Rival Execs Want NBA To Intervene On James Harden Situation

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Rival Execs Want NBA To Intervene On James Harden Situation 

Post#1 » by RealGM Wiretap » Tue Dec 8, 2020 2:41 am

James Harden may already be in violation of his uniform player contract as he has yet to report to training camp with the Houston Rockets as he continues to seek a trade.


The Rockets likely don't want the situation to escalate at this point as it would involve the union.


"I'll tell you this, Mr. MacMahon," said Zach Lowe. "I have already heard from, I don't know, three, four people out of the blue today who don't work for the Rockets but work for the other 29 teams saying 'the league has to step in and do something about this. This is not okay.'


"This is going to become the latest referendum on player empowerment and when does it go too far? I think it's a nuanced and fascinating topic. But it's already spiraling out of control."


The Rockets are also "clinging to the hope" of convincing Harden to remain with the franchise.

Via Zach Lowe, Tim MacMahon/ESPN

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Re: Rival Execs Want NBA To Intervene On James Harden Situation 

Post#2 » by YoungMoney23 » Tue Dec 8, 2020 3:21 am

The current top tier players don't realize this but the Owners will be out to clamp down on this in the next CBA and to try and get some form of leverage back.
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Re: Rival Execs Want NBA To Intervene On James Harden Situation 

Post#3 » by antonaki1 » Tue Dec 8, 2020 3:32 am

The players are becoming the real GM's. This has to stop.
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Re: Rival Execs Want NBA To Intervene On James Harden Situation 

Post#4 » by objectivefan » Tue Dec 8, 2020 3:37 am

YoungMoney23 wrote:The current top tier players don't realize this but the Owners will be out to clamp down on this in the next CBA and to try and get some form of leverage back.


what does that mean? a lockout?

in any sport, a player can choose not to show up. It happens all the time, even in Football where the owners have all of the leverage, the team can choose to fine the player.

question, if Patrick Mahomes says trade me or I won't show up to play, what happens then? Sure, the team can and will fine him but at some point, he will get his way
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Re: Rival Execs Want NBA To Intervene On James Harden Situation 

Post#5 » by DeBlazerRiddem » Tue Dec 8, 2020 4:15 am

objectivefan wrote:question, if Patrick Mahomes says trade me or I won't show up to play, what happens then? Sure, the team can and will fine him but at some point, he will get his way


I don't know the NFL CBA but in basketball if a player doesn't show up their contract can be voided and they cannot play in the league for 2 years.
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Re: Rival Execs Want NBA To Intervene On James Harden Situation 

Post#6 » by ciueli » Tue Dec 8, 2020 4:18 am

Players have the power now and it will never change, there's no rule that can be introduced or enforced that can fix this, the Vince Carter situation the Raptors had in the early 2000s proves this. Once a player decides to intentionally play below their capability as Vince did, the team has 3 options:

1) Keep playing the player, keep losing games, keep lowering the trade value of the player.

2) Immediately trade the player for less than the player is worth.

3) Sit the player and do nothing, effectively destroying the team from a competitiveness and morale standpoint.

No team should ever let it get to that point, all of those are bad outcomes. The correct moves when a superstar player demands a trade are:

1) Try to convince the player to stay, explore all trade options to improve the team (this worked with Kobe Bryant and the Lakers). Houston has done this and they are not a competitive team, it's very likely they will be worse than last season even if Harden stays and plays to the best of his abilities.

2) Failing 1), immediately shop the player and take the best deal available. This is where Houston is making a big mistake. They are following the path of Rob Babcock who thought he could just ignore Vince's trade demand. He was wrong and wound up taking option 3) above, a horrible return for a player who was one of the most popular players in the NBA at the time.
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Re: Rival Execs Want NBA To Intervene On James Harden Situation 

Post#7 » by Jedzz » Tue Dec 8, 2020 4:48 am

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:
objectivefan wrote:question, if Patrick Mahomes says trade me or I won't show up to play, what happens then? Sure, the team can and will fine him but at some point, he will get his way


I don't know the NFL CBA but in basketball if a player doesn't show up their contract can be voided and they cannot play in the league for 2 years.


He would be like 33 coming off two years out of basketball. Sounds like leverage for the team right now.

I don't know why he doesn't just start the season and play stellar and make some teams drool now that they know he wants out. But I suppose Harden just wants his cake and to eat it too, forcing to a team he wants and to help that team not sell the farm and future for him at the same time.

I actually like their current roster make up more than last seasons.
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Re: Rival Execs Want NBA To Intervene On James Harden Situation 

Post#8 » by Ryoga Hibiki » Tue Dec 8, 2020 7:36 am

ciueli wrote:Players have the power now and it will never change, there's no rule that can be introduced or enforced that can fix this, the Vince Carter situation the Raptors had in the early 2000s proves this. Once a player decides to intentionally play below their capability as Vince did, the team has 3 options:

1) Keep playing the player, keep losing games, keep lowering the trade value of the player.

2) Immediately trade the player for less than the player is worth.

3) Sit the player and do nothing, effectively destroying the team from a competitiveness and morale standpoint.

No team should ever let it get to that point, all of those are bad outcomes. The correct moves when a superstar player demands a trade are:

1) Try to convince the player to stay, explore all trade options to improve the team (this worked with Kobe Bryant and the Lakers). Houston has done this and they are not a competitive team, it's very likely they will be worse than last season even if Harden stays and plays to the best of his abilities.

2) Failing 1), immediately shop the player and take the best deal available. This is where Houston is making a big mistake. They are following the path of Rob Babcock who thought he could just ignore Vince's trade demand. He was wrong and wound up taking option 3) above, a horrible return for a player who was one of the most popular players in the NBA at the time.

the team doesn't have many tools, but the league as a whole can have all the leverage of the world, unless a player is willing to go to Europe or to China.
If, somehow, Harden gets banned for some time he'll face significant losses, both economically and in terms of legacy, wasting precious prime years.
That's why you have those different sources, outside the Rockets organization, calling for the league to do something.
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Re: Rival Execs Want NBA To Intervene On James Harden Situation 

Post#9 » by gabri3l3 » Tue Dec 8, 2020 9:18 am

ciueli wrote:Players have the power now and it will never change, there's no rule that can be introduced or enforced that can fix this, the Vince Carter situation the Raptors had in the early 2000s proves this. Once a player decides to intentionally play below their capability as Vince did, the team has 3 options:

1) Keep playing the player, keep losing games, keep lowering the trade value of the player.

2) Immediately trade the player for less than the player is worth.

3) Sit the player and do nothing, effectively destroying the team from a competitiveness and morale standpoint.

No team should ever let it get to that point, all of those are bad outcomes. The correct moves when a superstar player demands a trade are:

1) Try to convince the player to stay, explore all trade options to improve the team (this worked with Kobe Bryant and the Lakers). Houston has done this and they are not a competitive team, it's very likely they will be worse than last season even if Harden stays and plays to the best of his abilities.

2) Failing 1), immediately shop the player and take the best deal available. This is where Houston is making a big mistake. They are following the path of Rob Babcock who thought he could just ignore Vince's trade demand. He was wrong and wound up taking option 3) above, a horrible return for a player who was one of the most popular players in the NBA at the time.


So what should they do? Trade him for Dinwiddie & Levert? Really?
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Re: Rival Execs Want NBA To Intervene On James Harden Situation 

Post#10 » by KGdaBom » Tue Dec 8, 2020 10:50 am

gabri3l3 wrote:
ciueli wrote:Players have the power now and it will never change, there's no rule that can be introduced or enforced that can fix this, the Vince Carter situation the Raptors had in the early 2000s proves this. Once a player decides to intentionally play below their capability as Vince did, the team has 3 options:

1) Keep playing the player, keep losing games, keep lowering the trade value of the player.

2) Immediately trade the player for less than the player is worth.

3) Sit the player and do nothing, effectively destroying the team from a competitiveness and morale standpoint.

No team should ever let it get to that point, all of those are bad outcomes. The correct moves when a superstar player demands a trade are:

1) Try to convince the player to stay, explore all trade options to improve the team (this worked with Kobe Bryant and the Lakers). Houston has done this and they are not a competitive team, it's very likely they will be worse than last season even if Harden stays and plays to the best of his abilities.

2) Failing 1), immediately shop the player and take the best deal available. This is where Houston is making a big mistake. They are following the path of Rob Babcock who thought he could just ignore Vince's trade demand. He was wrong and wound up taking option 3) above, a horrible return for a player who was one of the most popular players in the NBA at the time.


So what should they do? Trade him for Dinwiddie & Levert? Really?

This stuff should play out in civil court and the team should be able to recoup damages based on the players actions. These damages could be greater than the players contract.
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Re: Rival Execs Want NBA To Intervene On James Harden Situation 

Post#11 » by Cassius » Tue Dec 8, 2020 1:07 pm

Start the fines.
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Re: Rival Execs Want NBA To Intervene On James Harden Situation 

Post#12 » by TheCage4 » Tue Dec 8, 2020 2:59 pm

Don’t pay him and fine him as long as he’s away, then when he begrudgingly shows up, send him home for the season.

It’s time to make an example of these guys, and there is no one at this point I’d like to see exposed more than Harden.
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Re: Rival Execs Want NBA To Intervene On James Harden Situation 

Post#13 » by iserp » Tue Dec 8, 2020 3:56 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
gabri3l3 wrote:
ciueli wrote:Players have the power now and it will never change, there's no rule that can be introduced or enforced that can fix this, the Vince Carter situation the Raptors had in the early 2000s proves this. Once a player decides to intentionally play below their capability as Vince did, the team has 3 options:

1) Keep playing the player, keep losing games, keep lowering the trade value of the player.

2) Immediately trade the player for less than the player is worth.

3) Sit the player and do nothing, effectively destroying the team from a competitiveness and morale standpoint.

No team should ever let it get to that point, all of those are bad outcomes. The correct moves when a superstar player demands a trade are:

1) Try to convince the player to stay, explore all trade options to improve the team (this worked with Kobe Bryant and the Lakers). Houston has done this and they are not a competitive team, it's very likely they will be worse than last season even if Harden stays and plays to the best of his abilities.

2) Failing 1), immediately shop the player and take the best deal available. This is where Houston is making a big mistake. They are following the path of Rob Babcock who thought he could just ignore Vince's trade demand. He was wrong and wound up taking option 3) above, a horrible return for a player who was one of the most popular players in the NBA at the time.


So what should they do? Trade him for Dinwiddie & Levert? Really?

This stuff should play out in civil court and the team should be able to recoup damages based on the players actions. These damages could be greater than the players contract.


What if Harden goes into the court and play half-assedly? If the Rockets say he is not playing to the standards expected for a NBA player and damaging the franchise, then Harden can argue that the contract goes both ways and that the management has not performed to the standards expected of a NBA-level management (actually, well below that) and damaged his value.
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Re: Rival Execs Want NBA To Intervene On James Harden Situation 

Post#14 » by BigHustle » Tue Dec 8, 2020 4:15 pm

Losers move IMO. But it worked for AD...
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Re: Rival Execs Want NBA To Intervene On James Harden Situation 

Post#15 » by KGdaBom » Tue Dec 8, 2020 4:44 pm

BigHustle wrote:Losers move IMO. But it worked for AD...

Not playing was not Davis's idea. The team didn't want to risk an injury and have him lose trade value.
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Re: Rival Execs Want NBA To Intervene On James Harden Situation 

Post#16 » by KGdaBom » Tue Dec 8, 2020 4:46 pm

iserp wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
gabri3l3 wrote:
So what should they do? Trade him for Dinwiddie & Levert? Really?

This stuff should play out in civil court and the team should be able to recoup damages based on the players actions. These damages could be greater than the players contract.


What if Harden goes into the court and play half-assedly? If the Rockets say he is not playing to the standards expected for a NBA player and damaging the franchise, then Harden can argue that the contract goes both ways and that the management has not performed to the standards expected of a NBA-level management (actually, well below that) and damaged his value.

Civil court does not need proof. They just need what is called a preponderance of the evidence. If it appears that Harden is not doing his best for the Rockets than Harden can be ordered to pay restitution including having his accounts frozen and garnished until the damages are paid.
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Re: Rival Execs Want NBA To Intervene On James Harden Situation 

Post#17 » by ciueli » Tue Dec 8, 2020 5:02 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
iserp wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:This stuff should play out in civil court and the team should be able to recoup damages based on the players actions. These damages could be greater than the players contract.


What if Harden goes into the court and play half-assedly? If the Rockets say he is not playing to the standards expected for a NBA player and damaging the franchise, then Harden can argue that the contract goes both ways and that the management has not performed to the standards expected of a NBA-level management (actually, well below that) and damaged his value.

Civil court does not need proof. They just need what is called a preponderance of the evidence. If it appears that Harden is not doing his best for the Rockets than Harden can be ordered to pay restitution including having his accounts frozen and garnished until the damages are paid.


If the Rockets did this, the reputation of their franchise would be completely destroyed, no future big name free agent would ever consider signing there and they would have to massively overpay for even marginal free agents, they would be virtually blackballed as a team by the players. This is the reason they haven't fined or punished Harden for not showing up to training camp yet, it's a no-win situation for them. They need to trade him ASAP, as I have already said it's a Vince Carter situation in the making and the longer they wait the more trade value they lose.
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Re: Rival Execs Want NBA To Intervene On James Harden Situation 

Post#18 » by YoungMoney23 » Tue Dec 8, 2020 8:58 pm

objectivefan wrote:
YoungMoney23 wrote:The current top tier players don't realize this but the Owners will be out to clamp down on this in the next CBA and to try and get some form of leverage back.


what does that mean? a lockout?

in any sport, a player can choose not to show up. It happens all the time, even in Football where the owners have all of the leverage, the team can choose to fine the player.

question, if Patrick Mahomes says trade me or I won't show up to play, what happens then? Sure, the team can and will fine him but at some point, he will get his way


NFL is different, contracts still run off if a player chooses not to play. But in the NBA the contracts freeze if they don't play. NBA owners will probably want a franchise tag of some kind or a hard cap like they have in CBA's past. Which may lead to another lock out if the players don't budge. But how can the owners sit back and be okay with this when all the stars are saying we only want to play together on two or three teams in the league? Even when teams draft well or surround there top players with good talent and the players still bounce to team up with other big name players. Not sure what the owners will do but it won't surprise me if they try to clamp down on this in the next CBA
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