Re: Tom Thibodeau's Shot At Getting The Exec-Coach Hybrid Right

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Tom Thibodeau's Shot At Getting The Exec-Coach Hybrid Right 

Post#1 » by RealGM Articles » Wed Jul 5, 2017 3:13 pm

The executive-coach hybrid experiment has yet to work out in the modern NBA. In theory, it’s giving the guy who most intimately understands the franchise’s roster the power to acquire precisely the talent he thinks he needs, but in reality, it’s saddling one person with two discrete jobs, each of which require around-the-clock commitment. Why would a talent for strategizing and teaching make someone good at navigating the sharper corners of the league’s collective bargaining agreement or working an opposing front office for an extra asset in a trade? And, even if it did, who has the time to do both?


Doc Rivers is too busy prepping his team for their weekly handful of games to properly scout the D-League and the end of other teams’ benches, so he has regularly tried to plug holes in the Clippers’ rotation with players who peaked in 2012. Heading into his fourth year as the decider-in-chief in Detroit, Stan Van Gundy is being urged by Pistons fans to either further empower general manager Jeff Bower or hire somebody else for the gig because Stan’s not getting it done personnel-wise. Gregg Popovich holds the Spurs’ President of Basketball Operations title, but shortly after he kicked himself downstairs to the sidelines in 1996, he installed R.C. Buford beneath him to handle San Antonio’s wheeling and dealing. Pop has been the best combination suit/tactician since Red Auerbach because he knows the jobs are impossible to do simultaneously, so he delegates ninety percent of it while retaining final say on all transactions. 


All that evidence suggests Tom Thibodeau is due for an eye-roller of a contract or a ruinous trade in the near future, but he’s been surprisingly competent as an exec-coach so far in Minnesota. While the Wolves didn’t immediately soak up all the abstruse instruction he gave them last season—as I wrote last October, defense takes a while to learn—they’re going to compete for a playoff spot and perhaps even make a moderately deep postseason run next year due to Thibodeau’s front office acumen. Last summer, while most of the rest of the league was handing out eight- and nine-digit deals as if the salary cap was going to go on skyrocketing forever, Thibs signed Brandon Rush, Jordan Hill, and Cole Aldrich to modest, short-term contracts—Rush and Hill are already gone; Aldrich is non-guaranteed in 18-19—and worked out a fairly priced extension for Gorgui Dieng. Instead of scrambling to improve a squad he was just getting to know, he stayed prudent and kept his options open.


This offseason, having all the information he needed about Kris Dunn and Zach LaVine, he sent them to Chicago along with a mid-lottery pick for Jimmy Butler in what’s been characterized by most as an absolute fleecing. Thibodeau’s other moves haven’t been bad either. His insistence on shipping Ricky Rubio out—Rubio can’t shoot, but he’s a terrific passer and one of the Wolves’ only above-average defenders—was curious, but he got decent value for the Spaniard by flipping him to Utah for a lottery-protected first-rounder. And bringing aboard Jeff Teague as Rubio’s replacement is a solid decision. Teague will boost Minny’s offense and he’s signed for the next three seasons at an average of $19 million per year. He’ll be 31 when his contract is up, which is just about when slashing point guards like him begin to decline. Taj Gibson for two years and $28 million? It’s a whit Doc Riversonian, but it’s only two years and Gibson isn’t done as a useful player. 


What we tend to worry about most with executive-coaches is that they’ll sink themselves with short-term thinking. Granted, some general managers do this too, but it seems that coaches get especially restless with regards to bringing along young players and losing a bunch of games in the process. Thibs, after a rough first season with the whistle around his neck, has taken this offseason to swing the A-plus Butler coup, but also to incrementally improve the Wolves with veterans without screwing up their cap or needlessly dealing away lottery picks or promising prospects for sure-thing thirty-year-olds. 


The Wolves are quite a bit more talented than they were a year ago, and could create cap space next summer by waiting to extend Wiggins to keep him on a cap hold before re-signing him, minus Aldrich’s non-guaranteed salary and trading away the contract of Dieng. Additionally, any exceptions they want to use once they re-sign Wiggins and go over the cap. Thibs can coach up this souped-up roster in 17-18, see where he’s at, and have a decent degree of flexibility to make adjustments afterwards.


Obviously, there’s a lot of work left to do. The Wolves won 31 games last year. But Karl-Anthony Towns is a star at 21. Jimmy Butler is one of the best fifteen players in the league. Teague and Gibson have parts to play and will function as adults in the locker room. Wiggins is a frustrating yet immensely gifted young player. The Wolves haven’t figured everything out, but they’re on the right track.


If this sounds like slightly faint praise, it’s because there was a decent chance Thibodeau the exec was going to sabotage Thibodeau the coach. We’ve seen it happen before, and hell, on his way through the door, he hired former Knicks pariah Scott Layden to work beneath him as general manager. That was a bad sign right at the start. But however much Thibs is delegating and however much he’s involved in day-to-day personnel management, it’s the correct amount. After a little more than a year in charge, he’s got the Wolves ready to pivot toward playoff contention. They’re exactly where they want to be at the moment, and they’re set up well to pursue grander ambitions further down the road.

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Re: Tom Thibodeau's Shot At Getting The Exec-Coach Hybrid Right 

Post#2 » by Bobalob » Wed Jul 5, 2017 3:40 pm

I think he's gonna get exposed. He's living off his pedigree as a tough guy to me.

Think about it: Thibs is the greatly heralded coach, a guy like Dantoni is practically a laughing stock, yet Minny was arguably more talented than Houston last year, and Houston finishes the season way better. Why? Dantoni caters to his players and a modern style.

Now he does make a great trade for Butler but you can argue he's already made some missteps post-Butler. Hasnt addressed shooting. Seems to be Phil Jackson-esque in that he doesnt want to win, he wants to win HIS way. We'll see how it turns out, but i wouldnt be surprised if they underachieve some more.

You give a Steve Kerr, Dantoni, or any forward thinking coach a start with Butler, Wiggins, and Towns and this roster (and gameplay) would be much different and the team much better.
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Re: Tom Thibodeau's Shot At Getting The Exec-Coach Hybrid Right 

Post#3 » by luss54321 » Thu Jul 6, 2017 3:25 pm

Bobalob wrote:I think he's gonna get exposed. He's living off his pedigree as a tough guy to me.

Think about it: Thibs is the greatly heralded coach, a guy like Dantoni is practically a laughing stock, yet Minny was arguably more talented than Houston last year, and Houston finishes the season way better. Why? Dantoni caters to his players and a modern style.

Now he does make a great trade for Butler but you can argue he's already made some missteps post-Butler. Hasnt addressed shooting. Seems to be Phil Jackson-esque in that he doesnt want to win, he wants to win HIS way. We'll see how it turns out, but i wouldnt be surprised if they underachieve some more.

You give a Steve Kerr, Dantoni, or any forward thinking coach a start with Butler, Wiggins, and Towns and this roster (and gameplay) would be much different and the team much better.


Don't forget that Thibs won a championship with Boston in 2008. He was an assistant, but arguably more important than Doc Rivers. So he's already surpassed D'Antoni in achievement. D'Antoni has a well established record of regular season success and early playoff exits. Last year was no exception.

It's hard to win when your best players are so young. Towns (21), Wiggins (22), LaVine (22). It's pretty much unprecedented.

I have full confidence that Thibs can maximize the talent of any roster. He revolutionized modern defense in the NBA and he's the hardest working coach in the league. The dude watches films like 19 hours a day and sleeps the other 5.
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Re: Tom Thibodeau's Shot At Getting The Exec-Coach Hybrid Right 

Post#4 » by Bobalob » Thu Jul 6, 2017 4:09 pm

luss54321 wrote:
Bobalob wrote:I think he's gonna get exposed. He's living off his pedigree as a tough guy to me.

Think about it: Thibs is the greatly heralded coach, a guy like Dantoni is practically a laughing stock, yet Minny was arguably more talented than Houston last year, and Houston finishes the season way better. Why? Dantoni caters to his players and a modern style.

Now he does make a great trade for Butler but you can argue he's already made some missteps post-Butler. Hasnt addressed shooting. Seems to be Phil Jackson-esque in that he doesnt want to win, he wants to win HIS way. We'll see how it turns out, but i wouldnt be surprised if they underachieve some more.

You give a Steve Kerr, Dantoni, or any forward thinking coach a start with Butler, Wiggins, and Towns and this roster (and gameplay) would be much different and the team much better.


Don't forget that Thibs won a championship with Boston in 2008. He was an assistant, but arguably more important than Doc Rivers. So he's already surpassed D'Antoni in achievement. D'Antoni has a well established record of regular season success and early playoff exits. Last year was no exception.

It's hard to win when your best players are so young. Towns (21), Wiggins (22), LaVine (22). It's pretty much unprecedented.

I have full confidence that Thibs can maximize the talent of any roster. He revolutionized modern defense in the NBA and he's the hardest working coach in the league. The dude watches films like 19 hours a day and sleeps the other 5.


Perception is something aint it. Doc Rivers is being killed my fans even tho he was HEAD COACH of a title team. Yet Thibs is seemingly more respected.

This year he has no excuses. If he's the mastermind they say he is they will deliver
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Re: Tom Thibodeau's Shot At Getting The Exec-Coach Hybrid Right 

Post#5 » by Southpaw » Sat Jul 8, 2017 1:15 pm

Bobalob wrote:I think he's gonna get exposed. He's living off his pedigree as a tough guy to me.

Think about it: Thibs is the greatly heralded coach, a guy like Dantoni is practically a laughing stock, yet Minny was arguably more talented than Houston last year, and Houston finishes the season way better. Why? Dantoni caters to his players and a modern style.

Now he does make a great trade for Butler but you can argue he's already made some missteps post-Butler. Hasnt addressed shooting. Seems to be Phil Jackson-esque in that he doesnt want to win, he wants to win HIS way. We'll see how it turns out, but i wouldnt be surprised if they underachieve some more.

You give a Steve Kerr, Dantoni, or any forward thinking coach a start with Butler, Wiggins, and Towns and this roster (and gameplay) would be much different and the team much better.

I disagree with MDA catering to his players. Did we just forget the MDA Lakers? Trying to run and gun with Pau and Dwight?

Not to take anything away from Houston's success the past season, he did great there. But you can't say he caters to his players when all he's ever done as a coach is to play run and gun basketball.

As for Thibs, he does change his coaching style depending on his personnel. Remember the year when Joakim Noah was top 5 in the MVP ballot? He designed the offense around a C after his starting PG went down.

Minny's core last year was too young to expect them to have much success. That was why it was smart that Thibs didn't go all in into making the playoffs last year. It was evaluation year for them.

Now this year? Totally agree with you, they have no excuses. They have to make the playoffs.
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Re: Tom Thibodeau's Shot At Getting The Exec-Coach Hybrid Right 

Post#6 » by meekrab » Sat Jul 8, 2017 8:26 pm

Bobalob wrote:Perception is something aint it. Doc Rivers is being killed my fans even tho he was HEAD COACH of a title team. Yet Thibs is seemingly more respected.

This year he has no excuses. If he's the mastermind they say he is they will deliver

Doc is getting killed by fans because he inherited a stacked roster and dismantled it move by move to the point where it's a serious question whether his own son, a barely league average player, is the starting PG.

As for Thibs and Minnesota, he certainly revolutionized defense in the NBA and did a great job in Chicago, but I can't see the Wolves ever being a serious threat if Wiggins doesn't improve his effort on defense. Yes, it takes a while to learn, but you can't teach hustle. Hopefully playing with elite defenders like Butler and Gibson drives him to up his game on that end.
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Re: Tom Thibodeau's Shot At Getting The Exec-Coach Hybrid Right 

Post#7 » by Bobalob » Sun Jul 9, 2017 5:42 pm

meekrab wrote:
Bobalob wrote:Perception is something aint it. Doc Rivers is being killed my fans even tho he was HEAD COACH of a title team. Yet Thibs is seemingly more respected.

This year he has no excuses. If he's the mastermind they say he is they will deliver

Doc is getting killed by fans because he inherited a stacked roster and dismantled it move by move to the point where it's a serious question whether his own son, a barely league average player, is the starting PG.

As for Thibs and Minnesota, he certainly revolutionized defense in the NBA and did a great job in Chicago, but I can't see the Wolves ever being a serious threat if Wiggins doesn't improve his effort on defense. Yes, it takes a while to learn, but you can't teach hustle. Hopefully playing with elite defenders like Butler and Gibson drives him to up his game on that end.


I don't agree wth either of those points and it's a shame that everyone is running with them

1-The Clippers were never 'stacked'!!!

CP3 and Blake could not stay healthy, Blake didn't ascend to 25 and 10 guy we thought, and j don't even mention Deandre c he's IRELEVANT. A big who can't score is irrelevant. In my eyes theybwere never that good

2- Austin Rivers is your garden variety backup combo guard. They are littered throughout the league. People only pick on him bc his name is Rivers. If he shouldn't be in the league why are they???

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