RealGM

Rudy Gobert and the Utah Jazz continue to discuss a contract extension but it has been difficult for the media to get an accurate gauge on where each side stands on the negotiations. Gobert is eligible for a supermax but he is not holding out for that rich of a contract.

"I don't have prescise contract figures," said Tim MacMahon on the Brian Windhorst Podcast. "I have been told that he did not ask for the full supermax. I know there has been some reporting in Utah that he did. I've been told that is not true. That he did not ask for the full supermax. 

"I don't know what neighborhood the Jazz are in. There's a gulf there. We will see if that gap is closed before the supermax extension deadline. He can also do a lesser extension during the season.

The relationship between Gobert and Donovan Mitchell no longer appears to be a concern for Utah.

"The encouraging thing was after the way too public fallout between Donovan and Rudy Gobert, things between them went very smoothly in the bubble. It reaffirmed the Jazz's belief that it can continue to be a productive and personal partnership. Nobody is asking whether Donovan and Rudy can get along right now."

Via Tim MacMahon, Brian Windhorst/ESPN

He should be willing.

Jazz would be nuts to offer him 5 years at $200 million plus.

Rudy Gobert is not worth anything close to the supermax. He basically gives you nothing on offense.

How generous.

25 mill a year player at best

Gordon Hayward has now screwed the Jazz twice as a result of the contacts he's signed. There's no way Gobert takes less than 30/year given his commitment to the team and Gord getting that ridiculous deal from the Hornets.

luss54321 wrote:Rudy Gobert is not worth anything close to the supermax. He basically gives you nothing on offense.

We could answer by "Mitchell is not worth anything to the supermax, he basically gives you nothing on defense"

Playoffs ? Didn't you see that when they were including more Gobert on offense, they were dominating Vs DEN ?

Last season, Gobert had a 130 OffRtg per Bballref, but he only has 8 shots attempts per game, only 8. Play more with him on offense, let him take 12-14 shots and you won't say he doesn't bring anything.

Their defense per 100poss. goes from 116pts without Gobert to 109pts with him, and the offense improves by 5pts
With Mitchell ? +2.5pts on offense and... -2.5pts on defense
He scores a lot, yes, but it was a solo thing last season, it didn't make UTA really win more.

At least, the two previous season, Mitchell had positive impact on offense and defense, but last season, he basically played for his contract more than for the team

Gobert had the 2nd best Real Plus Minus among the Centers in the league
Mitchell ? 51st among the shooting guards
The guy has a incredible offensive game, for sure, it's fun to watch, but the guys that made UTA dominating last season were Gobert, Bogdanovic, Ingles, O'Neale, Clarkson, before Mitchell, and he got a SuperMax. Max, I would have understand as he's young, can improve and they don't want to loose him, but SuperMax... and by giving it to Mitchell, they gave some leverage to Gobert's agent to ask more than he certainly thought at first

D21 wrote:

luss54321 wrote:Rudy Gobert is not worth anything close to the supermax. He basically gives you nothing on offense.

We could answer by "Mitchell is not worth anything to the supermax, he basically gives you nothing on defense"

Playoffs ? Didn't you see that when they were including more Gobert on offense, they were dominating Vs DEN ?

Last season, Gobert had a 130 OffRtg per Bballref, but he only has 8 shots attempts per game, only 8. Play more with him on offense, let him take 12-14 shots and you won't say he doesn't bring anything.

Their defense per 100poss. goes from 116pts without Gobert to 109pts with him, and the offense improves by 5pts
With Mitchell ? +2.5pts on offense and... -2.5pts on defense
He scores a lot, yes, but it was a solo thing last season, it didn't make UTA really win more.

At least, the two previous season, Mitchell had positive impact on offense and defense, but last season, he basically played for his contract more than for the team

Gobert had the 2nd best Real Plus Minus among the Centers in the league
Mitchell ? 51st among the shooting guards
The guy has a incredible offensive game, for sure, it's fun to watch, but the guys that made UTA dominating last season were Gobert, Bogdanovic, Ingles, O'Neale, Clarkson, before Mitchell, and he got a SuperMax. Max, I would have understand as he's young, can improve and they don't want to loose him, but SuperMax... and by giving it to Mitchell, they gave some leverage to Gobert's agent to ask more than he certainly thought at first

Mitchell is an elite chucker! Gobert is why the Jazz are contenders.

Jazz signed Favors and drafted Azubuike. Next year, I would totally offer him what Hayward got.

well done, RealGM.

luss54321 wrote:Rudy Gobert is not worth anything close to the supermax. He basically gives you nothing on offense.

While I agree that the Gobert isn't really worth the supermax, the Jazz are probably smart to do it if push comes to shove, as it's not worth losing Gobert for a few million a year. It's not easy to obtain a top 20 player, and I'd say Gobert is top 15. Gobert put up 16.9ppg in the playoffs with .638 TS%, how's that next to nothing.

Now to say he does nothing on offense couldn't be further from the truth. Gobert is 73rd in scoring, which is already better than over 80% of the league, and he does it at .699 TS% Gobert is 2nd all time in career eFG% so he's extremely efficient, and he's #1 in screen assists year after year, and the margin is large. Sure Gobert aint AD, Embiid, or Jokic on offense, but he's still very good offensively.

dautjazz wrote:

luss54321 wrote:Rudy Gobert is not worth anything close to the supermax. He basically gives you nothing on offense.

While I agree that the Gobert isn't really worth the supermax, the Jazz are probably smart to do it if push comes to shove, as it's not worth losing Gobert for a few million a year. It's not easy to obtain a top 20 player, and I'd say Gobert is top 15. Gobert put up 16.9ppg in the playoffs with .638 TS%, how's that next to nothing.

Now to say he does nothing on offense couldn't be further from the truth. Gobert is 73rd in scoring, which is already better than over 80% of the league, and he does it at .699 TS% Gobert is 2nd all time in career eFG% so he's extremely efficient, and he's #1 in screen assists year after year, and the margin is large. Sure Gobert aint AD, Embiid, or Jokic on offense, but he's still very good offensively.

But what skillset does he bring to the table on offense? Does he have a good post up game? Can he extend the defense and shoot 3 pointers? Is he a good FT shooter? Is he a good passer? Can he score in transition? The answer to all of those questions is a resounding no.

Gobert does a few things very well, but at the end of the day he has a very limited skillset.

He plays 35 MPG and gets 15 PPG, mostly off garbage buckets, which is definitely better than nothing, but there's probably 20 other centers around the league who could give you the same thing on offense for a fraction of the cost.

Centers who set good screens, play great defense, and grab offensive rebounds are definitely valuable, but nowhere close to deserving a super max. Maybe 20 years ago you give Gobert that deal but the NBA has changed a lot. Shooting, scoring, and offense is how you win games. You need players who are versatile, can defend multiple positions, and can stretch the defense with shooting. Gobert gives you none of those things.

luss54321 wrote:

dautjazz wrote:

luss54321 wrote:Rudy Gobert is not worth anything close to the supermax. He basically gives you nothing on offense.

While I agree that the Gobert isn't really worth the supermax, the Jazz are probably smart to do it if push comes to shove, as it's not worth losing Gobert for a few million a year. It's not easy to obtain a top 20 player, and I'd say Gobert is top 15. Gobert put up 16.9ppg in the playoffs with .638 TS%, how's that next to nothing.

Now to say he does nothing on offense couldn't be further from the truth. Gobert is 73rd in scoring, which is already better than over 80% of the league, and he does it at .699 TS% Gobert is 2nd all time in career eFG% so he's extremely efficient, and he's #1 in screen assists year after year, and the margin is large. Sure Gobert aint AD, Embiid, or Jokic on offense, but he's still very good offensively.

But what skillset does he bring to the table on offense? Does he have a good post up game? Can he extend the defense and shoot 3 pointers? Is he a good FT shooter? Is he a good passer? Can he score in transition? The answer to all of those questions is a resounding no.

Gobert does a few things very well, but at the end of the day he has a very limited skillset.

He plays 35 MPG and gets 15 PPG, mostly off garbage buckets, which is definitely better than nothing, but there's probably 20 other centers around the league who could give you the same thing on offense for a fraction of the cost.

Centers who set good screens, play great defense, and grab offensive rebounds are definitely valuable, but nowhere close to deserving a super max. Maybe 20 years ago you give Gobert that deal but the NBA has changed a lot. Shooting, scoring, and offense is how you win games. You need players who are versatile, can defend multiple positions, and can stretch the defense with shooting. Gobert gives you none of those things.

Utah has won alot of games with Rudy.

The issue with Urlrah isn't Gobert, it's that they are a step away from a true title contender.

They are right with Denver (the took them to 7 games without their starting PF/#2 scorer), Dallas (list to the team Denver beat), Portland (destroyed in round 1) and Houston (destroyed by a team Denver took 7 games).


The true contenders, I think most agree are Lakers, Clippers, Bucks, Nets. What separates these teams from Utah?
LeBron, Kwahi, Giannis, KD

If Utah can trade Gobert for any of them, the do that. If not you try to add to Gobert (which they've done quite well, Mitchell, Bogdon, Conley, etc.)

If you don't have those super super stars you can still win a title, it just has to be through depth, defense and great coaching.

Gobert can definitely be a key piece on a championship team.

We can argue over what he should be paid, but as long as he's healthy you'll be able to trade him, at very lest.

luss54321 wrote:

dautjazz wrote:

luss54321 wrote:Rudy Gobert is not worth anything close to the supermax. He basically gives you nothing on offense.

While I agree that the Gobert isn't really worth the supermax, the Jazz are probably smart to do it if push comes to shove, as it's not worth losing Gobert for a few million a year. It's not easy to obtain a top 20 player, and I'd say Gobert is top 15. Gobert put up 16.9ppg in the playoffs with .638 TS%, how's that next to nothing.

Now to say he does nothing on offense couldn't be further from the truth. Gobert is 73rd in scoring, which is already better than over 80% of the league, and he does it at .699 TS% Gobert is 2nd all time in career eFG% so he's extremely efficient, and he's #1 in screen assists year after year, and the margin is large. Sure Gobert aint AD, Embiid, or Jokic on offense, but he's still very good offensively.

But what skillset does he bring to the table on offense? Does he have a good post up game? Can he extend the defense and shoot 3 pointers? Is he a good FT shooter? Is he a good passer? Can he score in transition? The answer to all of those questions is a resounding no.

Gobert does a few things very well, but at the end of the day he has a very limited skillset.

He plays 35 MPG and gets 15 PPG, mostly off garbage buckets, which is definitely better than nothing, but there's probably 20 other centers around the league who could give you the same thing on offense for a fraction of the cost.

Centers who set good screens, play great defense, and grab offensive rebounds are definitely valuable, but nowhere close to deserving a super max. Maybe 20 years ago you give Gobert that deal but the NBA has changed a lot. Shooting, scoring, and offense is how you win games. You need players who are versatile, can defend multiple positions, and can stretch the defense with shooting. Gobert gives you none of those things.

He's limited, but he still puts up 15+ ppg, while being 2nd all time in career FG% and career eFG%, and #1 in career TS% (though he doesn't have sufficient attempts yet to qualify). Considering he's basically goat in terms of efficiency, 15ppg is not bad. While he's not going to make many midrange jumpers or pull up behind the arc, he also understands that it aint his game and he doesn't attempt it. In the end of the day Gobert was 6th overall in ppg for centers, behind just Jokic, Vucevic, Drummond, Whiteside, and Ibaka among qualified centers, so I'd say he's very good offensively among centers and he's the best defensively.

Also this thing about having to defend multiple positions, I'm sorry but most great rim defenders aren't excellent perimeter defenders. Gobert has actually gotten much better at defending as far as the perimeter, and being 3rd in DPOY and first All-Defensive center shows he's still the best defensive center in the league.

dautjazz wrote:

luss54321 wrote:

dautjazz wrote:
While I agree that the Gobert isn't really worth the supermax, the Jazz are probably smart to do it if push comes to shove, as it's not worth losing Gobert for a few million a year. It's not easy to obtain a top 20 player, and I'd say Gobert is top 15. Gobert put up 16.9ppg in the playoffs with .638 TS%, how's that next to nothing.

Now to say he does nothing on offense couldn't be further from the truth. Gobert is 73rd in scoring, which is already better than over 80% of the league, and he does it at .699 TS% Gobert is 2nd all time in career eFG% so he's extremely efficient, and he's #1 in screen assists year after year, and the margin is large. Sure Gobert aint AD, Embiid, or Jokic on offense, but he's still very good offensively.

But what skillset does he bring to the table on offense? Does he have a good post up game? Can he extend the defense and shoot 3 pointers? Is he a good FT shooter? Is he a good passer? Can he score in transition? The answer to all of those questions is a resounding no.

Gobert does a few things very well, but at the end of the day he has a very limited skillset.

He plays 35 MPG and gets 15 PPG, mostly off garbage buckets, which is definitely better than nothing, but there's probably 20 other centers around the league who could give you the same thing on offense for a fraction of the cost.

Centers who set good screens, play great defense, and grab offensive rebounds are definitely valuable, but nowhere close to deserving a super max. Maybe 20 years ago you give Gobert that deal but the NBA has changed a lot. Shooting, scoring, and offense is how you win games. You need players who are versatile, can defend multiple positions, and can stretch the defense with shooting. Gobert gives you none of those things.

He's limited, but he still puts up 15+ ppg, while being 2nd all time in career FG% and career eFG%, and #1 in career TS% (though he doesn't have sufficient attempts yet to qualify). Considering he's basically goat in terms of efficiency, 15ppg is not bad. While he's not going to make many midrange jumpers or pull up behind the arc, he also understands that it aint his game and he doesn't attempt it. In the end of the day Gobert was 6th overall in ppg for centers, behind just Jokic, Vucevic, Drummond, Whiteside, and Ibaka among qualified centers, so I'd say he's very good offensively among centers and he's the best defensively.

Also this thing about having to defend multiple positions, I'm sorry but most great rim defenders aren't excellent perimeter defenders. Gobert has actually gotten much better at defending as far as the perimeter, and being 3rd in DPOY and first All-Defensive center shows he's still the best defensive center in the league.

you can always tell someone who never played basketball, or who was never any good at basketball, when you read things like "But what skillset does he bring to the table on offense? Does he have a good post up game? Can he extend the defense and shoot 3 pointers? Is he a good FT shooter? Is he a good passer? Can he score in transition?"

I'm not saying he deserves a SuperMax - that's not the point of my comment. My point is you are wildly undervaluing the relationship a high efficiency finisher around the rim and a superb screener/roll man has on the flow of an offense and the way they can positively influence the types of sets that can be run. Big men who finish around the rim and who set screens/roll are a dime a dozen. What aren't a dime a dozen are big men who do those things and basically carry the gravitational pull of a supernova star, pulling the defense this way and that simply by roving the short corners up to the elbow. The entire offense runs more efficiently. Lanes that aren't there when they're off the floor, suddenly are there.

I don't expect you to agree with this, because if you knew you'd already know and wouldn't have wrote what you wrote. I just feel bad that you never had the joy of balling at high enough level to actually know this stuff.

Kinda funny. Rudy, you're a good player, but you're NOT that guy

I too am willing to accept below the Supermax from the Jazz.

The Jazz were just sold.

How involved has the new ownership group been in discussions so far? That seems like a key factor when negotiating such a big contract