Lakers Want To Experiment With Two-Big Lineups

[RealGM Wiretap]

The Los Angeles Lakers recently added center Trey Jemison on a two-way contract. That addition is part of JJ Redick's interest in experimenting with more two-big lineups.

Anthony Davis has started at center all season for Los Angeles. He's rarely played alongside another big. Jaxson Hayes has been Davis' primary backup, while Christian Wood has missed the entire season to date due to injury. Christian Koloko has played a limited role off the bench. Jarred Vanderbilt has also yet to debut this season, as he recovers from leg/foot injuries.

Playing another big alongside Davis would give the Lakers a different look. However, starting another center would shift LeBron James to small forward. At this point, James is best guarding opposing big men. Redick could look at two-big lineups as a way to take some pressure off Davis in the non-James minutes.

Via Dave McMenamin/ESPN

[YourGM99]

There’s no need for an experiment. The last time both AD and Lebron were healthy and Lebron played the PG and AD played PF the lakers won a championship. Also, they had two legit 3 & D guards on the court as well.

[Pickled Prunes]

There’s no need for an experiment. The last time both AD and Lebron were healthy and Lebron played the PG and AD played PF the lakers won a championship. Also, they had two legit 3 & D guards on the court as well.

Problems with your theory:
1) Lebron was 5 years younger and could hold his own defensively against 90% of opponents. You are what you guard and there are very few PG's left in the NBA that Lebron could keep in front of him.

2) Dwight and JaVale combined for 35 MPG during the 19/20 season. During the playoffs that number shrank. Javale played a total of 68 minutes (7.6MPG) after the opening round. Dwight played a total of 182 minutes (14 MPG) after the 1st round. AD played 606 total minutes (38MPG) in that same time period. JaVale DND in the Finals and Dwight averaged 11.8 MPG, averaging <3/3/1.

JaVale started at center all year in an effort to placate AD. When games mattered and the best team had to be on the floor, AD was their center. That has only gotten more true over the past 5 seasons. Lebron is a defensive liability against faster (most) players and AD's defensive skills are wasted on the perimeter. This is just JJ falling into the same trap that the last two coaches fell into... making poor basketball decisions in an effort to get his stars to buy in.

[tigerae]

There’s no need for an experiment. The last time both AD and Lebron were healthy and Lebron played the PG and AD played PF the lakers won a championship. Also, they had two legit 3 & D guards on the court as well.

Problems with your theory:
1) Lebron was 5 years younger and could hold his own defensively against 90% of opponents. You are what you guard and there are very few PG's left in the NBA that Lebron could keep in front of him.

2) Dwight and JaVale combined for 35 MPG during the 19/20 season. During the playoffs that number shrank. Javale played a total of 68 minutes (7.6MPG) after the opening round. Dwight played a total of 182 minutes (14 MPG) after the 1st round. AD played 606 total minutes (38MPG) in that same time period. JaVale DND in the Finals and Dwight averaged 11.8 MPG, averaging <3/3/1.

JaVale started at center all year in an effort to placate AD. When games mattered and the best team had to be on the floor, AD was their center. That has only gotten more true over the past 5 seasons. Lebron is a defensive liability against faster (most) players and AD's defensive skills are wasted on the perimeter. This is just JJ falling into the same trap that the last two coaches fell into... making poor basketball decisions in an effort to get his stars to buy in.

Regardless of LBJs age, he's still playing at a very high level. The issue isn't LeBron as much as AD unable to be consistent during the playoffs and the Lakers not having a consistent 3rd scorer.

AD played his best basketball when he played at the 4. In NO with Cousins and with the Lakers when they won a championship. This "experiment" needed to actually be a thing the entire time he was here. He said it himself that he doesn't like to play the 5 and the Lakers lost twice to the Nuggets in the playoffs because AD couldn't play effectively on both ends of the floor to try and guard Jokic consistently during those series.

[arasu]

There’s no need for an experiment. The last time both AD and Lebron were healthy and Lebron played the PG and AD played PF the lakers won a championship. Also, they had two legit 3 & D guards on the court as well.

Problems with your theory:
1) Lebron was 5 years younger and could hold his own defensively against 90% of opponents. You are what you guard and there are very few PG's left in the NBA that Lebron could keep in front of him.

2) Dwight and JaVale combined for 35 MPG during the 19/20 season. During the playoffs that number shrank. Javale played a total of 68 minutes (7.6MPG) after the opening round. Dwight played a total of 182 minutes (14 MPG) after the 1st round. AD played 606 total minutes (38MPG) in that same time period. JaVale DND in the Finals and Dwight averaged 11.8 MPG, averaging <3/3/1.

JaVale started at center all year in an effort to placate AD. When games mattered and the best team had to be on the floor, AD was their center. That has only gotten more true over the past 5 seasons. Lebron is a defensive liability against faster (most) players and AD's defensive skills are wasted on the perimeter. This is just JJ falling into the same trap that the last two coaches fell into... making poor basketball decisions in an effort to get his stars to buy in.

Regardless of LBJs age, he's still playing at a very high level. The issue isn't LeBron as much as AD unable to be consistent during the playoffs and the Lakers not having a consistent 3rd scorer.

AD played his best basketball when he played at the 4. In NO with Cousins and with the Lakers when they won a championship. This "experiment" needed to actually be a thing the entire time he was here. He said it himself that he doesn't like to play the 5 and the Lakers lost twice to the Nuggets in the playoffs because AD couldn't play effectively on both ends of the floor to try and guard Jokic consistently during those series.

Unfortunately, it's LeBron. He just can't play defense anymore. That would sort of work if he goes back to point guard, like he did in 2020, in a Magic Johnson/ Steve Nash type role, while surrounded by 2 elite perimeter defenders and two elite paint protectors/rebounders. For whatever reason, the Lakers went away from that championship formula and never looked back.

[arasu]

There’s no need for an experiment. The last time both AD and Lebron were healthy and Lebron played the PG and AD played PF the lakers won a championship. Also, they had two legit 3 & D guards on the court as well.

Problems with your theory:
1) Lebron was 5 years younger and could hold his own defensively against 90% of opponents. You are what you guard and there are very few PG's left in the NBA that Lebron could keep in front of him.

2) Dwight and JaVale combined for 35 MPG during the 19/20 season. During the playoffs that number shrank. Javale played a total of 68 minutes (7.6MPG) after the opening round. Dwight played a total of 182 minutes (14 MPG) after the 1st round. AD played 606 total minutes (38MPG) in that same time period. JaVale DND in the Finals and Dwight averaged 11.8 MPG, averaging <3/3/1.

JaVale started at center all year in an effort to placate AD. When games mattered and the best team had to be on the floor, AD was their center. That has only gotten more true over the past 5 seasons. Lebron is a defensive liability against faster (most) players and AD's defensive skills are wasted on the perimeter. This is just JJ falling into the same trap that the last two coaches fell into... making poor basketball decisions in an effort to get his stars to buy in.

LeBron never guarded quick guards that year. He was already fading defensively, so they hid him behind a rotation of elite perimeter defenders AND a rotation of elite rebounder/paint protectors. That still is their best option. It's true that LeBron is worse now, but his position on offense has nothing to do with his defense.

[Pickled Prunes]

There’s no need for an experiment. The last time both AD and Lebron were healthy and Lebron played the PG and AD played PF the lakers won a championship. Also, they had two legit 3 & D guards on the court as well.

Problems with your theory:
1) Lebron was 5 years younger and could hold his own defensively against 90% of opponents. You are what you guard and there are very few PG's left in the NBA that Lebron could keep in front of him.

2) Dwight and JaVale combined for 35 MPG during the 19/20 season. During the playoffs that number shrank. Javale played a total of 68 minutes (7.6MPG) after the opening round. Dwight played a total of 182 minutes (14 MPG) after the 1st round. AD played 606 total minutes (38MPG) in that same time period. JaVale DND in the Finals and Dwight averaged 11.8 MPG, averaging <3/3/1.

JaVale started at center all year in an effort to placate AD. When games mattered and the best team had to be on the floor, AD was their center. That has only gotten more true over the past 5 seasons. Lebron is a defensive liability against faster (most) players and AD's defensive skills are wasted on the perimeter. This is just JJ falling into the same trap that the last two coaches fell into... making poor basketball decisions in an effort to get his stars to buy in.

Regardless of LBJs age, he's still playing at a very high level. The issue isn't LeBron as much as AD unable to be consistent during the playoffs and the Lakers not having a consistent 3rd scorer.

AD played his best basketball when he played at the 4. In NO with Cousins and with the Lakers when they won a championship. This "experiment" needed to actually be a thing the entire time he was here. He said it himself that he doesn't like to play the 5 and the Lakers lost twice to the Nuggets in the playoffs because AD couldn't play effectively on both ends of the floor to try and guard Jokic consistently during those series.

Yeah, you didn't read my post.
1) Lebron can not guard wings anymore. He just can't. His ability to put up counting stats is not in question. The question is: If you move him to SF or PG, can he guard his position. The answer is ... not a chance!

2) AD played 90% of his minutes at center when they won the championship. They started him at PF and three minutes in he was playing center. It doesn't matter what the box score says. He was their center.

[Pickled Prunes]

There’s no need for an experiment. The last time both AD and Lebron were healthy and Lebron played the PG and AD played PF the lakers won a championship. Also, they had two legit 3 & D guards on the court as well.

Problems with your theory:
1) Lebron was 5 years younger and could hold his own defensively against 90% of opponents. You are what you guard and there are very few PG's left in the NBA that Lebron could keep in front of him.

2) Dwight and JaVale combined for 35 MPG during the 19/20 season. During the playoffs that number shrank. Javale played a total of 68 minutes (7.6MPG) after the opening round. Dwight played a total of 182 minutes (14 MPG) after the 1st round. AD played 606 total minutes (38MPG) in that same time period. JaVale DND in the Finals and Dwight averaged 11.8 MPG, averaging <3/3/1.

JaVale started at center all year in an effort to placate AD. When games mattered and the best team had to be on the floor, AD was their center. That has only gotten more true over the past 5 seasons. Lebron is a defensive liability against faster (most) players and AD's defensive skills are wasted on the perimeter. This is just JJ falling into the same trap that the last two coaches fell into... making poor basketball decisions in an effort to get his stars to buy in.

LeBron never guarded quick guards that year. He was already fading defensively, so they hid him behind a rotation of elite perimeter defenders AND a rotation of elite rebounder/paint protectors. That still is their best option. It's true that LeBron is worse now, but his position on offense has nothing to do with his defense.

You're right, and that is my point. There has to be someone on the court that Lebron can effectively guard. In most cases, that is a PF. Imagine a lineup of Lebron, AD, any two elite perimeter defenders and Valanciunas (for example). Now find a team with a winning record that you think that lineup is going to work against defensively. It doesn't exist.

At this point, AD and Lebron is a two-big lineup. AD, Lebron and Valanciunas would be a great three-big rotation, but not all on the floor at the same time. They could do the 19/20 thing and start a center for the tip, but the only time it actually makes sense to move AD to PF is while Lebron is on the bench.

Just in case you have not seen the stats:
Lebron is dead last on his team in Total +/- (-143) and 12th on his team in +/- per 100 possessions (-5.4)

He's still great offensively (24/8/9) but he's getting trucked on the defensive end. Bringing in a starting center will magnify that.

[arasu]

Problems with your theory:
1) Lebron was 5 years younger and could hold his own defensively against 90% of opponents. You are what you guard and there are very few PG's left in the NBA that Lebron could keep in front of him.

2) Dwight and JaVale combined for 35 MPG during the 19/20 season. During the playoffs that number shrank. Javale played a total of 68 minutes (7.6MPG) after the opening round. Dwight played a total of 182 minutes (14 MPG) after the 1st round. AD played 606 total minutes (38MPG) in that same time period. JaVale DND in the Finals and Dwight averaged 11.8 MPG, averaging <3/3/1.

JaVale started at center all year in an effort to placate AD. When games mattered and the best team had to be on the floor, AD was their center. That has only gotten more true over the past 5 seasons. Lebron is a defensive liability against faster (most) players and AD's defensive skills are wasted on the perimeter. This is just JJ falling into the same trap that the last two coaches fell into... making poor basketball decisions in an effort to get his stars to buy in.

LeBron never guarded quick guards that year. He was already fading defensively, so they hid him behind a rotation of elite perimeter defenders AND a rotation of elite rebounder/paint protectors. That still is their best option. It's true that LeBron is worse now, but his position on offense has nothing to do with his defense.

You're right, and that is my point. There has to be someone on the court that Lebron can effectively guard. In most cases, that is a PF. Imagine a lineup of Lebron, AD, any two elite perimeter defenders and Valanciunas (for example). Now find a team with a winning record that you think that lineup is going to work against defensively. It doesn't exist.

At this point, AD and Lebron is a two-big lineup. AD, Lebron and Valanciunas would be a great three-big rotation, but not all on the floor at the same time. They could do the 19/20 thing and start a center for the tip, but the only time it actually makes sense to move AD to PF is while Lebron is on the bench.

Just in case you have not seen the stats:
Lebron is dead last on his team in Total +/- (-143) and 12th on his team in +/- per 100 possessions (-5.4)

He's still great offensively (24/8/9) but he's getting trucked on the defensive end. Bringing in a starting center will magnify that.

An elite rim protector would be somewhat doable. Better yet, a player who can play "center" but defend wings. Or if Reaves magically turned into Caruso. Many "bigs" are too much for LeBron too, so he really can't hide. Gone are the days of stiff bigs on every team on whom weak defenders could hide. Maybe with half of the teams that still works. LeBron is positionless in a negative sense on that side. A super versatile 4 defenders around him could plug any hole. Vando was that guy briefly when he was healthy, guarding the point of attack while also helping onto whichever player LeBron was "guarding". As an example, a front court of Vando, AD, and Myles Turner (as the nominal 5) could work with a backcourt of LeBron at point and a plus defender like Christie at SG. That unit would have just enough spacing and defense to be elite. A non-shooting vertical spacer (rim runner) in Turner's place (like in 2020) could work too, maybe even better if the 5 was excellent in rebounding, blocking, and pick and roll finishing. Having Reaves next to LeBron instead of Christie would probably be too much for Vando to cover normally (guarding 3 guys at once), but against many matchups Reaves could be adequate. Of course, Vando only did that for the Lakers for about 30+ games going on 2 seasons. So that's all hypothetical. DFS was acquired to fill some of Vando's wing/big defense, but he's just not capable of elite D on guards, and can't double up and guard two at once like Vando did

[arasu]

Problems with your theory:
1) Lebron was 5 years younger and could hold his own defensively against 90% of opponents. You are what you guard and there are very few PG's left in the NBA that Lebron could keep in front of him.

2) Dwight and JaVale combined for 35 MPG during the 19/20 season. During the playoffs that number shrank. Javale played a total of 68 minutes (7.6MPG) after the opening round. Dwight played a total of 182 minutes (14 MPG) after the 1st round. AD played 606 total minutes (38MPG) in that same time period. JaVale DND in the Finals and Dwight averaged 11.8 MPG, averaging <3/3/1.

JaVale started at center all year in an effort to placate AD. When games mattered and the best team had to be on the floor, AD was their center. That has only gotten more true over the past 5 seasons. Lebron is a defensive liability against faster (most) players and AD's defensive skills are wasted on the perimeter. This is just JJ falling into the same trap that the last two coaches fell into... making poor basketball decisions in an effort to get his stars to buy in.

Regardless of LBJs age, he's still playing at a very high level. The issue isn't LeBron as much as AD unable to be consistent during the playoffs and the Lakers not having a consistent 3rd scorer.

AD played his best basketball when he played at the 4. In NO with Cousins and with the Lakers when they won a championship. This "experiment" needed to actually be a thing the entire time he was here. He said it himself that he doesn't like to play the 5 and the Lakers lost twice to the Nuggets in the playoffs because AD couldn't play effectively on both ends of the floor to try and guard Jokic consistently during those series.

Yeah, you didn't read my post.
1) Lebron can not guard wings anymore. He just can't. His ability to put up counting stats is not in question. The question is: If you move him to SF or PG, can he guard his position. The answer is ... not a chance!

2) AD played 90% of his minutes at center when they won the championship. They started him at PF and three minutes in he was playing center. It doesn't matter what the box score says. He was their center.

[arasu]

Regardless of LBJs age, he's still playing at a very high level. The issue isn't LeBron as much as AD unable to be consistent during the playoffs and the Lakers not having a consistent 3rd scorer.

AD played his best basketball when he played at the 4. In NO with Cousins and with the Lakers when they won a championship. This "experiment" needed to actually be a thing the entire time he was here. He said it himself that he doesn't like to play the 5 and the Lakers lost twice to the Nuggets in the playoffs because AD couldn't play effectively on both ends of the floor to try and guard Jokic consistently during those series.

Yeah, you didn't read my post.
1) Lebron can not guard wings anymore. He just can't. His ability to put up counting stats is not in question. The question is: If you move him to SF or PG, can he guard his position. The answer is ... not a chance!

2) AD played 90% of his minutes at center when they won the championship. They started him at PF and three minutes in he was playing center. It doesn't matter what the box score says. He was their center.

Your "90%" number for 2020 is way off. AD played 90%+ center in the first round against the small ball Rockets. Against the Nuggets he played about 60% power forward, with Dwight and JaVale getting full starter type minutes combined. Those playoffs as a whole were about 40% power forward for AD. Just add up the minutes. Your 90% figure isn't possible.

[Pickled Prunes]

Yeah, you didn't read my post.
1) Lebron can not guard wings anymore. He just can't. His ability to put up counting stats is not in question. The question is: If you move him to SF or PG, can he guard his position. The answer is ... not a chance!

2) AD played 90% of his minutes at center when they won the championship. They started him at PF and three minutes in he was playing center. It doesn't matter what the box score says. He was their center.

Your "90%" number for 2020 is way off. AD played 90%+ center in the first round against the small ball Rockets. Against the Nuggets he played about 60% power forward, with Dwight and JaVale getting full starter type minutes combined. Those playoffs as a whole were about 40% power forward for AD. Just add up the minutes. Your 90% figure isn't possible.

JaVale didn't play in the Finals and Dwight averaged 11.8 MPG and didn't play a minute in the closeout game. AD was the center for everything but the tip off. In the CF, Dwight and JaVale combined for <28MPG. IN the CSF, Dwight played 2 games, JaVale played 4 games and they combined for a total of 45.7 minutes. AD was their full time center. The first round was the only series where they pretended AD was a PF.

The idea that LAL are better when AD is at PF is a false narrative. When winning mattered, AD was at center. It is very similar to how Tim Duncan didn't want to be a center. The Spurs would start stiffs like Tiago Splitter, Fabricio Oberto, old Boris Diaw, Matt Bonner, etc. They even listed Robert Horry as center just so that Duncan didn't get listed as a center... but he played center on both ends of the floor. The difference is that Duncan's costars, Manu and Parker, were guards and the move didn't put them out of position. AD isn't the reason the Lakers can't bring in a starting center. Lebron can't guard on the wing anymore. He's been getting cooked all season at PF. He's got no shot!

Duncan presumably didn't want to be a center because there was only one starting center spot on the all-star team. That spot was going to Shaq or Yao. That is no longer the case. I have no idea what AD's deal is, but it isn't about team success.

[Pickled Prunes]

LeBron never guarded quick guards that year. He was already fading defensively, so they hid him behind a rotation of elite perimeter defenders AND a rotation of elite rebounder/paint protectors. That still is their best option. It's true that LeBron is worse now, but his position on offense has nothing to do with his defense.

You're right, and that is my point. There has to be someone on the court that Lebron can effectively guard. In most cases, that is a PF. Imagine a lineup of Lebron, AD, any two elite perimeter defenders and Valanciunas (for example). Now find a team with a winning record that you think that lineup is going to work against defensively. It doesn't exist.

At this point, AD and Lebron is a two-big lineup. AD, Lebron and Valanciunas would be a great three-big rotation, but not all on the floor at the same time. They could do the 19/20 thing and start a center for the tip, but the only time it actually makes sense to move AD to PF is while Lebron is on the bench.

Just in case you have not seen the stats:
Lebron is dead last on his team in Total +/- (-143) and 12th on his team in +/- per 100 possessions (-5.4)

He's still great offensively (24/8/9) but he's getting trucked on the defensive end. Bringing in a starting center will magnify that.

An elite rim protector would be somewhat doable. Better yet, a player who can play "center" but defend wings. Or if Reaves magically turned into Caruso. Many "bigs" are too much for LeBron too, so he really can't hide. Gone are the days of stiff bigs on every team on whom weak defenders could hide. Maybe with half of the teams that still works. LeBron is positionless in a negative sense on that side. A super versatile 4 defenders around him could plug any hole. Vando was that guy briefly when he was healthy, guarding the point of attack while also helping onto whichever player LeBron was "guarding". As an example, a front court of Vando, AD, and Myles Turner (as the nominal 5) could work with a backcourt of LeBron at point and a plus defender like Christie at SG. That unit would have just enough spacing and defense to be elite. A non-shooting vertical spacer (rim runner) in Turner's place (like in 2020) could work too, maybe even better if the 5 was excellent in rebounding, blocking, and pick and roll finishing. Having Reaves next to LeBron instead of Christie would probably be too much for Vando to cover normally (guarding 3 guys at once), but against many matchups Reaves could be adequate. Of course, Vando only did that for the Lakers for about 30+ games going on 2 seasons. So that's all hypothetical. DFS was acquired to fill some of Vando's wing/big defense, but he's just not capable of elite D on guards, and can't double up and guard two at once like Vando did

Sure, if Turner is available, they should go get him, but they would be better off with a Siakam type player. IND is rolling right now, so I don't see them breaking it up. How about John Collins? He could start at "center" but can guard wings, can shoot and seems comfortable coming off the bench depending on matchup.