Re: Sixers Asked For CJ McCollum And Three Firsts Plus Swaps For Ben Simmons

[MartinToVaught]

Doc's comment in context is definitely just him saying 'I don't want to touch that question, next'

I'm far from a Simmons fan, but it's actually disingenous to pretend like Doc's comment was just that in context. He coddled Simmons all season, compared him to Magic, scoffed at anyone who was concerned about Simmons' limitations, then threw him under the bus to deflect attention away from his historically awful coaching.

All I can say to Sixer fans is, get used to it, because this isn't going away even after Simmons is traded. Doc is the worst coach in sports history and an egomaniac who uses the players as scapegoats.

[HotelVitale]

I think you're letting them off a bit too easy. After the comments when they made a gazillion stories about it, they didn't come back the next day and go "Man, the press is full of crap, you completely took that out of context, Ben is our guy, how dare you!" Instead the 76ers went out and aggressively shopped Simmons around the whole league before not finding an offer they wanted then trying to make nice.

I've written about this a bunch of the GB and I'm boring myself jabbering about it again, but in short I don't think that's a reasonable interpretation of the comments. Really not trying to defend Doc, but it's been driving me a little crazy that thousands of usually smart people are apparently intentionally misreading the evidence that we have on hand because it makes for a more interesting storyline. Doc's clip is very clear, he starts by blaming a ton of other things and then a reporter brings up Ben and he says 'I don't know about that question, and I don't want to talk about it now.' It's over right after that and it's very very clearly him saying 'no comment.' Haven't had a single person look at the whole clip on the GB and honestly defend the other take on it, and I honestly don't think there's anything to work with to make that . Sure he could've said 'I won't answer that question' but he clearly is trying to say that, and he shuts down the question within about 10 seconds. And again he blamed a TON of other stuff in his postgame interview.

The other stuff you're talking about also seems like it's people turning off their brains to make this more of a tense two-sided drama than just a little flameout by Simmons. It's hard to consider it offensive that they shopped him around the league after he'd already requested a trade, and after we've been told so SO many times by every NBA player interview, podcast, book, etc that players always think of the league as a business and that they could be traded at any time. Also remember that this was right after Simmons had what any reasonable person would call another bad series/disappearing act in the playoffs when the Sixers needed scoring. Simmons had a bad series that showed (again) he's not a good fit, he didn't even acknowledge that fact (again) and said he played just fine, then he demanded a trade and started an unprecedented holdout despite the fact that his team is a contender that's built around him for years. I'm fine with Simmons saying he didn't like the negativity and I don't even judge him for it, it's just really weird that people keep saying 'yeah and he's damn right too!' He's just running from a tough situation, let's just let that be what it is.

Here's what I agree with: those clips gave something for the media + social media to take them out of context, which helped along the anti-Simmons tidal wave that happened for the couple weeks after the Hawks loss. That was probably the nail in the coffin, and it makes sense that a guy like Simmons didn't see any reason to hang around and risk more of it.

[Vegeta10176]

Ridiculous, and if anything the wrong team getting picks here. If they can get McCollum to get rid of that pansy they should take it and run

Ahh nooo just noo

[Vegeta10176]

1. There is no guarantee his shot will ever get better.

2. He has hinted that his final destination will be California.

That's why no one will give anything close to equal value.

He is an excellent defensive talent with passing ability. He will only fit on a team with 4 starters who can shoot. Those teams will not trade one of those shooters if it only leaves them with three.

So Kings should trade fox they would make the play-offs with Simmons rather than fox

[basketballwacko2]

You're phrasing this in very stark terms--like saying no to Levert now means they're going to just get nothing for 2 years. The strategy now is based on the fact that they're just pretty sure that those same meh offers will be available if they absolutely have to take them in a few months. Not only might there be some new trade options by that time, but the Sixers will also have a much better sense of what they actually need to keep themselves in contention. Ben's been the FT point guard for years and years now, and he's obviously a very unusual PG, so they want to see what things look like without him, and Morey might also be looking to jigger the rest of the roster around too. I'm not saying that's a brilliant strategy--there's definite downsides to it--but it's reasonable and it's probably what you'd want your team to do if you had to trade your young star who was at his lowest possible trade value.

Brogdon and LeVert is not "meh." I honestly think the response Morey is getting from the other GM's is "meh". Simmons (on his contract) is "meh". Those offers may be there, but I don't see them getting better and PHI is missing the opportunity to bring in players for training camp. Whatever they bring in, it will be much less effective if it happens at the deadline.

I mean, as a Sixers fan I'm definitely feeling some sour grapes these days but that just seems like it's pushing things. It's not a controversial position that Simmons is one of the most physically gifted guys in the league, and it's not like he was a fake all-star or anything; the chance to get someone with his talent at his age is extremely rare. If you don't need him to score in the depths of the playoffs there's not a whole lot to dislike there--he's a serious force on defense, terrific rebounder, great at creating 3s, one of the truly elite transition players in the league, always plays hard. He just has this one glaring hole that the Sixers keep getting tripped up by, and that he got tired of being blamed for. If he joined your team he'd make them a LOT better right away.

(I also don't know if Brogdon and Levert have been offered together, never read that from a credible source.)

I don't trust Simmons to pull this again, I don't want to give up Brogdon for him. I feel like he's over paid and over rated.

[basketballwacko2]

Wow CJ + 3 picks + 2 pick swaps?

This is Ben Simmons not Kevin Durant.

[dougthonus]

I've written about this a bunch of the GB and I'm boring myself jabbering about it again, but in short I don't think that's a reasonable interpretation of the comments. Really not trying to defend Doc, but it's been driving me a little crazy that thousands of usually smart people are apparently intentionally misreading the evidence that we have on hand because it makes for a more interesting storyline. Doc's clip is very clear, he starts by blaming a ton of other things and then a reporter brings up Ben and he says 'I don't know about that question, and I don't want to talk about it now.' It's over right after that and it's very very clearly him saying 'no comment.' Haven't had a single person look at the whole clip on the GB and honestly defend the other take on it, and I honestly don't think there's anything to work with to make that . Sure he could've said 'I won't answer that question' but he clearly is trying to say that, and he shuts down the question within about 10 seconds. And again he blamed a TON of other stuff in his postgame interview.

So a few things:
Saying no comment is the same as throwing him under the bus.

It doesn't explain why he doesn't clarify later or try to mend fences once the title wave hits.

The other stuff you're talking about also seems like it's people turning off their brains to make this more of a tense two-sided drama than just a little flameout by Simmons. It's hard to consider it offensive that they shopped him around the league after he'd already requested a trade, and after we've been told so SO many times by every NBA player interview, podcast, book, etc that players always think of the league as a business and that they could be traded at any time. Also remember that this was right after Simmons had what any reasonable person would call another bad series/disappearing act in the playoffs when the Sixers needed scoring. Simmons had a bad series that showed (again) he's not a good fit, he didn't even acknowledge that fact (again) and said he played just fine, then he demanded a trade and started an unprecedented holdout despite the fact that his team is a contender that's built around him for years. I'm fine with Simmons saying he didn't like the negativity and I don't even judge him for it, it's just really weird that people keep saying 'yeah and he's damn right too!' He's just running from a tough situation, let's just let that be what it is.

Simmons sure looks like a loser in this situation too. I don't think the 76ers throwing gasoline on the fire and Simmons looking like a loser are mutually exclusive.

[dhsilv2]

If PHI trades Simmons for Brogdon and LeVert they have two players that are currently more tradeable than Simmons.

I'm not sure they're worth much of anything, unless team is desperately trying to unload a player. Philly isn't desperate at all to make a move here. They don't have to get a deal done this year. There's no loss in trade value 3 years left vs 4 years left on Ben's contract.

You don't think Brogdon or LeVert have trade value? I strongly disagree.

But you are correct. Simmons is not worth his 4 year deal, and he will be equally not worth his three years remaining after next season. The downside is that PHI will have punted on a season. If history is any guide, big men like Embiid don't have any seasons to waste.

Ben if he's engaged and playing is a great value at his current contract.

[dhsilv2]

I'm not sure they're worth much of anything, unless team is desperately trying to unload a player. Philly isn't desperate at all to make a move here. They don't have to get a deal done this year. There's no loss in trade value 3 years left vs 4 years left on Ben's contract.

You don't think Brogdon or LeVert have trade value? I strongly disagree.

But you are correct. Simmons is not worth his 4 year deal, and he will be equally not worth his three years remaining after next season. The downside is that PHI will have punted on a season. If history is any guide, big men like Embiid don't have any seasons to waste.

That's my point. Sure, technically Philly doesn't need to move him. But it's the opportunity cost of not having 1-2 very useful players that could mean the difference between a decent team and a team competing for a championship. Are they willing to forfeit that to hold out for a boatload of draft picks that no one is going to give them? Draft picks are nice but they aren't going to help you win games anytime soon and after you draft them they tend to be somewhat useless to harmful in the playoffs.

If philly was offered players that could make them a contender they'd take the deal. These guys aren't even close to that. They don't fit the roster...philly would have to make more moves to even build a logical roster and frankly they have young talent they'd rather develop than take on a trade project.

[GunnerWRX]

Wow CJ + 3 picks + 2 pick swaps?

This is Ben Simmons not Kevin Durant.

Someone please tell Morey about it.

[f33lsogood]

Wow CJ + 3 picks + 2 pick swaps?

This is Ben Simmons not Kevin Durant.

Someone please tell Morey about it.

It’s free to dream high.

Someone ask Morey what is he smoking.

[HighRyzer83]

Sometimes you gotta know when to fold 'em Daryl.

[23artest23]

It would be refreshing to see the rest of the league just ignore Philly til they are willing to own up to their mistake. 76ers should be sending picks out with Ben rather than demanding them. I bet James Harden looks really fn good right now, eh Daryl?

[SlimShady83]

If I were Portland ... I would do this in a heart beat...

Portland are not going to win anything, anytime soon ...

And will be in rebuilding mode very, very soon

[njknicks]

Ben Simmons needs a strong organizational structure to rejuvenate his career & extract the very best out of his talent.

Given the uncertainty of Damian Lillard's future, a new head-coach, and mid level overall talent on the roster ... it would be a horrible move for the Blazers to mortgage their future for a player how is not committed towards improving his talent level.

Blazers should hold the line ... with each passing day the Sixers will be hard pressed not to pull the trigger on a move. Let the chess match begin.

[nitocobola]

2021 and some folks still belive that mccollum is a good player.

Hard pass, morey isn't that dumb.

[nitocobola]

If I were Portland ... I would do this in a heart beat...

Portland are not going to win anything, anytime soon ...

And will be in rebuilding mode very, very soon

of course that they should, mccollum is ass. Yet some dumb gm poster will tell you that morey was trying to fleece them.

[sisibilio]

Also re: McCollum, the hesitations are deeper than just him being a little older: he's a small guard and a weak defender, and the Sixers already have Curry and Maxey in that boat and they can't afford to get roasted on the perimeter and stay competitive. He's also injury prone and got that lingering foot issue. More importantly, McCollum also isn't a pure point or consistent initiator and that's the real issue the Sixers have faced--they don't have anyone who can initiate their offense in the halfcourt beyond Embiid and Harris isos and that's cost them big, and they can't afford to punt on that while also giving up the creation that Simmons brought (which despite its major limitations was consistent and very useful in the RS).

So they want a 28 YO Butler with better playmaking. Good luck finding that.

[Tamimi]

What's Morey's success during his career? At best: a mixed bag. He and 6ers are making fools out of themselves for asking such a price. I doubt other teams execs would take them seriously.

[HotelVitale]

Also re: McCollum, the hesitations are deeper than just him being a little older: he's a small guard and a weak defender, and the Sixers already have Curry and Maxey in that boat and they can't afford to get roasted on the perimeter and stay competitive. He's also injury prone and got that lingering foot issue. More importantly, McCollum also isn't a pure point or consistent initiator and that's the real issue the Sixers have faced--they don't have anyone who can initiate their offense in the halfcourt beyond Embiid and Harris isos and that's cost them big, and they can't afford to punt on that while also giving up the creation that Simmons brought (which despite its major limitations was consistent and very useful in the RS).

So they want a 28 YO Butler with better playmaking. Good luck finding that.

Yeah nobody said that. Was trying to explain that McCollum is good but he does create a new problem for the Sixers and doesn't solve their main problem. That's why you're seeing the Sixers being not all that excited about this trade, and they're not going to take something like that unless they really have no other choice.