France Beats United States In Opening Game Of Olympics

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France Beats United States In Opening Game Of Olympics 

Post#1 » by RealGM Wiretap » Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:19 pm

The United States suffered their first loss in the Olympics since 2004, dropping a 83-76 game to France. The United States entered the game with a 25-game winning steak in the Olympics.


France overcame an eight-point deficit with four minutes to play and the win was sealed with an Evan Fournier three-pointer with a minute to play. Fournier finished the game with 28 points.


"I got to lead the team because I know these guys," Fournier said. "It's a hell of a win. Our country is going to be extremely proud. But it's just one game, to be honest."


"There's nothing to be surprised about," Team USA coach Gregg Popovich said before launching into what has become his go-to statement after losses.


"When you lose a game, you're not surprised. You're disappointed, but I don't understand the word surprised. That sort of disses the French team, so to speak, as if we're supposed to beat them by 30 or something. That's a hell of a team."


Popovich has overseen losses in five of the past eight games.


The Americans now will likely have to win their final two pool-play games against Iran and the Czech Republic to advance to the medal round.

Via Brian Windhorst/ESPN

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Re: France Beats United States In Opening Game Of Olympics 

Post#2 » by coolbyme » Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:33 pm

... Love Pop, love the NBA, but, vaginal hubris is a thing, and honestly this always feels good
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Re: France Beats United States In Opening Game Of Olympics 

Post#3 » by the_process » Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:31 pm

I won't lie, if they lose to Iran or the Czechs I will laugh. A lot.
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Re: France Beats United States In Opening Game Of Olympics 

Post#4 » by njknicks » Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:45 pm

NBA is predicated on stars -- FIBA is predicated on team play.

Majority of the international teams have been playing alongside each other since their teens.

Whereas for the USA team, it's primarily tryouts for each Olympics ( therefore no consistency in roster / coaching continuity ).

Ultimately, FIBA has made big strides in terms of talent level and focusing on fundamentals. Whereas today's NBA is all about 3 point shooting and layups ( no midrange, no post play, less emphasis on defense and more emphasis on high octane offense ).

As the international level of talent continues to rise, the US teams will continue to suffer these types of defeats until they start adopting certain aspects of FIBA rules within the NBA and focusing more on team play vs. magnifying individual stars.

Ultimately, it would not be surprising if in the future the US teams do not medal at all. Which is great for global impact of basketball -- but lousy for the NBA.

Some rules that would be great to see in the NBA :

* Change the painted area to a trapezoid ( opens up the perimeter )
* 5 foul disqualifications instead of 6 ( allows for entire teams to participate instead of having a 8 man rotation )
* Reduce # of timeouts to match FIBA ( 1 timeout per quarter and 2 during last quarter ) to speed up the game
* Eliminate basket interference ( forces team to box out )
* Change jump ball concept ( team that loses initial jump ball gets possession on next jump ball ) to speed up the game
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Re: France Beats United States In Opening Game Of Olympics 

Post#5 » by hyberx » Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:11 pm

Pop said he prepared for France for two years and was thinking about it every day? Joking or not, now it's extra funny. :lol:

Oh wait, I know why! Pop you are too white! That's why!
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Re: France Beats United States In Opening Game Of Olympics 

Post#6 » by jk31 » Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:46 pm

njknicks wrote:
* Change the painted area to a trapezoid ( opens up the perimeter )


Why? FIBA just changed to the rectangle few years ago to match NBA court style.
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Re: France Beats United States In Opening Game Of Olympics 

Post#7 » by D21 » Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:40 pm

njknicks wrote:NBA is predicated on stars -- FIBA is predicated on team play.
Majority of the international teams have been playing alongside each other since their teens.
Whereas for the USA team, it's primarily tryouts for each Olympics ( therefore no consistency in roster / coaching continuity )....

Except that France team, and some other teams, have a lot of NBA players and so can't practice together really much more than the USA team. Now Holiday, Middleton and Booker are just starting with the team so they will certainly improve chemistry

njknicks wrote:Some rules that would be great to see in the NBA :
* 5 foul disqualifications instead of 6 ( allows for entire teams to participate instead of having a 8 man rotation )

It's 5 fouls in FIBA because of the 40 minutes game, it's the same rhythm than 6 fouls for 48 minutes

I would say that the rule NBA should copy on FIBA is the when foul are done away from the ball (hack-a-"who you want").
If you foul the player with the ball, it's 2 FTs, but if it's intentionally a player without the ball, it's 2 FTs for him AND the ball possession. Just so logical to do that.
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Re: France Beats United States In Opening Game Of Olympics 

Post#8 » by BigTex » Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:36 pm

njknicks wrote:
I would say that the rule NBA should copy on FIBA is the when foul are done away from the ball (hack-a-"who you want").
If you foul the player with the ball, it's 2 FTs, but if it's intentionally a player without the ball, it's 2 FTs for him AND the ball possession. Just so logical to do that.


What a horrible rule. Who on earth would you want to do that. It let's teams cover up for bad free throw shooters. What they should do is get rid of the special rule for the last two minutes so players have to lear to shoot. Nobody wants to watch someone like Ben Simmons who is crippled offensively. Or put differently, if a team plays an offensive cripple, make them pull him off the court when he starts sucking at the line, and make them pull him in the last two minutes.
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Re: France Beats United States In Opening Game Of Olympics 

Post#9 » by kenwood3333 » Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:12 pm

I m waiting for some of the original dream team members to comment on the lost. Would love to hear what Pippen had to say.
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Re: France Beats United States In Opening Game Of Olympics 

Post#10 » by pagal » Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:04 am

LMAO - that's what happens when you build the team around punka** KD and JayBUM...bunch of losers. Hopefully one of the other team will pull an upset in one of the next 2 games.
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Re: France Beats United States In Opening Game Of Olympics 

Post#11 » by og15 » Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:36 am

njknicks wrote:NBA is predicated on stars -- FIBA is predicated on team play.

Majority of the international teams have been playing alongside each other since their teens.

Whereas for the USA team, it's primarily tryouts for each Olympics ( therefore no consistency in roster / coaching continuity ).

Ultimately, FIBA has made big strides in terms of talent level and focusing on fundamentals. Whereas today's NBA is all about 3 point shooting and layups ( no midrange, no post play, less emphasis on defense and more emphasis on high octane offense ).

As the international level of talent continues to rise, the US teams will continue to suffer these types of defeats until they start adopting certain aspects of FIBA rules within the NBA and focusing more on team play vs. magnifying individual stars.

Ultimately, it would not be surprising if in the future the US teams do not medal at all. Which is great for global impact of basketball -- but lousy for the NBA.

Some rules that would be great to see in the NBA :

* Change the painted area to a trapezoid ( opens up the perimeter )
* 5 foul disqualifications instead of 6 ( allows for entire teams to participate instead of having a 8 man rotation )
* Reduce # of timeouts to match FIBA ( 1 timeout per quarter and 2 during last quarter ) to speed up the game
* Eliminate basket interference ( forces team to box out )
* Change jump ball concept ( team that loses initial jump ball gets possession on next jump ball ) to speed up the game

The NBA only has one official jump ball, beginning of the game. Whomever wins it gets the ball again in the 4th. The loser gets it in the 2nd and 3rd. I'm not sure what is being changed here.

NBA gives players one foul every 8 minute, FIBA gives players 1 foul every 8 minutes, there's no discrepancy. FIBA games are 83% of an NBA game in length, therefore you get 83% of the available fouls.
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Re: France Beats United States In Opening Game Of Olympics 

Post#12 » by MitchB3 » Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:28 am

I keep telling people this, the days of team USA just sending 12 platers to the Olympics are over. The rest of the world has caught up, they have scouts who watch the games, the league has softened the players, to where you breathe the wrong way you get called for a foul. Also, 2's beat 3's when you are shooting & making more 2's than the other team. Trying to outshoot your opponent works once in a while.
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Re: France Beats United States In Opening Game Of Olympics 

Post#13 » by LewisnotMiller » Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:56 am

BigTex wrote:
njknicks wrote:
I would say that the rule NBA should copy on FIBA is the when foul are done away from the ball (hack-a-"who you want").
If you foul the player with the ball, it's 2 FTs, but if it's intentionally a player without the ball, it's 2 FTs for him AND the ball possession. Just so logical to do that.


What a horrible rule. Who on earth would you want to do that. It let's teams cover up for bad free throw shooters. What they should do is get rid of the special rule for the last two minutes so players have to lear to shoot. Nobody wants to watch someone like Ben Simmons who is crippled offensively. Or put differently, if a team plays an offensive cripple, make them pull him off the court when he starts sucking at the line, and make them pull him in the last two minutes.


I have no issue with either the FIBA rules or the NBA rules. They're just different, and one of a variety of adjustments players need to make when going from one to the other.
But as someone who plays with the FIBA rules (more or less) in Australia, it's pretty simple. Make basketball plays, and you'll have no issue. Make 'tactical' plays that don't don't involve actually trying to defend the ball, and you'll have trouble.
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Re: France Beats United States In Opening Game Of Olympics 

Post#14 » by LewisnotMiller » Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:05 am

MitchB3 wrote:I keep telling people this, the days of team USA just sending 12 platers to the Olympics are over. The rest of the world has caught up, they have scouts who watch the games, the league has softened the players, to where you breathe the wrong way you get called for a foul. Also, 2's beat 3's when you are shooting & making more 2's than the other team. Trying to outshoot your opponent works once in a while.


I think the intimidation factor isn't there any more too. I still think the US should be raging hot favourite in every tournament, since they always have the most talent, by far. But ultimately even the best NBA teams generally rely on 2-3 focus points for their offense. Having a tenth man who can give you 20 a night if you give him enough touches really doesn't do too much for you.

Australia is led by Mills, Ingles, Baynes and Delly, and have guys like Dante Exum and Matisse Thybulle playing important roles. They're massively undertalented compared to the US. But they have no fear of them, at all. They've faced them day in day out for years.
Far cry from 1992, when other teams were asking Jordan for autographs before and after games.

We just beat Nigeria by 19 in our first game, and it was predicated on a coherent and consistent defence. The offence was pretty scrappy, and only really Patty Mills gave us real punch.
(He hit 5 threes, and assisted on 4 more).

Guys like Ingles and Mills have put National duties as a priority for years. Much as Carmelo Anthony did for the US. That ability to step into a game, play a FIBA-role (as opposed to the NBA one players have to somewhat unlearn) and to provide some consistency is valuable, I think.
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Re: France Beats United States In Opening Game Of Olympics 

Post#15 » by jk31 » Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:08 am

LewisnotMiller wrote: But ultimately even the best NBA teams generally rely on 2-3 focus points for their offense. Having a tenth man who can give you 20 a night if you give him enough touches really doesn't do too much for you.



That's the point. You either need to give out proper roles to your stars AND make them play into their roles or you should rather put role players on the team who fully play what they are asked to do! I always liked the addition of guys like Kenneth Faried to Team USA. No, he wasnt ever anywhere near being a star in the NBA, but he played hard everytime he entered the court. Team USA should be built like any proper NBA team, too. You have like 2 or 3 shot creators that either score themselves or set up their teammates and you need roleplayers that take what is given to them. Space the floor, play hard D, rebound.
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Re: France Beats United States In Opening Game Of Olympics 

Post#16 » by LewisnotMiller » Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:11 am

jk31 wrote:
LewisnotMiller wrote: But ultimately even the best NBA teams generally rely on 2-3 focus points for their offense. Having a tenth man who can give you 20 a night if you give him enough touches really doesn't do too much for you.



That's the point. You either need to give out proper roles to your stars AND make them play into their roles or you should rather put role players on the team who fully play what they are asked to do! I always liked the addition of guys like Kenneth Faried to Team USA. No, he wasnt ever anywhere near being a star in the NBA, but he played hard everytime he entered the court. Team USA should be built like any proper NBA team, too. You have like 2 or 3 shot creators that either score themselves or set up their teammates and you need roleplayers that take what is given to them. Space the floor, play hard D, rebound.


Yup, I agree with you.

I kinda shake my head at all the people getting into Lillard. If he was on the Boomers he'd know...when you're open, shoot. When you're half open, shoot. If they double, swing the ball. On the US team, I suspect it's trickier for him to know with absolute clarity when to let loose.

Whilst teams like Australia have a little bit of continuity (we are old, and Ingles, Mills and Baynes have played together multiple times), it's not a huge amount. Coaches have changed, key players have changed, some guys pull out, some get injured, etc.

None of the team's run amazingly complex stuff. It's mostly some set piece read and react stuff.

If I was the US, I'm picking about 6 out and out scorers. After that it's all role based. Who's defending the Gasol brothers, or Gobert? Who's following Mills around 6 screens? Who's providing an old school post based offence?

Maybe some of those things aren't even needed, but that's no different to many NBA big men. Sometimes they're super important. Sometimes they're chained to the bench. But it only really matters when you DON'T look down the bench and see the option.
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Re: France Beats United States In Opening Game Of Olympics 

Post#17 » by CanesHeatFins » Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:17 am

Everyone's side stepping the obvious, Pop has been an absolute disaster since taking over for Coach K. Funny how suddenly and conveniently "the world caught up" only when Larry Brown and Pop was the coach. We are literally facing the same players coach K was beating by 30. When we get the right guy back in the seat, the same excuses that we were using in 2004 will go away.
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Re: France Beats United States In Opening Game Of Olympics 

Post#18 » by D21 » Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:50 am

CanesHeatFins wrote:Everyone's side stepping the obvious, Pop has been an absolute disaster since taking over for Coach K. Funny how suddenly and conveniently "the world caught up" only when Larry Brown and Pop was the coach. We are literally facing the same players coach K was beating by 30. When we get the right guy back in the seat, the same excuses that we were using in 2004 will go away.

Are you really objective ? Pop can be blamed, but all on him ?
I think Coach K teams were a bit better, more prepared, and they are surely not playing Vs the same kind of teams

And Pop has nothing to do with Fournier able to adjust to a closer 3pts line while a guys like Durant, Tatum and Booker can't on open 3pts shots (after 8 FIBA rules games in the last weeks... except for Booker)
Sure they will be better once Holiday, Middleton and Booker are in rhythm with the other guys, but don't blame Pop on this game, they just didn't hit one shot in the last 3"30

Small point : USA were +3 without Keldon Johnson, and -11 with him
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Re: France Beats United States In Opening Game Of Olympics 

Post#19 » by CanesHeatFins » Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:13 pm

D21 wrote:
CanesHeatFins wrote:Everyone's side stepping the obvious, Pop has been an absolute disaster since taking over for Coach K. Funny how suddenly and conveniently "the world caught up" only when Larry Brown and Pop was the coach. We are literally facing the same players coach K was beating by 30. When we get the right guy back in the seat, the same excuses that we were using in 2004 will go away.

Are you really objective ? Pop can be blamed, but all on him ?
I think Coach K teams were a bit better, more prepared, and they are surely not playing Vs the same kind of teams

And Pop has nothing to do with Fournier able to adjust to a closer 3pts line while a guys like Durant, Tatum and Booker can't on open 3pts shots (after 8 FIBA rules games in the last weeks... except for Booker)
Sure they will be better once Holiday, Middleton and Booker are in rhythm with the other guys, but don't blame Pop on this game, they just didn't hit one shot in the last 3"30

Small point : USA were +3 without Keldon Johnson, and -11 with him


Nigeria beat us and then got beat by 46 points against the Australia backup team three days later. And Pops had the nerve to preac to the media that "good teams don't get blown out.

I don't think you guys realize how bad he's underachieving. It's not just this yr, he struggled within months of replacing Coach K when he finished 7th with team USA in 2019.

I will never understand the love afair and hall pass you guys keep giving Pop. He is the common denominator, period. The teams that he's facing didn't just morph into existence. You can't have it both ways, don't use the excuse that "tell me these
teams have playing together for yrs" and turn around and tell me "the world caught up/these are different teams".

If this were the NBA, this wouldn't even be a debate. You're not allowed to massively underachieve when you have the most talent. Dis man is out here losing more games in two yrs than the previous 30yrs combined, and everyone still to intimidated to state the obvious.
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Re: France Beats United States In Opening Game Of Olympics 

Post#20 » by madmaxmedia » Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:49 pm

D21 wrote:
njknicks wrote:NBA is predicated on stars -- FIBA is predicated on team play.
Majority of the international teams have been playing alongside each other since their teens.
Whereas for the USA team, it's primarily tryouts for each Olympics ( therefore no consistency in roster / coaching continuity )....

Except that France team, and some other teams, have a lot of NBA players and so can't practice together really much more than the USA team. Now Holiday, Middleton and Booker are just starting with the team so they will certainly improve chemistry

njknicks wrote:Some rules that would be great to see in the NBA :
* 5 foul disqualifications instead of 6 ( allows for entire teams to participate instead of having a 8 man rotation )

It's 5 fouls in FIBA because of the 40 minutes game, it's the same rhythm than 6 fouls for 48 minutes

I would say that the rule NBA should copy on FIBA is the when foul are done away from the ball (hack-a-"who you want").
If you foul the player with the ball, it's 2 FTs, but if it's intentionally a player without the ball, it's 2 FTs for him AND the ball possession. Just so logical to do that.


The whole 'NBA basketball is selfish or soft or whatever" doesn't really hold water when many of the major international teams are led by NBA players. IMO, the presence of these players on their international teams has helped narrowed the gap. There is no reason for good foreign teams like France to be intimidated playing the USA, they have a lot more familiarity with the NBA team guys even if the USA team roster talent is better.

I doubt any of the major international teams get much practice time together either. It's much like World Cup soccer, most of the year the major players are off playing for pro soccer teams in other countries.

Finally, the USA hadn't lost a basketball game in the Olympics since 2004, it's not like this has been on ongoing thing.

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