RealGM

The Philadelphia 76ers have fined Ben Simmons for failing to travel with the team on their six-game road trip.

Simmons and the 76ers have continued in their standoff as both sides seek a trade.

Via Shams Charania/The Athletic

10 years from now...
Ben Simmons sues Rich Paul for losing out on millions and his basketball career.

I think the NBPA and league needs to get involved soon here and force a trade to be completed. Just trade him already. There's just no way I see this one resolve it self in a way where the Sixers increase the trade value of Simmons and they get more in a trade. I would trade him for Wall or CJ or whatever the best offer on the table is at this time. Better deals will just not happen.

tigerae wrote:I think the NBPA and league needs to get involved soon here and force a trade to be completed. Just trade him already. There's just no way I see this one resolve it self in a way where the Sixers increase the trade value of Simmons and they get more in a trade. I would trade him for Wall or CJ or whatever the best offer on the table is at this time. Better deals will just not happen.

No. While both sides are watching the situation closely, this is the Sixers and Simmons problem to solve.

Simmons can claim mental health all he wants. He is being insubordinate and only complaining about losing money for failing to do the bare minimum.

He was on camera being insubordinate & disinterested at practice the same day the team gave him back the $8,250,000 it was holding in escrow.

When he starts acting like a professional, he can get paid again. It's that simple.

SparksAC wrote:10 years from now...
Ben Simmons sues Rich Paul for losing out on millions and his basketball career.

Doubt that. Simmons is making his own choices. It's up to Paul to support his client but he surely didn't recommend his course of action (and not without any legal protections).

Rashidi wrote:

tigerae wrote:I think the NBPA and league needs to get involved soon here and force a trade to be completed. Just trade him already. There's just no way I see this one resolve it self in a way where the Sixers increase the trade value of Simmons and they get more in a trade. I would trade him for Wall or CJ or whatever the best offer on the table is at this time. Better deals will just not happen.

No. While both sides are watching the situation closely, this is the Sixers and Simmons problem to solve.

Simmons can claim mental health all he wants. He is being insubordinate and only complaining about losing money for failing to do the bare minimum.

He was on camera being insubordinate & disinterested at practice the same day the team gave him back the $8,250,000 it was holding in escrow.

When he starts acting like a professional, he can get paid again. It's that simple.

What's the point for the Sixers not trading him besides likely kicking themselves for not taking the better offers they were getting before the hold out when they were shopping him around? They just won't get those offers anymore. At this point I would be concerned for Ben's safety at home games anyway. Philly fans are something else to say the least. It is plain moronic to even think that somehow Ben playing will give teams amnesia and make them offer more. They know he wants out and that the Sixers want to trade him.

It would be better to allow him to work out for potential trade partners. That would be the only way I see a team be willing to offer a little more if Ben really impresses at a private work out. Similar to how they allow coaches interview for jobs maybe, if something like this is even allowed by the NBA.

I just don't understand. The team, coaches and even some players like Embiid didn't think highly of his skill set last year so why would they feel they deserve a superstar in return? Here I have what I feel like is a rock and no matter what I tried to do with it, it still remained a rock. But hey, give me your diamond because just maybe you can turn my rock in to a diamond, too.

Well Ben isn't really the type to take responsibility, even for his own decisions

Rashidi wrote:

SparksAC wrote:10 years from now...
Ben Simmons sues Rich Paul for losing out on millions and his basketball career.

Doubt that. Simmons is making his own choices. It's up to Paul to support his client but he surely didn't recommend his course of action (and not without any legal protections).

The owner needs to step in. He must have forgotten how long “The Process” took. Now they’re a contender and dealing with this unprofessional nonsense? If I’m the owner… I’m firing Morey and sending a stern message to Doc or he can get the axe too. Hiring a new GM and trading Simmons so we can move forward as a Championship contender. Morey is a recent hire on top of that and has done nothing but cause a complete ****. 100% Simmons caused this , Doc stirred it up with his comments, but now the “boss” GM is not doing his due diligence for the best interest of the team. Bottom line.

While the popular position is to just pile on Simmons, the fact is the Sixers need to trade him and move on.

When it's all said and done, that's how the story ends anything. So what's the point of dragging this out? The dirty laundry is out and no one is offering a star for hm.

Trade him for serviceable pieces and picks and move on.

GMjobZK wrote:The owner needs to step in. He must have forgotten how long “The Process” took. Now they’re a contender and dealing with this unprofessional nonsense? If I’m the owner… I’m firing Morey and sending a stern message to Doc or he can get the axe too. Hiring a new GM and trading Simmons so we can move forward as a Championship contender. Morey is a recent hire on top of that and has done nothing but cause a complete ****. 100% Simmons caused this , Doc stirred it up with his comments, but now the “boss” GM is not doing his due diligence for the best interest of the team. Bottom line.

Fire Morey. Lol. He makes 10M per year guaranteed with 4 years remaining.
Fire Doc? Lol. He also makes 10M per year guaranteed with 4 years remaining.

Your "solution" is for the owner to spend 80M + excluding the additional 20-40M it will take to replace them with DOWNGRADES.

A "stern" message indeed. Threatening them with free money. LOL.

Rashidi wrote:

GMjobZK wrote:The owner needs to step in. He must have forgotten how long “The Process” took. Now they’re a contender and dealing with this unprofessional nonsense? If I’m the owner… I’m firing Morey and sending a stern message to Doc or he can get the axe too. Hiring a new GM and trading Simmons so we can move forward as a Championship contender. Morey is a recent hire on top of that and has done nothing but cause a complete ****. 100% Simmons caused this , Doc stirred it up with his comments, but now the “boss” GM is not doing his due diligence for the best interest of the team. Bottom line.

Fire Morey. Lol. He makes 10M per year guaranteed with 4 years remaining.
Fire Doc? Lol. He also makes 10M per year guaranteed with 4 years remaining.

Your "solution" is for the owner to spend 80M + excluding the additional 20-40M it will take to replace them with DOWNGRADES.

A "stern" message indeed. Threatening them with free money. LOL.

I'd that both Doc and Morey have done great by the owners' standards. Morey more so than Doc, but still, man, why on god's green earth would you get rid of them now?

At a certain point it becomes impressive to see someone burn all their bridges. It takes a lot of constitution to tear down what you've built to glorify your massive ego. Am I talking about Ben or Morey?

Iron Mantis wrote:While the popular position is to just pile on Simmons, the fact is the Sixers need to trade him and move on.

When it's all said and done, that's how the story ends anything. So what's the point of dragging this out? The dirty laundry is out and no one is offering a star for hm.

Trade him for serviceable pieces and picks and move on.

After Dec 15 (or around then), there are more options for trading, due to the ability to trade contracts signed this summer.

tigerae wrote:What's the point for the Sixers not trading him besides likely kicking themselves for not taking the better offers they were getting before the hold out when they were shopping him around?

It doesn't matter what you think their point is. It is their decision to make whether they want to live in this situation or complete a trade. They may simply be waiting until Dec 15th when newly signed players are able to be included. They may wait for the deadline and hope their is better value when teams have more certainty as to what they are doing. They may just be stupid.

I said in the off-season, just trade him for the best offer you can because it won't get better. That has played out to be true. It didn't have to be, maybe Ben could have come back and improved his value, but it has turned out to be true and his value likely won't go up from here. That said, they may still get better offers due to other teams situations changing.

Either way, it is their decision to make, not the NBPA's. Not Ben Simmons. It is theirs. Ben's decision is to play or not play (and potentially not get paid if he chooses not to play). The NBPA's role is to ensure they protect Ben Simmons if the 76ers try to dock his pay unfairly.

GMjobZK wrote:The owner needs to step in. He must have forgotten how long “The Process” took. Now they’re a contender and dealing with this unprofessional nonsense? If I’m the owner… I’m firing Morey and sending a stern message to Doc or he can get the axe too. Hiring a new GM and trading Simmons so we can move forward as a Championship contender. Morey is a recent hire on top of that and has done nothing but cause a complete ****. 100% Simmons caused this , Doc stirred it up with his comments, but now the “boss” GM is not doing his due diligence for the best interest of the team. Bottom line.

Do you really think the owners are not in on this,morey is doing what ownership wants lol

tigerae wrote:I think the NBPA and league needs to get involved soon here and force a trade to be completed. Just trade him already. There's just no way I see this one resolve it self in a way where the Sixers increase the trade value of Simmons and they get more in a trade. I would trade him for Wall or CJ or whatever the best offer on the table is at this time. Better deals will just not happen.

tigerae wrote:What's the point for the Sixers not trading him besides likely kicking themselves for not taking the better offers they were getting before the hold out when they were shopping him around? They just won't get those offers anymore. At this point I would be concerned for Ben's safety at home games anyway. Philly fans are something else to say the least. It is plain moronic to even think that somehow Ben playing will give teams amnesia and make them offer more. They know he wants out and that the Sixers want to trade him.

It would be better to allow him to work out for potential trade partners. That would be the only way I see a team be willing to offer a little more if Ben really impresses at a private work out. Similar to how they allow coaches interview for jobs maybe, if something like this is even allowed by the NBA.

I just don't understand. The team, coaches and even some players like Embiid didn't think highly of his skill set last year so why would they feel they deserve a superstar in return? Here I have what I feel like is a rock and no matter what I tried to do with it, it still remained a rock. But hey, give me your diamond because just maybe you can turn my rock in to a diamond, too.

This is an extremely naive POV

There are dozens of examples over the years where msg board comments like this eat crow later

One small example:

Feb 2017, the weekend before the trade deadline. Vlade's Kings are 1 game out of the 8 seed in the West. Boogie Cousins is averaging 28 pts, 11 reb, 5 ast, and almost 1.5 both steals and blocks, while shooting 36% on 3P and 77% FT on 10 attempts. RealGM posts several wiretap article that morning that "The Pelicans are interested in Cousins"

There are dozens of posts like this: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=415&t=1527967
Hundreds of comments like this:
"The Pelicans have nothing to give up with enough value to get Cousins."
"Go home Pelicans you're drunk."
"I just don't see how this could EVER happen."
Some of the comments are just laughing or sarcasm

Hours later, of course, Cousins is heading to New Orleans for Tyreke Evans and Buddy Hield

The response from the skeptical above was almost universal: "well I wasn't wrong, Vlade is just stupid"

And that's where your fallacy is -- you can't imagine that there is a GM out there willing to do something stupid. GM's make awful moves every season to try and change "something" (anything) in futile attempts to save their jobs.

There is ALWAYS a Billy King, David Kahn, Vlade Divac, Isiah Thomas, Rob Babock, Wes Unseld etc... You may not know who it is yet, but this person is out there among the 30 teams just waiting for a chance to do something dumb.

Why would the NBAPA get involved? Simmons created this problem for himself. He can solve it himself. Or he can sit and wait until either Morey gives up, the owner gets involved and forces that, OR that stupid GM makes himself known and the Sixers surprise you.

All NBA front offices are not rational, let alone equal.

Amin Elhassan (former Suns' scout) just said this week on SXM NBA: "Our biggest mistake in Phoenix was not realizing how dumb other teams were." -- talking about things like Haseem Thabeet drafted ahead of Steph Curry ("We were arguing if we should take Thabeet in the second ROUND if he fell to us")

Could Morey be wrong? Sure, but he's not wrong that getting "just some value" for Simmons doesn't help his job security anymore than "no" value. He's got get serious value here or he's effed in the long run anyway.

Sixers are just bullying Simmons at this point.

Having said that, Simmons needs to stop this wishy-washy mental health BS and make a decision here.

1) Fully comply to the letters of his contract and let your actions on the court speak for you. He obviously can't get himself up for games, I don't think it'll take much effort (if at all) to underperform enough to force Sixers to accept reality in terms of return value. Not saying he has to throw games or anything like that but saying he's messed up enough that it'll naturally happen once he's out there going through the motions. Then Sixers will finally stop asking for the moon and accept lesser players like they should have long time ago. This IMO is the fastest route to get what he wants and he doesn't lose any money. Maybe he suffers some humiliation out there but it's way past the point where he should worry about that with his reputation getting dragged through the mud already and him coming out looking weaker and weaker. At least, he has enough years left on his current contract to be able to build his value back up once traded.

2) Or take a stand, go back to LA, and be willing to lose lots of money. It'll be harder and may take longer but eventually, Sixers are going to have to accept reality as well or risk wasting away Embiid's prime. I personally wouldn't recommend this route but this would be the healthier approach than what he's doing now IMO.

If he keeps going like this, eventually, he's gonna get dragged out there where 1) will still probably play out but he would have wasted all that time and money for nothing.

If he took his finger out of his butt, he wouldn't be butt hurt anymore bro.

kalel123 wrote:Sixers are just bullying Simmons at this point.

Having said that, Simmons needs to stop this wishy-washy mental health BS and make a decision here.

1) Fully comply to the letters of his contract and let your actions on the court speak for you. He obviously can't get himself up for games, I don't think it'll take much effort (if at all) to underperform enough to force Sixers to accept reality in terms of return value. Not saying he has to throw games or anything like that but saying he's messed up enough that it'll naturally happen once he's out there going through the motions. Then Sixers will finally stop asking for the moon and accept lesser players like they should have long time ago. This IMO is the fastest route to get what he wants and he doesn't lose any money. Maybe he suffers some humiliation out there but it's way past the point where he should worry about that with his reputation getting dragged through the mud already and him coming out looking weaker and weaker. At least, he has enough years left on his current contract to be able to build his value back up once traded.

2) Or take a stand, go back to LA, and be willing to lose lots of money. It'll be harder and may take longer but eventually, Sixers are going to have to accept reality as well or risk wasting away Embiid's prime. I personally wouldn't recommend this route but this would be the healthier approach than what he's doing now IMO.

If he keeps going like this, eventually, he's gonna get dragged out there where 1) will still probably play out but he would have wasted all that time and money for nothing.

He's getting paid $31.5m and not fulfilling the requirements of his contract. How is trying to get back money being paid 'bullying' him?

puja21 wrote:

tigerae wrote:I think the NBPA and league needs to get involved soon here and force a trade to be completed. Just trade him already. There's just no way I see this one resolve it self in a way where the Sixers increase the trade value of Simmons and they get more in a trade. I would trade him for Wall or CJ or whatever the best offer on the table is at this time. Better deals will just not happen.

tigerae wrote:What's the point for the Sixers not trading him besides likely kicking themselves for not taking the better offers they were getting before the hold out when they were shopping him around? They just won't get those offers anymore. At this point I would be concerned for Ben's safety at home games anyway. Philly fans are something else to say the least. It is plain moronic to even think that somehow Ben playing will give teams amnesia and make them offer more. They know he wants out and that the Sixers want to trade him.

It would be better to allow him to work out for potential trade partners. That would be the only way I see a team be willing to offer a little more if Ben really impresses at a private work out. Similar to how they allow coaches interview for jobs maybe, if something like this is even allowed by the NBA.

I just don't understand. The team, coaches and even some players like Embiid didn't think highly of his skill set last year so why would they feel they deserve a superstar in return? Here I have what I feel like is a rock and no matter what I tried to do with it, it still remained a rock. But hey, give me your diamond because just maybe you can turn my rock in to a diamond, too.

This is an extremely naive POV

There are dozens of examples over the years where msg board comments like this eat crow later

One small example:

Feb 2017, the weekend before the trade deadline. Vlade's Kings are 1 game out of the 8 seed in the West. Boogie Cousins is averaging 28 pts, 11 reb, 5 ast, and almost 1.5 both steals and blocks, while shooting 36% on 3P and 77% FT on 10 attempts. RealGM posts several wiretap article that morning that "The Pelicans are interested in Cousins"

There are dozens of posts like this: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=415&t=1527967
Hundreds of comments like this:
"The Pelicans have nothing to give up with enough value to get Cousins."
"Go home Pelicans you're drunk."
"I just don't see how this could EVER happen."
Some of the comments are just laughing or sarcasm

Hours later, of course, Cousins is heading to New Orleans for Tyreke Evans and Buddy Hield

The response from the skeptical above was almost universal: "well I wasn't wrong, Vlade is just stupid"

And that's where your fallacy is -- you can't imagine that there is a GM out there willing to do something stupid. GM's make awful moves every season to try and change "something" (anything) in futile attempts to save their jobs.

There is ALWAYS a Billy King, David Kahn, Vlade Divac, Isiah Thomas, Rob Babock, Wes Unseld etc... You may not know who it is yet, but this person is out there among the 30 teams just waiting for a chance to do something dumb.

Why would the NBAPA get involved? Simmons created this problem for himself. He can solve it himself. Or he can sit and wait until either Morey gives up, the owner gets involved and forces that, OR that stupid GM makes himself known and the Sixers surprise you.

All NBA front offices are not rational, let alone equal.

Amin Elhassan (former Suns' scout) just said this week on SXM NBA: "Our biggest mistake in Phoenix was not realizing how dumb other teams were." -- talking about things like Haseem Thabeet drafted ahead of Steph Curry ("We were arguing if we should take Thabeet in the second ROUND if he fell to us")

Could Morey be wrong? Sure, but he's not wrong that getting "just some value" for Simmons doesn't help his job security anymore than "no" value. He's got get serious value here or he's effed in the long run anyway.

I would argue that Morey is the stupid one. Simmons is not the cornerstone of a contender and no GM is going to trade for him as such. He's a $25M player on a $35M contract. He will not get a current All-Star in return. Don't misunderstand me, there are winning moves out there for PHI but none of them are going to make Morey look like a genius, not right away anyway.

Morey is worrying about appearing to win this trade when he should be worried about winning on the court. There are a handful of players that he could have traded Simmons for in the Summer that would have really helped PHI. Him asking for and All-Star, a prospect and picks is foolish for several reasons. 1) He's wasting time waiting for something that will not happen. 2) Prospects and picks do nothing for them. Morey says he'll wait four years if necessary, but their window is now. Embiid might not be in the league in four years. If they got a non-all-star starter and a solid rotation player they would be one of the deepest teams in the league. And if they got a non-all-star from the West like Barnes or McCollum they might actually be all-stars in the East. Morey might let his ego blow this for him.

But I guess, if your argument is that some GM might do something stupid and give Morey what he's asking for, sure anything is possible.... but that would be really, really stupid.