Re: NFLPA Files Grievance Over Anthem Policy

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Re: NFLPA Files Grievance Over Anthem Policy 

Post#21 » by Barcs » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:20 am

KGdaBom wrote:
Barcs wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Nobody is making anybody salute the flag or stand for the anthem.


Exactly, which is why they are perfectly justified in kneeling in protest. Thanks for making my point for me.

How can you possibly think I'm making a point for you. I'm not making any point for you. They can kneel in protest in the locker rooms with no cameras to record them doing it. The players have zero right to kneel in protest on the field at their place of employment
while representing their employers.


THEY ARE NOT EMPLOYEES. They are contractors. NFL stadiums are not their place of employment. The national anthem being played has nothing to do with football or the players contracts. They should have every right to take a knee, regardless of what conservative snowflakes think about it. If folks don't like it, then address the issue they are protesting.
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Re: NFLPA Files Grievance Over Anthem Policy 

Post#22 » by KGdaBom » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:32 pm

Barcs wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Barcs wrote:
Exactly, which is why they are perfectly justified in kneeling in protest. Thanks for making my point for me.

How can you possibly think I'm making a point for you. I'm not making any point for you. They can kneel in protest in the locker rooms with no cameras to record them doing it. The players have zero right to kneel in protest on the field at their place of employment
while representing their employers.


THEY ARE NOT EMPLOYEES. They are contractors. NFL stadiums are not their place of employment. The national anthem being played has nothing to do with football or the players contracts. They should have every right to take a knee, regardless of what conservative snowflakes think about it. If folks don't like it, then address the issue they are protesting.

This is one of the most ridiculous comments I have ever seen. NFL players are employed by the NFL. NFL stadiums and practice fields are their place of employment. Players do have every right to take a knee in the locker room. They have no right to disrespect the National Anthem while at their place of employment on camera. It is the NFL's broadcast. Just like an actor on CSI is required to do what their employers require of them while on camera so do NFL players.
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Re: NFLPA Files Grievance Over Anthem Policy 

Post#23 » by KGdaBom » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:38 pm

Barcs wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
You clearly don’t understand what contracts are about yet I’m the one full of it? But wait, you’re ‘almost certain’ while providing no proof whatsoever.

So much for having a mature discussion. Have a good life.

The Teams/Owners own the broadcasts. What is so hard for you to grasp about that. They have a right to control what is in the broadcast. No I haven't read all the contracts. I don't know for a fact that the contracts don't specifically say anything about crapping on the field. My very strong guess is that they don't.


Actually the TV networks and FCC control the broadcasts. The Owners have nothing to do with that, they just get a portion of the profits.

You are partially right but in the end you are wrong. The FCC and the Networks have some control but so do the teams. The teams do control what is in the broadcast. It is the Teams that make the rules about what the players can or can't do during the Broadcast. Check it out. Players are not allowed to make personal messages during the broadcast. They are not allowed to have messages written on any of their apparel. They must wear a uniform to the exact specifications of the team.
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Re: NFLPA Files Grievance Over Anthem Policy 

Post#24 » by KGdaBom » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:42 pm

Barcs wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Barcs wrote:Good. What took them so long? The way Trump is **** up this country, everyone should be protesting the flag. We are spiraling down hill. Separation of church and state is good as gone. Freedom of speech will be next and all those trumper ass clowns will stand by idly as it happens.

They're filing a grievance that they are not being given free air time to make political protests at their place of employment. You can't make this **** up. They are still being given a platform to protest during their work time by staying in the locker room. You know it will be reported. These guys should protest on their own time. Not on the time they are being paid to represent their employers.


No, they get paid to play the game. Their paychecks are written on a per game basis. They don't get paid to stand out in the field and salute the flag. That is done because the NFL has an agreement with the military where the military pays them to promote it.
NFL players are contractors, not employees. There is no reason why that's even part of the event in the first place, it has nothing to do with football. It's politics, so if somebody claims that politics should not be part of football, then they should get rid of the flag ceremony in the first place. Promote the military and patriotism on your own time, right???

Also I was under the impression that individual players could not choose to stay in the locker room. It had to be the whole team or nobody. Am I mistaken about that?

Wrong about paid to play the game. Their contracts require that they participate in practice. Also it is obvious that part of the deal is representing the team. It doesn't matter if the player is very good on the field if he were to say he hates the team, the country, the teams fans etc. he wouldn't keep his job. Wrong about individual players not being allowed to stay in the locker room. Every player can choose to stay in the locker room or be on the field.
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Re: Re: NFLPA Files Grievance Over Anthem Policy 

Post#25 » by Slava » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:01 pm

They could stop playing the anthem and jerking off the military before sports events. No other country does that. It might be worth more to veterans if they have adequate access to health insurance and a job in civilian life than being paraded around a bunch of drunk fans at a sporting event.
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Re: NFLPA Files Grievance Over Anthem Policy 

Post#26 » by Barcs » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:46 pm

KGdaBom wrote:This is one of the most ridiculous comments I have ever seen. NFL players are employed by the NFL. NFL stadiums and practice fields are their place of employment. Players do have every right to take a knee in the locker room. They have no right to disrespect the National Anthem while at their place of employment on camera. It is the NFL's broadcast. Just like an actor on CSI is required to do what their employers require of them while on camera so do NFL players.


Once again you are way off. Players are contracted by the team owners, not the NFL. It is not technically their "place of employment", they aren't employed, they are contractors. They are contracted to the TEAM, not a stadium. They just play at the stadiums, If you hire a painter to maintain your company's buildings for a year, those buildings are NOT your place of employment.

They have every right to kneel for the anthem. I agree if the NFL makes a rule about it they have to fall in line, but again they are payed to play the game, not to respect some arbitrary song that gets played for no reason before every single game and isn't even part of what they get paid for, it's essentially just there to promote the military. It's only disrespectful to over sensitive snowflakes. I know tons of people in the military that fully support that right. Peaceful protest is what this country is founded on and what many soldier died for, so to tell them they can't do it goes against everything this country stands for. Who cares if it's on Tv?

The teams do control what is in the broadcast. It is the Teams that make the rules about what the players can or can't do during the Broadcast


Sorry this is completely wrong. The FCC makes the rules about what is allowed on TV, and the networks regulate that. Obviously, they have to follow NFL rules and code of conduct (which IS in their contract). The team owner can tell player what they want him to do, but if it's not in the contract he does not have to comply.

Players are not allowed to make personal messages during the broadcast. They are not allowed to have messages written on any of their apparel. They must wear a uniform to the exact specifications of the team.


Those are NFL rules, not the team rules. A team owner can't come out one day and say, "We are now allowing political messages on uniforms."

Wrong about paid to play the game. Their contracts require that they participate in practice. Also it is obvious that part of the deal is representing the team. It doesn't matter if the player is very good on the field if he were to say he hates the team, the country, the teams fans etc. he wouldn't keep his job


Nope. When a player gets suspended without pay for 4 games, they lose money for 4 games worth of the season. They are absolutely payed per game. That's why they generally get game checks each week. It's not based on practice, but yeah they have to because you can't play on a team successfully without practicing with them.
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Re: NFLPA Files Grievance Over Anthem Policy 

Post#27 » by KGdaBom » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:42 pm

Barcs wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:This is one of the most ridiculous comments I have ever seen. NFL players are employed by the NFL. NFL stadiums and practice fields are their place of employment. Players do have every right to take a knee in the locker room. They have no right to disrespect the National Anthem while at their place of employment on camera. It is the NFL's broadcast. Just like an actor on CSI is required to do what their employers require of them while on camera so do NFL players.


Once again you are way off. Players are contracted by the team owners, not the NFL. It is not technically their "place of employment", they aren't employed, they are contractors. They are contracted to the TEAM, not a stadium. They just play at the stadiums, If you hire a painter to maintain your company's buildings for a year, those buildings are NOT your place of employment.

They have every right to kneel for the anthem. I agree if the NFL makes a rule about it they have to fall in line, but again they are payed to play the game, not to respect some arbitrary song that gets played for no reason before every single game and isn't even part of what they get paid for, it's essentially just there to promote the military. It's only disrespectful to over sensitive snowflakes. I know tons of people in the military that fully support that right. Peaceful protest is what this country is founded on and what many soldier died for, so to tell them they can't do it goes against everything this country stands for. Who cares if it's on Tv?

The teams do control what is in the broadcast. It is the Teams that make the rules about what the players can or can't do during the Broadcast


Sorry this is completely wrong. The FCC makes the rules about what is allowed on TV, and the networks regulate that. Obviously, they have to follow NFL rules and code of conduct (which IS in their contract). The team owner can tell player what they want him to do, but if it's not in the contract he does not have to comply.

Players are not allowed to make personal messages during the broadcast. They are not allowed to have messages written on any of their apparel. They must wear a uniform to the exact specifications of the team.


Those are NFL rules, not the team rules. A team owner can't come out one day and say, "We are now allowing political messages on uniforms."

Wrong about paid to play the game. Their contracts require that they participate in practice. Also it is obvious that part of the deal is representing the team. It doesn't matter if the player is very good on the field if he were to say he hates the team, the country, the teams fans etc. he wouldn't keep his job


Nope. When a player gets suspended without pay for 4 games, they lose money for 4 games worth of the season. They are absolutely payed per game. That's why they generally get game checks each week. It's not based on practice, but yeah they have to because you can't play on a team successfully without practicing with them.

You made this point by point reply and were wrong about every one of them. Contractors are employed by somebody. When I say the NFL of course it means the teams. The players are employed by the teams. Why are you acting like contractors makes it different somehow. That is ridiculous. You keep saying the players should be allowed to kneel for the national anthem and they are allowed to kneel for the national anthem. They just can't do it on the NFL broadcast. And what is your BS with this snowflake word. Just seems like you are being a jerk. Yes for every game they miss they lose a games pay, but if they miss practice they are fined for it. Practice is a condition of their employment and they are on the job when they practice. They are in uniform for pregame activities. They are on the job any time they are in uniform even if it's for a PR function. You're just acting this uninformed. I know you can't really be this uninformed. It's not possible. I get that you don't think our anthem deserves respect and want to support the players in disrespecting it and they have that right. They just don't have that right to do so during the NFL broadcasts. Any person with any intelligence knows this. I think you are lying to yourself in thinking the players have some special right to have the NFL provide them with a platform for political protest. The NFL absolutely has zero obligation to provide this for them.
As for the military what does that have to do with anything. This is not a military issue. It is an issue of the owners being able to determine what goes on in their broadcasts. Their property that the players participate in. Also since the Anthem in your opinion has nothing to do with the players job then I have a great solution. They stay in the locker room for it. I'm done with you make all the illogical nonsensical comments you want.
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Re: Re: NFLPA Files Grievance Over Anthem Policy 

Post#28 » by KGdaBom » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:54 pm

Slava wrote:They could stop playing the anthem and jerking off the military before sports events. No other country does that. It might be worth more to veterans if they have adequate access to health insurance and a job in civilian life than being paraded around a bunch of drunk fans at a sporting event.

I don't get this idea that the anthem is a military jerk off. I was never military and the Anthem even though it's not a very melodic song is deserving of my respect and all of our respect military or otherwise as it represents us. If the Anthem were to be eliminated from sporting events would that be a good thing. Sporting events are one of the few times we ever hear it. Who wins if it is eliminated.
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Re: NFLPA Files Grievance Over Anthem Policy 

Post#29 » by Barcs » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:41 pm

KGdaBom wrote:You made this point by point reply and were wrong about every one of them. Contractors are employed by somebody.

I was right about all of them. Contractors are NOT always employed. Many work for themselves, IE NFL players. Employee is not the same as contractor.

When I say the NFL of course it means the teams. The players are employed by the teams. Why are you acting like contractors makes it different somehow. That is ridiculous.


No it's not, they are different things. You can't keep calling somebody an employee when they are not employees.

You keep saying the players should be allowed to kneel for the national anthem and they are allowed to kneel for the national anthem. They just can't do it on the NFL broadcast.


Jesus Christ! What do you think I was talking about? Yeah, because kneeling for the anthem while back in the locker room totally makes a statement.

And what is your BS with this snowflake word. Just seems like you are being a jerk.


Sorry, it is what it is. People are only against the protests because they are offended by it. It's double standards considering the people who are offended are constantly attacking the other side as easily offended snowflakes. They coined that term and now it's funny that being offended justifies censoring somebody when they literally argue against that idea. Trump ran on that campaign.

Yes for every game they miss they lose a games pay, but if they miss practice they are fined for it. Practice is a condition of their employment and they are on the job when they practice.

Irrelevant.

They are in uniform for pregame activities. They are on the job any time they are in uniform even if it's for a PR function.

Irrelevant.

I get that you don't think our anthem deserves respect and want to support the players in disrespecting it and they have that right. They just don't have that right to do so during the NFL broadcasts.


Yes, they actually SHOULD have that right. Again, if it's not in their contract they don't have to respect any anthem and I already said that if the NFL makes a rule about it they do have to comply. They are trying to reach a large audience to spread awareness about the problems of racial inequality in this country.

I think you are lying to yourself in thinking the players have some special right to have the NFL provide them with a platform for political protest.


It is a fundamental right of every American to protest what they don't agree with. Why do you think unions organize strikes and protests ON COMPANY/AGENCY time and people don't get fired for it?

The NFL absolutely has zero obligation to provide this for them.


They have zero obligation to deny this for them.

As for the military what does that have to do with anything. This is not a military issue.


It's not, but conservatives have turned it into a military issue. But yeah the anthem is absolutely played to promote the military, no other reason. This is why people are butthurt about it, they claim these people hate America or hate the military. You even said yourself that it is disrespectful. Do you know what else was considered disrespectful? When African Americans organized non violent protests and sat in "White only" establishments on THEIR company time. Many people were offended, but that is irrelevant because our country is founded on the right to non violent protest.

It is an issue of the owners being able to determine what goes on in their broadcasts.


Once again, the owners do not determine that.
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