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John Wall met with Houston Rockets General Manager Rafael Stone and head coach Stephen Silas about returning to play for the team. Unfortunately, that Sunday meeting didn't yield an agreement on Wall's return.

The holdup appears to be a difference in opinion on what Wall's role with the team should be. Wall would like a chance to start, while the Rockets would like the former All-Star to come off the bench. Houston sees Wall as a backup for young guards Jalen Green and Kevin Porter Jr.

Wall initially agreed with the Rockets brass that he wouldn't play this season, while the team looked for a trade. Wall has over $44 million on his deal for this season and player option for $47 million for 2022-23. That's made finding a trade partner nearly impossible for Houston.

Via Adrian Wojnarowski/ESPN

For as long as the Rockets are tanking, he'll never get to start.

As of next year, however, the lineup could be Wall + KPJ + Green + Wood + Rookie.

I mean, do they really think he's gonna help them win that much? I think he's still serviceable but not like star level.

IWishIWasHarden wrote:For as long as the Rockets are tanking, he'll never get to start.

As of next year, however, the lineup could be Wall + KPJ + Green + Wood + Rookie.

Wait-

So the rockets could activate wall and then fine him
If he doesn’t play and recoup the money…

By starting the conversation John has let the GDs in the door

CobraCommander wrote:

IWishIWasHarden wrote:For as long as the Rockets are tanking, he'll never get to start.

As of next year, however, the lineup could be Wall + KPJ + Green + Wood + Rookie.

Wait-

So the rockets could activate wall and then fine him
If he doesn’t play and recoup the money…

By starting the conversation John has let the GDs in the door

Fines don't get recouped, they just go to charity. Money allocated to salary is gone, period.

alphatron10 wrote:I mean, do they really think he's gonna help them win that much? I think he's still serviceable but not like star level.

He'd help them more than Green or KPJ.

Now, John Wall won't take out a buyout but I guarantee that John Wall never said to them "I want to start and have to start".
The dude just wants to play so that teams can see what he's got and hopefully a trade can work out.

the13thjoker wrote:Now, John Wall won't take out a buyout but I guarantee that John Wall never said to them "I want to start and have to start".
The dude just wants to play so that teams can see what he's got and hopefully a trade can work out.

Well clearly he doesn't just want to play. If he just wanted to play then he would in fact be playing now.

Tim Reynolds wrote:Fines don't get recouped, they just go to charity. Money allocated to salary is gone, period.

If they stop paying him for breach of contract, I don't believe that qualifies as a fine which would go to charity.

dougthonus wrote:

Tim Reynolds wrote:Fines don't get recouped, they just go to charity. Money allocated to salary is gone, period.

If they stop paying him for breach of contract, I don't believe that qualifies as a fine which would go to charity.

Nope.

In addition to any other rights a Team or the NBA may have by contract (including but not limited to the rights set forth in paragraphs 9 and 16 of the Uniform Player Contract) or by law, when a player fails or refuses, without proper and reasonable cause or excuse, to render the services required by a Player Contract or this Agreement, or when a player is, for proper cause, suspended by his Team or the NBA in accordance with the terms of such Contract or this Agreement, the Current Base Compensation payable to the player for the year of the Contract during which such refusal or failure and/or suspension occurs may be reduced (or, in the case of a suspension, shall be reduced) by (a) 1/145th of the player’s Base Compensation for each missed Exhibition, Regular Season or Playoff game



TLDR: A player skipping out on games is the same as a team or NBA suspending them. The. Money. Is. Gone.

Tim Reynolds wrote:Nope.

In addition to any other rights a Team or the NBA may have by contract (including but not limited to the rights set forth in paragraphs 9 and 16 of the Uniform Player Contract) or by law, when a player fails or refuses, without proper and reasonable cause or excuse, to render the services required by a Player Contract or this Agreement, or when a player is, for proper cause, suspended by his Team or the NBA in accordance with the terms of such Contract or this Agreement, the Current Base Compensation payable to the player for the year of the Contract during which such refusal or failure and/or suspension occurs may be reduced (or, in the case of a suspension, shall be reduced) by (a) 1/145th of the player’s Base Compensation for each missed Exhibition, Regular Season or Playoff game



TLDR: A player skipping out on games is the same as a team or NBA suspending them. The. Money. Is. Gone.

This explicitly says the compensation is reduced not that the player is fined. Compensation being reduced absolutely sounds like the team keeps the money. Philly was withholding money from Ben Simmons, not fining him and giving the money to the league.

Tim Reynolds wrote:

dougthonus wrote:

Tim Reynolds wrote:Fines don't get recouped, they just go to charity. Money allocated to salary is gone, period.

If they stop paying him for breach of contract, I don't believe that qualifies as a fine which would go to charity.

Nope.

In addition to any other rights a Team or the NBA may have by contract (including but not limited to the rights set forth in paragraphs 9 and 16 of the Uniform Player Contract) or by law, when a player fails or refuses, without proper and reasonable cause or excuse, to render the services required by a Player Contract or this Agreement, or when a player is, for proper cause, suspended by his Team or the NBA in accordance with the terms of such Contract or this Agreement, the Current Base Compensation payable to the player for the year of the Contract during which such refusal or failure and/or suspension occurs may be reduced (or, in the case of a suspension, shall be reduced) by (a) 1/145th of the player’s Base Compensation for each missed Exhibition, Regular Season or Playoff game



TLDR: A player skipping out on games is the same as a team or NBA suspending them. The. Money. Is. Gone.

Where is that from?

Everything I've read in Larry Coon's CBA says all guarantees are individually negotiated (understanding of course that there is almost surely some boiler-plate language being adopted across 90% of deals)

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q63

Curious where the "uniform player contract" language is from?

Wall is hearing the talk and beginning to think about legacy. He's a 5-time all-star and if he could play decent minutes for about 25 games this season he will likely pass four HOF players (Iverson, Jordan, Kareem and Bird) on the all-time assists list. If he can play for three more years, even with last seasons averages, he will be top 20 all-time in assists. Top 10 is a stretch, but top 15 is definitely in reach. I don't think he's a HOF player, but he could make a case for himself if he gets back on the floor. If I were him I would be laying awake at night thinking about it.

puja21 wrote:

Tim Reynolds wrote:

dougthonus wrote:
If they stop paying him for breach of contract, I don't believe that qualifies as a fine which would go to charity.

Nope.

In addition to any other rights a Team or the NBA may have by contract (including but not limited to the rights set forth in paragraphs 9 and 16 of the Uniform Player Contract) or by law, when a player fails or refuses, without proper and reasonable cause or excuse, to render the services required by a Player Contract or this Agreement, or when a player is, for proper cause, suspended by his Team or the NBA in accordance with the terms of such Contract or this Agreement, the Current Base Compensation payable to the player for the year of the Contract during which such refusal or failure and/or suspension occurs may be reduced (or, in the case of a suspension, shall be reduced) by (a) 1/145th of the player’s Base Compensation for each missed Exhibition, Regular Season or Playoff game



TLDR: A player skipping out on games is the same as a team or NBA suspending them. The. Money. Is. Gone.

Where is that from?

Everything I've read in Larry Coon's CBA says all guarantees are individually negotiated (understanding of course that there is almost surely some boiler-plate language being adopted across 90% of deals)

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q63

Curious where the "uniform player contract" language is from?

From the current CBA

https://atlhawksfanatic.github.io/NBA-CBA/


Specifically this section

https://atlhawksfanatic.github.io/NBA-CBA/uniform-player-contract.html

I've never been part of a NBA contract signing, but my understanding is that this is the base "framework" that all contracts include, then finer details are negotiated. This provides some things cannot be negotiated out of contract, such as health care I'm guessing, but i haven't read the exact details.

Rockets are tanking. They don’t want wall playing much at all.

Remember players don’t tank. They play hard. The ones in the games playing. But teams front offices can tank by putting out the worst or more inexperience players (player development Houston will call it).

The difference between okc draft odds (6th in draft) vs 1-4 were only a couple of games last season. So if wall helps win a couple of games. It means Houston could be picking out of the top 3 in the draft. And we all know draft talent can drop significantly after the top 2/3 in almost all nba drafts.

Houston just wants to be bad.