want a trade," and Bucks can say, "Um, no."

2. The Bucks might decide to trade him. He has no control over where he goes, just like Kawhi ended up in Toronto. He does not have the power to say, "I'm not going to ________," without breaking his contractual obligations.

3. Giannis has the power to decide if he re-signs with the Bucks, or signs with a team he is traded to. Or plays out the season with the team to which he was traded, signs there, or signs with a new team.

Therefore, only the Bucks have the power to decide if he is traded, and at the end of the day, in free agency, Giannis will control his destiny. They are not simultaneous events.


The Bucks have the power to submarine their franchise yes.

You're being naive or hopeful that reality is more wholesome. Leonard absolutely could have publicly said I will only re-sign with an LA team and destroyed his value. He could even have refused to report. Players can violate obligations -- it almost never comes to that because franchises very often behave in a way that's economically rational.

Elite players are the only very rare commodity that matters in NBA economics.

Keep your head in the sand though


Toronto knew full well Kawhi's number one location was L.A. and yet they traded for him and he gave everything for the Raptors. He still had trade value, but it was reduced due to everyone knowing he wanted to end up at home. He even asked Masai why he traded for him. (probably knowing that Masai knew he was going to L.A. as a FA)

It would have been better for Toronto to have submarined their franchise than to give in to Vince Carter's trade demands. The man tanked his value to force a trade. The Raptors should have sent him home and said, when you are ready to play at your top level, and attract real trade offers, not the garbage the Nets gave up, then we might consider a trade. Caving to a trade demand was the worst decision in Raptor history.


You're making my point for me.

Leonard did not ever publicly say even one time he would only play in LA. Every team assumed that was the case of course, but announcing it would've been poison. Instead, you had GMs who saw it as a gamble, a one season courting period. Allowed the Spurs to recoup "some" value.

Carter only submarined his trade value because the Raptors were completely inept. It was well known -- same as w/ Leonard -- that Carter wanted out by the time their season ended. But when the Raptors fired Grunwald, Jack McCloskey wasn't empowered to make such a big move as just an interim GM. And when Babcock was hired in June, he refused to entertain trading Carter.
Classic GM ego/hubris.

Flash forward 3 mos to September 2004 and Carter had enough and went public w/ the trade demand. The Raptors had a full 5 months to make a smart deal and blew it. In his demand interviews, Carter even called out the team, saying he notified Babcock and Mitchell, but they weren't taking it seriously. Raptors brass screwed themselves, even worse than San Antonio did, because they had a more fickle star in their lap and ignored his power.

I don't think Antetoukoumpo is anywhere near as moody or selfish to the franchise as Carter was, but he's in charge same as Leonard and Vince were.

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