Re-Signing Kyle Lowry As The Final Piece For Toronto

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Re-Signing Kyle Lowry As The Final Piece For Toronto 

Post#1 » by RealGM Articles » Sun Jul 6, 2014 5:42 pm

Re-signing Kyle Lowry was one of the final pieces of the puzzle for the Toronto Raptors. With Lowry under contract for the next four years, the Raptors have every one of their starting five locked up for the indefinite future. They have a good young player at every position and the 28-year old Lowry is the oldest of the group. This is a team on the rise, regardless of how much star power they have.


Bryan Colangelo made a lot of questionable decisions in his tenure in Toronto, but he left a pretty full cupboard for Masai Ujiri. The only thing Ujiri had to do was give away some of Colangelo's mistakes. Once he moved Andrea Bargnani and Rudy Gay, the Raptors were ready to take the next step. They have two-way starters at every position - there aren't many weak links on either side of the ball. 


As soon as they traded Gay, their season turned around. They went 6-12 with Gay and 42-24 without him, a 50+ win pace. They lost in the first round, but it was about as close of a loss as you could possibly have - losing a Game 7 on their home floor in the final seconds. It was a learning experience for a young team that is only getting better and will have the benefit of multiple years of continuity between their best players.


Lowry is the only one in his prime. Amir Johnson is 26, DeMar DeRozan is 24, Terrence Ross is 22 and Jonas Valanciunas is 21. They have a young roster with plenty of room for internal improvement - this should be the start of a strong 3-5 year run for them. They remind me a lot of the 2010-11 Indiana Pacers, who won 37 games and lost to the Chicago Bulls in the first round. 


The next offseason, they signed David West and traded for George Hill, rounding out their starting five and giving them a group that could grow together over the next few seasons. They went from 37 wins to 42 in 2011, 49 in 2012 and 56 in 2013. They didn't need to make any major moves - they just relied on internal improvement every season. Toronto is at the beginning of that process.


The common knock on the Raptors is their lack of star power, but that will change with time. As they win more games, they will get more All-Star appearances. You already saw it happen this year - DeRozan didn't have statistics that were much better than Aaron Afflalo or Lance Stephenson, but he was the leading scorer on a division-leading team that needed at least one All-Star. A few more wins would have ensured an All-Star berth for Lowry as well. 


They have a lot of upside on the roster too. Lowry and DeRozan get most of the attention because they have the ball in their hands, but Ross and Valancinuas have the potential to be All-Star caliber players as well. They are lottery picks with elite tools for their position and they are both still very young. It will be like Lance Stephenson in Indiana - as they get better, the team will get better. 


At 6'6 190, Ross is not quite as big as George, but he's just as athletic and just as skilled. He's an elite shooter and an elite athlete who can handle the ball, so it's pretty easy for him to create a shot. The important number with Ross isn't the 11 points per game, it's the 9 field goal attempts. He took 29 shots to get 51 against the Los Angeles Clippers - he only got that many shots because DeRozan was injured.


Valanciunas is the key to the whole puzzle. Center is the hardest position to find a two-way player in the league - there are just not many guys who can play high-level interior defense and still be an effective player on offense. He's not quite as big as Hibbert, but he's more athletic and he's much more skilled. He already shoots 53% from the field and 76% from the free-throw line. 


In three years, Lowry will be 31, Ross will be 26, DeRozan will be 27, Johnson will be 30 and Valanciunas will be 25. All five of those guys will be under contract at the same time, which doesn't happen all that often. Lowry, as the oldest player in their core, is the David West in this scenario. In three years, they might have to start thinking about replacing him, but the rest will be near their peak. 


If you don't have a transcendent superstar like LeBron James or Kevin Durant, timing is the key to being an elite team. A lot of times, injuries can derail a group. The Pacers were able to survive the loss of Danny Granger because of Stephenson. Contracts happen too. Stephenson many end up leaving for more money in the off-season. For the time being, everything is lining up in Toronto.


Like Indiana, they will need to continue to move pieces around on their bench over the next few seasons.


Greivis Vasquez and Patrick Patterson both play important roles on this team, but they are not irreplaceable. The good news is Masai Ujiri has a good track record of accumulating talent in Denver. Bruno Caboclo was an out of nowhere pick, but Lou Williams should be a good addition and DeAndre Daniels has more upside than most second-round picks. 


Durant in 2016 is probably not going to happen, but they can be an elite team without him. As long as everyone stays healthy, the Raptors should be one of the most complete teams in the league. If you have a player who can contribute on offense and defense at every position, you will have a good team. All the pieces are in place in Toronto - it's not any more complicated than that.

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Re: Re-Signing Kyle Lowry As The Final Piece For Toronto 

Post#2 » by johnnystamos » Sun Jul 6, 2014 7:33 pm

Lowry is the only one in his prime. Amir Johnson is 26, DeMar DeRozan is 24, Terrence Ross is 22 and Jonas Valanciunas is 21.

Most of these statements are simply false: Johnson is 27, Ross is 23, and Valanciunas is 22. And to say a nine-year veteran isn't yet his prime... when do players enter their prime, their 13th year?

In three years, Lowry will be 31, Ross will be 26, DeRozan will be 27, Johnson will be 30 and Valanciunas will be 25. All five of those guys will be under contract at the same time, which doesn't happen all that often.


Again, multiple falsities. Johnson's contract expires after this season and Ross and Valanciunas's contracts expire two years from now. Is the author living in some RealGM fantasy world where he has already worked out contract extensions assuring they will all be under contract three years from now when the majority of the lineup he is talking about isn't even under contract two years from now?



Can RealGM seriously not hire an editor to make sure that articles built around pointless lies aren't featured on the site?
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Re: Re-Signing Kyle Lowry As The Final Piece For Toronto 

Post#3 » by killkenny » Sun Jul 6, 2014 8:02 pm

johnnystamos wrote:
Lowry is the only one in his prime. Amir Johnson is 26, DeMar DeRozan is 24, Terrence Ross is 22 and Jonas Valanciunas is 21.

Most of these statements are simply false: Johnson is 27, Ross is 23, and Valanciunas is 22. And to say a nine-year veteran isn't yet his prime... when do players enter their prime, their 13th year?

In three years, Lowry will be 31, Ross will be 26, DeRozan will be 27, Johnson will be 30 and Valanciunas will be 25. All five of those guys will be under contract at the same time, which doesn't happen all that often.


Again, multiple falsities. Johnson's contract expires after this season and Ross and Valanciunas's contracts expire two years from now. Is the author living in some RealGM fantasy world where he has already worked out contract extensions assuring they will all be under contract three years from now when the majority of the lineup he is talking about isn't even under contract two years from now?



Can RealGM seriously not hire an editor to make sure that articles built around pointless lies aren't featured on the site?


Johnson is as good as gone after (and possibly during) this season, considering the pay raise he's going to command as a UFA and the fact we have Patterson, an acceptable replacement, signed for the next two years after that. Tjarks doesn't know what he's talking about if he thinks Amir figures into this team's long-term plans. And as you pointed out, Amir is a very old 27, having been in the pros since he was 18. We're starting to see the toll that extra mileage is having on Johnson, in terms of injuries, etc.

Not to mention Derozan can opt out after 2015-16, which he is almost guaranteed to do given how relatively underpaid he will be (on this FA market) if he maintains 18-20ppg.
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Re: Re-Signing Kyle Lowry As The Final Piece For Toronto 

Post#4 » by SHFT » Sun Jul 6, 2014 8:45 pm

killkenny wrote:Johnson is as good as gone after (and possibly during) this season, considering the pay raise he's going to command as a UFA and the fact we have Patterson, an acceptable replacement, signed for the next two years after that. Tjarks doesn't know what he's talking about if he thinks Amir figures into this team's long-term plans. And as you pointed out, Amir is a very old 27, having been in the pros since he was 18. We're starting to see the toll that extra mileage is having on Johnson, in terms of injuries, etc.

Not to mention Derozan can opt out after 2015-16, which he is almost guaranteed to do given how relatively underpaid he will be (on this FA market) if he maintains 18-20ppg.


TBH I think we can sign him on the cheap as backup PF due to the fact he has so much mileage and weak ankles. But Amir seems like the kind of person you want to keep long term, even after he is done playing. Rebounding coach? Something like that maybe. Also, Amir loves this city and the city definitely loves him. He seems like the kind of person to take a "hometown" discount to stick around provided we can put a winner on the floor.

IF he is re signed it would be much less than what he is being paid right now or you are correct I would let him walk.
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Re: Re-Signing Kyle Lowry As The Final Piece For Toronto 

Post#5 » by Tim_W » Sun Jul 6, 2014 9:00 pm

A few problems with this article, apart from the factual errors already mentioned.

First of all the article says the re-signing of Lowry is the final piece. The final piece to what? Certainly not a contender, because they're still several pieces away from that, and the article even alludes to that, comparing the current Raptors with the Pacers BEFORE David West and George Hill.

The comparison of Terrence Ross to Paul George is ridiculous. Ross is most definitely NOT as skilled as George. It's not even close. George is a high IQ player with better ball handling, rebounding, passing and defensive skills. Ross is a good three point shooter, though.

Comparing Ross to George would be akin to comparing DeRozan to Kobe. Yes, there are a few basic similarities, but there's such a major chasm in terms of talent that only an idiot would say they are similar.

And Ross is only a year younger than George, as well.

And the ONLY reason Indiana is where they are is because George developed into the All NBA player that he became. It's how they were able to overcome the sudden decline of Danny Granger.

And while I certainly like Valanciunas, he's only more skilled offensively than Hibbert. Hibbert, for all his flaws, is a game-changing defensive player. Valanciunas still has a long ways to go to be a good defender, and won't ever have the same impact Hibbert does on the defensive end.

The Raptors are a nice, young team, but they've got a long ways to go to become an elite team, and part of that needs to include either a major leap in development by one of the younger players, or adding an All NBA calibre player from outside.

Of course, any team with a modicum of talent in the East has a chance to do some damage in the playoffs because of such a dearth of good teams. But that doesn't make them elite. It just highlights how bad the Eastern Conference is.
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Re: Re-Signing Kyle Lowry As The Final Piece For Toronto 

Post#6 » by johnnystamos » Sun Jul 6, 2014 11:52 pm

Tim_W wrote:A few problems with this article, apart from the factual errors already mentioned.

First of all the article says the re-signing of Lowry is the final piece. The final piece to what? Certainly not a contender, because they're still several pieces away from that, and the article even alludes to that, comparing the current Raptors with the Pacers BEFORE David West and George Hill.

The comparison of Terrence Ross to Paul George is ridiculous. Ross is most definitely NOT as skilled as George. It's not even close. George is a high IQ player with better ball handling, rebounding, passing and defensive skills. Ross is a good three point shooter, though.

Comparing Ross to George would be akin to comparing DeRozan to Kobe. Yes, there are a few basic similarities, but there's such a major chasm in terms of talent that only an idiot would say they are similar.

And Ross is only a year younger than George, as well.

And the ONLY reason Indiana is where they are is because George developed into the All NBA player that he became. It's how they were able to overcome the sudden decline of Danny Granger.

And while I certainly like Valanciunas, he's only more skilled offensively than Hibbert. Hibbert, for all his flaws, is a game-changing defensive player. Valanciunas still has a long ways to go to be a good defender, and won't ever have the same impact Hibbert does on the defensive end.

The Raptors are a nice, young team, but they've got a long ways to go to become an elite team, and part of that needs to include either a major leap in development by one of the younger players, or adding an All NBA calibre player from outside.

Of course, any team with a modicum of talent in the East has a chance to do some damage in the playoffs because of such a dearth of good teams. But that doesn't make them elite. It just highlights how bad the Eastern Conference is.


I was going to say a lot of this stuff, too, but didn't have the energy after having to correct guys' ages and contracts. But yeah I agree with most of this.

I don't necessarily think a superstar needs to be acquired or one of their players needs to take a 'leap' forward though because, as the author pointed out, the team was playing at a 50+ win pace after the Gay trade (52 actually.) So with continued incremental improvements, which most of the main players have shown themselves capable of already, and more time playing and practicing together, it wouldn't seem like a stretch for the team to pump out multiple high-50s win seasons. Now I don't know if this is some huge achievement (and we certainly don't know what the goal for this team would be since the author talks about the team being one step away but doesn't say what it's one step away from) but it is still pretty good and would be the best run the franchise has ever had. (Toronto actually had it's best winning percentage ever this year so even another year or two in the high-40s wins would arguably be a big accomplishment, though that's sort of pathetic and I think they can do much better than that.)
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Re: Re-Signing Kyle Lowry As The Final Piece For Toronto 

Post#7 » by Island Hoopster » Sun Jul 6, 2014 11:58 pm

For those looking for facts I will give you one. The Raptors had the best record in the eastern conference after the Gay trade. After a 6-12 start they went 42-22. That's right fact check me, better than Miami and Indiana. There is every reason to believe with inner growth they can continue to improve. For the last 3/4's of the 2013-2014 NBA season they had the best record in the eastern conference. Is this Toronto Raptor team in the top 5 no. They were ranked 9th in both offensive and defensive efficiency to close the season. Tjarks optimism is well founded.
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Re: Re-Signing Kyle Lowry As The Final Piece For Toronto 

Post#8 » by Tim_W » Mon Jul 7, 2014 12:20 am

Island Hoopster wrote:For those looking for facts I will give you one. The Raptors had the best record in the eastern conference after the Gay trade. After a 6-12 start they went 42-22. That's right fact check me, better than Miami and Indiana. There is every reason to believe with inner growth they can continue to improve. For the last 3/4's of the 2013-2014 NBA season they had the best record in the eastern conference. Is this Toronto Raptor team in the top 5 no. They were ranked 9th in both offensive and defensive efficiency to close the season. Tjarks optimism is well founded.


These types of records can often be misleading. Especially in the East. The Nets had one of the five best records in the league after their bad start, but that didn't make them elite, even with their veteran talent. And as I said before, the Eastern Conference is so devoid of talent that Eastern teams' win totals are actually inflated. The Raptors were 34-18 against the East and 16-14 against the West.

If the Raptors were in the West, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs, and that's not even taking into consideration the tougher schedule they would have had to play.

The Raptors are certainly a team on the rise, but they're still a long ways off from being a real contender. If Kyle Lowry and DeMar DeRozan are your two best players, you're not even close to an elite team.
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Re: Re-Signing Kyle Lowry As The Final Piece For Toronto 

Post#9 » by The Watcher » Mon Jul 7, 2014 1:21 am

Tim_W wrote:
Island Hoopster wrote:For those looking for facts I will give you one. The Raptors had the best record in the eastern conference after the Gay trade. After a 6-12 start they went 42-22. That's right fact check me, better than Miami and Indiana. There is every reason to believe with inner growth they can continue to improve. For the last 3/4's of the 2013-2014 NBA season they had the best record in the eastern conference. Is this Toronto Raptor team in the top 5 no. They were ranked 9th in both offensive and defensive efficiency to close the season. Tjarks optimism is well founded.


These types of records can often be misleading. Especially in the East. The Nets had one of the five best records in the league after their bad start, but that didn't make them elite, even with their veteran talent. And as I said before, the Eastern Conference is so devoid of talent that Eastern teams' win totals are actually inflated. The Raptors were 34-18 against the East and 16-14 against the West.

If the Raptors were in the West, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs, and that's not even taking into consideration the tougher schedule they would have had to play.

The Raptors are certainly a team on the rise, but they're still a long ways off from being a real contender. If Kyle Lowry and DeMar DeRozan are your two best players, you're not even close to an elite team.


Troll much?

Please go away. Troll.
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Re: Re-Signing Kyle Lowry As The Final Piece For Toronto 

Post#10 » by Tim_W » Mon Jul 7, 2014 3:00 am

The Watcher wrote:
Tim_W wrote:
Island Hoopster wrote:For those looking for facts I will give you one. The Raptors had the best record in the eastern conference after the Gay trade. After a 6-12 start they went 42-22. That's right fact check me, better than Miami and Indiana. There is every reason to believe with inner growth they can continue to improve. For the last 3/4's of the 2013-2014 NBA season they had the best record in the eastern conference. Is this Toronto Raptor team in the top 5 no. They were ranked 9th in both offensive and defensive efficiency to close the season. Tjarks optimism is well founded.


These types of records can often be misleading. Especially in the East. The Nets had one of the five best records in the league after their bad start, but that didn't make them elite, even with their veteran talent. And as I said before, the Eastern Conference is so devoid of talent that Eastern teams' win totals are actually inflated. The Raptors were 34-18 against the East and 16-14 against the West.

If the Raptors were in the West, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs, and that's not even taking into consideration the tougher schedule they would have had to play.

The Raptors are certainly a team on the rise, but they're still a long ways off from being a real contender. If Kyle Lowry and DeMar DeRozan are your two best players, you're not even close to an elite team.


Troll much?

Please go away. Troll.


Just because you don't like what I'm saying doesn't mean I'm trolling. And I'm certainly not wrong about the Eastern Conference.
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Re: Re-Signing Kyle Lowry As The Final Piece For Toronto 

Post#11 » by Pedro » Mon Jul 7, 2014 4:37 am

This was just another poorly written article approved by RealGM. Im with the general consensus that this article is very inaccurate in multiple ways.

- Ross is basically just a shooter & scorer with little else while Paul George is a very solid all-around two-way player. This waqs just one of the many poor player comparisons.
- Be reminded the Pacers didnt "survive" after Grangers departure. They played their worse ball regardless of Stephensons play after Granger was traded. Had Atlanta even known how to play mildly consistent they wouldve beaten Indy in the first round, and nearly did.
- Valanciunas being compared to Hibbert is a joke. His last name was also misspelled. They play totally differently, although both are inconsistent, and Jonas has never been noted for his defense while Hibbert has his moments.
- Amir Johnson doesnt even get legitimate starter minutes in their rotation, so how is he so vital? He's a solid player but not the least bit irreplaceable, especially when he was used less last season than the season before.
- Lowry being a "final piece" was not at all accurately explained. The entire article seems to hint that the point was to elude to Torontos youth having a lot of potential.
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Re: Re-Signing Kyle Lowry As The Final Piece For Toronto 

Post#12 » by CR Reina » Mon Jul 7, 2014 5:39 am

johnnystamos wrote:
Lowry is the only one in his prime. Amir Johnson is 26, DeMar DeRozan is 24, Terrence Ross is 22 and Jonas Valanciunas is 21.

Most of these statements are simply false: Johnson is 27, Ross is 23, and Valanciunas is 22. And to say a nine-year veteran isn't yet his prime... when do players enter their prime, their 13th year?

In three years, Lowry will be 31, Ross will be 26, DeRozan will be 27, Johnson will be 30 and Valanciunas will be 25. All five of those guys will be under contract at the same time, which doesn't happen all that often.


Again, multiple falsities. Johnson's contract expires after this season and Ross and Valanciunas's contracts expire two years from now. Is the author living in some RealGM fantasy world where he has already worked out contract extensions assuring they will all be under contract three years from now when the majority of the lineup he is talking about isn't even under contract two years from now?



Can RealGM seriously not hire an editor to make sure that articles built around pointless lies aren't featured on the site?


Those are the "ages" the players just finished the past season playing under.

Valanciunas doesn't become an RFA until 2016, so he's not going anywhere unless the Raptors allow it to happen.

We've changed "under contract" to "likely under contract".
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Re: Re-Signing Kyle Lowry As The Final Piece For Toronto 

Post#13 » by ebrian » Mon Jul 7, 2014 11:07 am

Regardless of how skewed the record might be due to a weak Eastern Conference, the gist of the article holds true. And the reason for that isn't so much about "let's follow Indiana!" but more that due to the cap situation and payroll situation, they have no choice. The only way for this team to grow is internally because of the contracts that are involved.
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Re: Re-Signing Kyle Lowry As The Final Piece For Toronto 

Post#14 » by Gannet » Mon Jul 7, 2014 12:42 pm

Ross shot 39.5% from 3s for 1 season. Would need to see at least another season at that consistency before being pegged as an "elite" shooter or anything close to that. Overall FG% is poor at 42% for a slasher type guard.

Lowry is not only the oldest player of the core, he's also nearly the heaviest. A small stumpy guard like that is going to have massive weight issues by the time he hits 30.
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Re: Re-Signing Kyle Lowry As The Final Piece For Toronto 

Post#15 » by mickie » Mon Jul 7, 2014 1:36 pm

Tim_W wrote:
Island Hoopster wrote:For those looking for facts I will give you one. The Raptors had the best record in the eastern conference after the Gay trade. After a 6-12 start they went 42-22. That's right fact check me, better than Miami and Indiana. There is every reason to believe with inner growth they can continue to improve. For the last 3/4's of the 2013-2014 NBA season they had the best record in the eastern conference. Is this Toronto Raptor team in the top 5 no. They were ranked 9th in both offensive and defensive efficiency to close the season. Tjarks optimism is well founded.


These types of records can often be misleading. Especially in the East. The Nets had one of the five best records in the league after their bad start, but that didn't make them elite, even with their veteran talent. And as I said before, the Eastern Conference is so devoid of talent that Eastern teams' win totals are actually inflated. The Raptors were 34-18 against the East and 16-14 against the West.

If the Raptors were in the West, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs, and that's not even taking into consideration the tougher schedule they would have had to play.

The Raptors are certainly a team on the rise, but they're still a long ways off from being a real contender. If Kyle Lowry and DeMar DeRozan are your two best players, you're not even close to an elite team.


sick and tired of this arguement about the East being inferior. wins are wins and losses are losses. you don't hear this $hitty arguement during the Bird/Magic era, MJ/Bulls era and it's only now because of the mediocre teams in the West crying over for not making the playoffs.. booohoo.

and Tim_W... why are you so butt hurt when it comes to the Raps? get prof. help dude, seriously! :crazy:
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Re: Re-Signing Kyle Lowry As The Final Piece For Toronto 

Post#16 » by strudel forever » Mon Jul 7, 2014 1:57 pm

mickie wrote:
Tim_W wrote:
Island Hoopster wrote:For those looking for facts I will give you one. The Raptors had the best record in the eastern conference after the Gay trade. After a 6-12 start they went 42-22. That's right fact check me, better than Miami and Indiana. There is every reason to believe with inner growth they can continue to improve. For the last 3/4's of the 2013-2014 NBA season they had the best record in the eastern conference. Is this Toronto Raptor team in the top 5 no. They were ranked 9th in both offensive and defensive efficiency to close the season. Tjarks optimism is well founded.


These types of records can often be misleading. Especially in the East. The Nets had one of the five best records in the league after their bad start, but that didn't make them elite, even with their veteran talent. And as I said before, the Eastern Conference is so devoid of talent that Eastern teams' win totals are actually inflated. The Raptors were 34-18 against the East and 16-14 against the West.

If the Raptors were in the West, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs, and that's not even taking into consideration the tougher schedule they would have had to play.

The Raptors are certainly a team on the rise, but they're still a long ways off from being a real contender. If Kyle Lowry and DeMar DeRozan are your two best players, you're not even close to an elite team.


sick and tired of this arguement about the East being inferior. wins are wins and losses are losses. you don't hear this $hitty arguement during the Bird/Magic era, MJ/Bulls era and it's only now because of the mediocre teams in the West crying over for not making the playoffs.. booohoo.

and Tim_W... why are you so butt hurt when it comes to the Raps? get prof. help dude, seriously! :crazy:


What a well thought out and constructed argument!
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Re: Re-Signing Kyle Lowry As The Final Piece For Toronto 

Post#17 » by Island Hoopster » Mon Jul 7, 2014 4:29 pm

As an FYI GM's look way beyond straight statistics for measuring the impact of a player on a team. The days of simple points and rebounds are long gone. The era of advanced metrics has brought forward a stat called adjusted real plus/ minus. It is a stat that is taken very seriously as a method to fairly measure a player's global impact to team performance. Amir Johnson is 16th in the league. That's right in the entire NBA. So if you plan on GMing from your couch you better start understanding true player impact. Masai Ujiri and many others understand what a bargain Amir Johnson is, and his impact when he is on the floor. His value is deeply respected by those who understand advanced NBA statistics. Go ask a shooter what the value of a well set screen.....or a defender beat off the dribble and have help close the hole. Amir is a stud plain and simple. There is not a single team in the NBA that would not love to have him.
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Re: Re-Signing Kyle Lowry As The Final Piece For Toronto 

Post#18 » by Tim_W » Mon Jul 7, 2014 5:32 pm

mickie wrote:sick and tired of this arguement about the East being inferior. wins are wins and losses are losses. you don't hear this $hitty arguement during the Bird/Magic era, MJ/Bulls era and it's only now because of the mediocre teams in the West crying over for not making the playoffs.. booohoo.

and Tim_W... why are you so butt hurt when it comes to the Raps? get prof. help dude, seriously! :crazy:


You may be sick of the argument that the East is incredibly weak, but that doesn't change the fact that it is. It's historically weak.

Do you know WHY you never heard the same argument during the Magic/Bird/Jordan days? Because there wasn't such a disparity between conferences.

And ironically, your argument that mediocre teams are whining because they didn't make the playoffs only highlights the fact the East is so bad. Just looking at win/loss records, 8 of the top 10 teams were from the West. If the Raptors had the same record in the West they wouldn't have made the playoffs.
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Re: Re-Signing Kyle Lowry As The Final Piece For Toronto 

Post#19 » by The Watcher » Mon Jul 7, 2014 9:09 pm

Tim_W wrote:
mickie wrote:sick and tired of this arguement about the East being inferior. wins are wins and losses are losses. you don't hear this $hitty arguement during the Bird/Magic era, MJ/Bulls era and it's only now because of the mediocre teams in the West crying over for not making the playoffs.. booohoo.

and Tim_W... why are you so butt hurt when it comes to the Raps? get prof. help dude, seriously! :crazy:


You may be sick of the argument that the East is incredibly weak, but that doesn't change the fact that it is. It's historically weak.

Do you know WHY you never heard the same argument during the Magic/Bird/Jordan days? Because there wasn't such a disparity between conferences.

And ironically, your argument that mediocre teams are whining because they didn't make the playoffs only highlights the fact the East is so bad. Just looking at win/loss records, 8 of the top 10 teams were from the West. If the Raptors had the same record in the West they wouldn't have made the playoffs.


Yes, but what exactly is your point? Regardless of how weak the conference is, there are 8 playoff spots available on each side and if a team does make it out of the historically weak Eastern conference, they have a legitimate chance at a title, even if your team is a massive underdog.

Again, what is your point? That the Raptors are not as good as their record implies? That they don't have a batch of good young players with lots of upside? I just don't understand the point you are trying to make, and that's why I think you are trolling.
raptorfan321
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Re: Re-Signing Kyle Lowry As The Final Piece For Toronto 

Post#20 » by raptorfan321 » Tue Jul 8, 2014 3:08 am

guys do ur research

take a look at raptors record against teams over .500

also take a look at derozans numbers ( 22,4,4) hes right up there with the best of them

paul george (23,6,3)

james harden (24,5,5)

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