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The Chicago Bulls have seemingly leaned into a rebuild this offseason. The Bulls traded veteran guard Alex Caruso to the Oklahoma City Thunder for Josh Giddey, and then signed-and-traded veteran wing DeMar DeRozan to the Sacramento Kings.

However, trades haven't been found for Zach LaVine or Nikola Vucevic to really push the rebuilding efforts forward. In fact, there seems to be no market available for either player.

Trade talks for LaVine haven't gone anywhere, and cap space to absorb LaVine's contract has mostly dried up. The market for Vucevic never really developed in the first place, with teams wary of taking on the veteran center's contract.

LaVine is owed $137.9 million over the next three seasons. Vucevic is on the books for $41.5 million over the next two seasons.

Via Joe Cowley/Chicago Sun Times

Bulls can be a Playoff team if Lonzo Ball and everyone else is healthy. Their starting five would be top notch:

Ball
White
Lavine
Giddey
Vucevic

They can always make an in-season trade and sign a good player off a buyout midway if they’re as good as they are on paper.

If "ifs and buts were"...

elmdawgg69 wrote:Bulls can be a Playoff team if Lonzo Ball and everyone else is healthy. Their starting five would be top notch:

Ball
White
Lavine
Giddey
Vucevic

They can always make an in-season trade and sign a good player off a buyout midway if they’re as good as they are on paper.

Counting on Ball is a fool's errand. Even so, who plays PF or defense on that lineup you listed? It's terrible all the way around. This is a bad team, healthy or not.

BigGargamel wrote:

elmdawgg69 wrote:Bulls can be a Playoff team if Lonzo Ball and everyone else is healthy. Their starting five would be top notch:

Ball
White
Lavine
Giddey
Vucevic

They can always make an in-season trade and sign a good player off a buyout midway if they’re as good as they are on paper.

Counting on Ball is a fool's errand. Even so, who plays PF or defense on that lineup you listed? It's terrible all the way around. This is a bad team, healthy or not.

Counting on any of those players to be more than a 3rd option on a good team would be a fools errand. Any situation where LaVine thinks he's the #1 is a losing situation.

elmdawgg69 wrote:Bulls can be a Playoff team if Lonzo Ball and everyone else is healthy. Their starting five would be top notch:

Ball
White
Lavine
Giddey
Vucevic

They can always make an in-season trade and sign a good player off a buyout midway if they’re as good as they are on paper.

White
Giddy
Lavine
Williams
Vucevic

They could compete for the play in game

It’s a giant leap of faith to believe Ball will come back in any capacity to contribute. Even if he’s 100% healthy, without set back, the amount of time to readjust to the game would be measurable and thus negatively impact the Bulls ability to be competitive.

TheCage4 wrote:It’s a giant leap of faith to believe Ball will come back in any capacity to contribute. Even if he’s 100% healthy, without set back, the amount of time to readjust to the game would be measurable and thus negatively impact the Bulls ability to be competitive.

Lonzo's role has been greatly overstated. He was a straw that stirred the drink, not the drink itself. Even if he comes back and is ready to stir, the drink is a little rancid at this point. Best case for the Bulls is that he shows he's healthy and can still play and then gets traded. Most likely scenario is that he remains at home and quickly begins talking about next year..

elmdawgg69 wrote:Bulls can be a Playoff team if Lonzo Ball and everyone else is healthy. Their starting five would be top notch:

Ball
White
Lavine
Giddey
Vucevic

They can always make an in-season trade and sign a good player off a buyout midway if they’re as good as they are on paper.

I don't think the Bulls envision Ball in the starting line-up. Williams will start over Ball and Gidey will be the team's primary ball handler. I'm rooting for Lonzo to get back out on the court, but he's not stepping into an NBA starting five after not playing basketball for two and a half years. And I am not seeing what looks so good on paper or the court.

They can always make an in-season trade and sign a good player off a buyout midway if they’re as good as they are on paper.
White
Giddy
Lavine
Williams
Vucevic

They could compete for the play in game






No, they couldn't

Overpaying bums and/or trading for them taking their ridiculous contracts never ends well. Lavine and Vucevic are good players, but they are not worth even half of those contracts.

If this guys will have some value again in near future It will be near their contracts expiring

elmdawgg69 wrote:Bulls can be a Playoff team if Lonzo Ball and everyone else is healthy. Their starting five would be top notch:

Ball
White
Lavine
Giddey
Vucevic

They can always make an in-season trade and sign a good player off a buyout midway if they’re as good as they are on paper.

Giddey and Vucevic are some of the worst starters in the entire league at their positions.

Pickled Prunes wrote:

TheCage4 wrote:It’s a giant leap of faith to believe Ball will come back in any capacity to contribute. Even if he’s 100% healthy, without set back, the amount of time to readjust to the game would be measurable and thus negatively impact the Bulls ability to be competitive.

Lonzo's role has been greatly overstated. He was a straw that stirred the drink, not the drink itself. Even if he comes back and is ready to stir, the drink is a little rancid at this point. Best case for the Bulls is that he shows he's healthy and can still play and then gets traded. Most likely scenario is that he remains at home and quickly begins talking about next year..

Aside from FOUR surgeries on the same knee:

1) Had first (known) arthroscopic surgery on the same knee in 2018 by the Lakers.
According to Lonzo himself, this injury is when all his problems began.

2) Had second surgery in late Jan 2022.
Heading into this he had a timeline of '4-6 weeks' recovery-- which almost immediately changed to '6-8 weeks'.

3) Had 3rd surgery (arthroscopic debridement) on Wed 9/28/22.
This was 1 day after being quoted as saying "I can't run or jump-- there’s a range from, like, 30 to 60 degrees when my knee is bent that I have no force. And I can’t catch myself. [The pain is] every day. Even going up stairs and stuff, it’s still painful."

4) Had a 4th(!) surgery in March 2023.
Per Lonzo himself: this involved meniscus transplant from a donor, bone allograft, and new cartilage inserted into his same left knee.

Also aside from thinking how few pros in any major sport have overcome this:
Missing 2 full seasons
And having nagging knee problems in the 4 years he did play: 52, 47, 63, 55, 35 games

... The most damning thing for me was Lonzo saying <2 months ago that he was "only 70% recovered" -- January will be SEVEN years since he first tore the meniscus and opening night will be more than 18 months since his last surgery.

If he could contribute even 20 mins per night to an NBA team for a full season it would be a bigger long odds success than Grant Hill's career. Unheard of.

puja21 wrote:

Pickled Prunes wrote:

TheCage4 wrote:It’s a giant leap of faith to believe Ball will come back in any capacity to contribute. Even if he’s 100% healthy, without set back, the amount of time to readjust to the game would be measurable and thus negatively impact the Bulls ability to be competitive.

Lonzo's role has been greatly overstated. He was a straw that stirred the drink, not the drink itself. Even if he comes back and is ready to stir, the drink is a little rancid at this point. Best case for the Bulls is that he shows he's healthy and can still play and then gets traded. Most likely scenario is that he remains at home and quickly begins talking about next year..

Aside from FOUR surgeries on the same knee:

1) Had first (known) arthroscopic surgery on the same knee in 2018 by the Lakers.
According to Lonzo himself, this injury is when all his problems began.

2) Had second surgery in late Jan 2022.
Heading into this he had a timeline of '4-6 weeks' recovery-- which almost immediately changed to '6-8 weeks'.

3) Had 3rd surgery (arthroscopic debridement) on Wed 9/28/22.
This was 1 day after being quoted as saying "I can't run or jump-- there’s a range from, like, 30 to 60 degrees when my knee is bent that I have no force. And I can’t catch myself. [The pain is] every day. Even going up stairs and stuff, it’s still painful."

4) Had a 4th(!) surgery in March 2023.
Per Lonzo himself: this involved meniscus transplant from a donor, bone allograft, and new cartilage inserted into his same left knee.

Also aside from thinking how few pros in any major sport have overcome this:
Missing 2 full seasons
And having nagging knee problems in the 4 years he did play: 52, 47, 63, 55, 35 games

... The most damning thing for me was Lonzo saying <2 months ago that he was "only 70% recovered" -- January will be SEVEN years since he first tore the meniscus and opening night will be more than 18 months since his last surgery.

If he could contribute even 20 mins per night to an NBA team for a full season it would be a bigger long odds success than Grant Hill's career. Unheard of.

It’s worth noting that with scant exception, meniscus injuries and treatments are only degenerative and that Lonzo’s transplant is - in essence - a regenerative procedure. In other words, I think he stands a stronger chance than Brandon Roy who basically had no meniscus left.

puja21 wrote:

Pickled Prunes wrote:

TheCage4 wrote:It’s a giant leap of faith to believe Ball will come back in any capacity to contribute. Even if he’s 100% healthy, without set back, the amount of time to readjust to the game would be measurable and thus negatively impact the Bulls ability to be competitive.

Lonzo's role has been greatly overstated. He was a straw that stirred the drink, not the drink itself. Even if he comes back and is ready to stir, the drink is a little rancid at this point. Best case for the Bulls is that he shows he's healthy and can still play and then gets traded. Most likely scenario is that he remains at home and quickly begins talking about next year..

Aside from FOUR surgeries on the same knee:

1) Had first (known) arthroscopic surgery on the same knee in 2018 by the Lakers.
According to Lonzo himself, this injury is when all his problems began.

2) Had second surgery in late Jan 2022.
Heading into this he had a timeline of '4-6 weeks' recovery-- which almost immediately changed to '6-8 weeks'.

3) Had 3rd surgery (arthroscopic debridement) on Wed 9/28/22.
This was 1 day after being quoted as saying "I can't run or jump-- there’s a range from, like, 30 to 60 degrees when my knee is bent that I have no force. And I can’t catch myself. [The pain is] every day. Even going up stairs and stuff, it’s still painful."

4) Had a 4th(!) surgery in March 2023.
Per Lonzo himself: this involved meniscus transplant from a donor, bone allograft, and new cartilage inserted into his same left knee.

Also aside from thinking how few pros in any major sport have overcome this:
Missing 2 full seasons
And having nagging knee problems in the 4 years he did play: 52, 47, 63, 55, 35 games

... The most damning thing for me was Lonzo saying <2 months ago that he was "only 70% recovered" -- January will be SEVEN years since he first tore the meniscus and opening night will be more than 18 months since his last surgery.

If he could contribute even 20 mins per night to an NBA team for a full season it would be a bigger long odds success than Grant Hill's career. Unheard of.

Terrific comment, this does not inspire a lot of hope for him ever really being able to play again. Sad, I really like his game. A lot of fun watching him play, especially on the Pelicans.

NUMBERICA wrote:

puja21 wrote:

Pickled Prunes wrote:bla bla bla

bla bla bla

It’s worth noting that with scant exception, meniscus injuries and treatments are only degenerative and that Lonzo’s transplant is - in essence - a regenerative procedure. In other words, I think he stands a stronger chance than Brandon Roy who basically had no meniscus left.

It’s not just “worth noting’” it’s key. I challenge all the other posters to, without the aid of Google, name the last athlete who underwent a ‘live’ transplant & then comment on their prognosis/outcome.

We Are Groot wrote:

NUMBERICA wrote:

puja21 wrote:
bla bla bla

It’s worth noting that with scant exception, meniscus injuries and treatments are only degenerative and that Lonzo’s transplant is - in essence - a regenerative procedure. In other words, I think he stands a stronger chance than Brandon Roy who basically had no meniscus left.

It’s not just “worth noting’” it’s key. I challenge all the other posters to, without the aid of Google, name the last athlete who underwent a ‘live’ transplant & then comment on their prognosis/outcome.

Where are you seeing anyone saying live / regenerative?

Meniscus allograft (donor cartilage) is immunoprivileged-- "dead." No blood flow, no nerves.

AKA no immunosuppressant drugs required

Not many people understand this: 100% of even hair transplants are the patient's own hair -- because the immune system would immediately attack the follicles as foreign bodies

This is not regenerative.

It's also "more than worth noting" that Ball has literally 7 years of scar tissue to overcome -- more than half of that coming in 3.5 consecutive years of professional basketball, where he repeatedly missed 20-30 games annually due to recurring reinjury of the same site.
^All this came between the initial tear but before the last 2 surgeries (and 2 full seasons off) even happened.

The degree of (repeated) injury is every bit as unprecedented as the surgery is uncharted (by pro basketball players)

NUMBERICA wrote: In other words, I think he stands a stronger chance than Brandon Roy who basically had no meniscus left.

We've been down this road before too -- arguing it's "better" than the guys who suffered before him.

On a Sep 2022 episode of Lavar's reality show "Ball in the Family," Lonzo admitted he took the shortcut surgery in Jan 2018:

“They’ve got to take it out..they said they could repair it but it would take me six months to get back. But, if they just take it out it will only be six weeks.”

^Meaning they opted for a partial meniscus removal to cut out the damaged piece of the meniscus (“a partial meniscectomy”) rather than stitching the meniscus back together (“a meniscal repair”)

And there were Laker blogs and radio shows trying to reassure everyone:

"Doctor’s note: This procedure is NOT what Dwyane Wade had in college, resulting in numerous knee problems down the line. If you think of the meniscus like a piece of cheese between two buns, Lonzo had a little moldy piece removed whereas Wade had the entire thing taken out."

"All in all, it’s very likely that the choice of partially removing the meniscus (a partial meniscectomy) rather than repairing it won’t pose much of an issue."

Since it looks like I'm piling on a guy while he's down, I'll add I'm rooting hard for him to be the exception. I love his game and his attitude. Absolute great kid.

But the evidence is overwhelming that he's going to join IT2 and John Wall and the outside looking in.

We Are Groot wrote:

NUMBERICA wrote:

puja21 wrote:
bla bla bla

It’s worth noting that with scant exception, meniscus injuries and treatments are only degenerative and that Lonzo’s transplant is - in essence - a regenerative procedure. In other words, I think he stands a stronger chance than Brandon Roy who basically had no meniscus left.

I challenge all the other posters to, without the aid of Google, name the last athlete who... bla bla bla

Your comment's might sound more informed if you actually read the comments you are responding to. I was talking about Lonzo's game on the floor prior to the injury. No google required.

If you want to have a conversation with me, I'm here for that. Agree, disagree, I'm here for all of it. But take the time to actually read what I have said and come back with a thoughtful and intelligent response... If you don't think you can manage that, just take me out of the thread. It's so simple!