RealGM

1. Oladipo
2. Carter-Williams
3. Burke
4. McLemore
5. Hardaway
6. Antetokounmpo
7. Other

50% of NBA fans haven't even seen Trey Burke on TV, News, or NBA.com.

JazzMatt13 wrote:50% of NBA fans haven't even seen Trey Burke on TV, News, or NBA.com.

very true. Trey Burke is great. both him and MCW are good rookies on bad teams. but statistically speaking MCW has been better. but the season is young. i expect burke to win ROY.

LakersFan82505 wrote:

JazzMatt13 wrote:50% of NBA fans haven't even seen Trey Burke on TV, News, or NBA.com.

very true. Trey Burke is great. both him and MCW are good rookies on bad teams. but statistically speaking MCW has been better. but the season is young. i expect burke to win ROY.

"Some Statistics", but it is the ones that "matter most". PPG and PER, are basically what you need to be. Antetokounmpo was nothing a week ago, gets a top 5 PER in Rookies, and bam, on the ladder.

I think people aren't realizing that Trey Burke's Defensive and Offensive rating is equal to or greater than Lillard. But I can could care less about MCW's 3 steals a game with his 67% FT shooting, I would swap that for Trey Burke's 90% FT shooting and 1 steal.

Bottom line, MCW, Burke and Oladipo are the only ones getting enough minutes to really be a Star. If Oladipo continues to plummit, or if MCW finally faces real competition and his stats level out where they really are, it should easily be a "co-ROTY", with Burke, and one of them.

JazzMatt13 wrote:

LakersFan82505 wrote:

JazzMatt13 wrote:50% of NBA fans haven't even seen Trey Burke on TV, News, or NBA.com.

very true. Trey Burke is great. both him and MCW are good rookies on bad teams. but statistically speaking MCW has been better. but the season is young. i expect burke to win ROY.

"Some Statistics", but it is the ones that "matter most". PPG and PER, are basically what you need to be. Antetokounmpo was nothing a week ago, gets a top 5 PER in Rookies, and bam, on the ladder.

I think people aren't realizing that Trey Burke's Defensive and Offensive rating is equal to or greater than Lillard. But I can could care less about MCW's 3 steals a game with his 67% FT shooting, I would swap that for Trey Burke's 90% FT shooting and 1 steal.

Bottom line, MCW, Burke and Oladipo are the only ones getting enough minutes to really be a Star. If Oladipo continues to plummit, or if MCW finally faces real competition and his stats level out where they really are, it should easily be a "co-ROTY", with Burke, and one of them.

Trey Burke's alright as of late, but he doesn't pass the eye test. Oladipo and MCW are the real deal, I couldn't care less about Hollinger's PER. Trey Burke still needs to work on his decision making, and he forces some really errant shots at very inopportune times, much to the detriment of his team. I think Trey Burke has a good chance of being the best player from this draft in a few years, however. The guards are certainly better than the forwards and bigs taken in this draft.

JazzMatt13 wrote:

LakersFan82505 wrote:

JazzMatt13 wrote:50% of NBA fans haven't even seen Trey Burke on TV, News, or NBA.com.

very true. Trey Burke is great. both him and MCW are good rookies on bad teams. but statistically speaking MCW has been better. but the season is young. i expect burke to win ROY.

"Some Statistics", but it is the ones that "matter most". PPG and PER, are basically what you need to be. Antetokounmpo was nothing a week ago, gets a top 5 PER in Rookies, and bam, on the ladder.

I think people aren't realizing that Trey Burke's Defensive and Offensive rating is equal to or greater than Lillard. But I can could care less about MCW's 3 steals a game with his 67% FT shooting, I would swap that for Trey Burke's 90% FT shooting and 1 steal.

Bottom line, MCW, Burke and Oladipo are the only ones getting enough minutes to really be a Star. If Oladipo continues to plummit, or if MCW finally faces real competition and his stats level out where they really are, it should easily be a "co-ROTY", with Burke, and one of them.

I'm glad to have MCW over Burke. Better playmaker, defensive instincts, NBA size and proved so far to be just as clutch as Burke. No knock on Trey, but MCW will be a bigger difference maker for years to come. MCW schooled the Heat in his first game and shut D Rose (albeit rusty) down.

agiaco wrote:
I'm glad to have MCW over Burke. Better playmaker, defensive instincts, NBA size and proved so far to be just as clutch as Burke. No knock on Trey, but MCW will be a bigger difference maker for years to come. MCW schooled the Heat in his first game and shut D Rose (albeit rusty) down.

Have you even seen Burke play......Your just reading to much into everyone down playing Burke and his game, if people actually watched him, and looked at the high level of play he has to show up to, more people would realize that MCW isn't better than him. Just because you have higher PPG and PER, doesn't mean much when talking the full game of a player.

Burke is ice cold in veins when it comes to 4th quarter shots that matter, just tonight shot the 3 to take the lead, and then landed 2 free throw to get the 3 point lead, both in last 3 minutes of game.

MCW size does allow him steals, rebounds and blocks that Burke could never get, but I would trade all that for Trey's FT shooting and TO Ratio. The fact is, MCW is great and being at right place at right time, but doesn't have the "control" that Burke has, MCW is getting way more TO's.

The one thing I credit MCW the most about, is the fact that he steps up when it matters, but overall he hasn't won many games considering Philly's average opponent is .476(Jazz's average opponent is .560), I mean MCW just lost to Bucks?! Burke is losing to high quality teams all +.500 (minus 1, SAC) and they are playoff teams(aka PHO, IND, @POR, SAC, POR, SAS, @MIA and @ATL)


No one seems to get this, but anyone can look as good as MCW when the level of play is low, which is averaging at .476, not to mention Philly's home/away is 15/13, and Jazz is 13/17! But like I said yea MCW has stepped up in big games, but if you take away his first 3 games of season, he doesn't look as good as everyone thinks, he has only won 4 games since!?! Everyone wrote Burke off, just because his FG% wasn't "great" at Summer League. So ROTY is about FG% and PPG.

Have you even seen the points that Burke has held point guards to, like @Pepsi, held Lawson to 0, and Robinson to 7, he helped in giving Oladipo only 3, the list goes on.

You realize 76er's PACE is extremely higher than Utah Jazz, which easy explains "more stats" like the 10 more points a game his team gets, but if you go check Hollinger's Power Rankings, Jazz have had the #1 absolute hardest schedule to date, Philly has had 22nd, so it isn't hard to get stats on "crap teams".

I say MCW and Burke are equal, but each are better at certain things:

Level of Play:
MCW = 7 wins when starting - MIA, @WAS, CHI, CLE, MIL, ORL, and BKN!
Average Win: .411
1 win against +.500, none on road!
1 Road Win

Burke = 7 wins when starting - CHI, @PHO, HOU, @SAC, @DEN, @ORL and @CHA!
Average Win: .464
3 wins against +.500, 2 of those on road!
5 Road Wins

The fact is, the media is selling MCW, and everyone is buying. So Oladipo and Burke have no chance. I don't really care, Jazz aren't here for popularity contests. If NBA.com would post Burke every night on his big games he would be sold.


MCW = NBA's Poster Boy

MCW loses to the WORST team in the league aka the Bucks, and they give him dunk of the night and Top 10, he is on all the news outlets and they only talk about his greatness.

Trey Burke scores the highest points of all rookies this year, and not even in the media, let alone top 10, he is only dogged about, with his size not big enough and his shooting percentage to low.


So go buy your MCW jerseys, and only eat what media feeds you. I am shocked that Tim Hardaway Jr. hasn't been this years poster boy being in New York and all. Just you watch, the media is starting to baby feed you Hardaway and soon he will be #1 in ROTY race.

JazzMatt13 wrote:blah blah blah

Then you look at the stats, simple stats obviously favor MCW although as you mentioned that's in part due to pace, however, delving deeper into the more advanced stats which would negate pace and flux in pace... MCW's 19.0 PER to Burke's 16.0, the fact that Burke shoots a worse efg% and TS% than MCW (neither particularly good), MCW has more Wins Shared, Estimated Wins Added, and Value added than Burke, Burke allows more points per possession than MCW on defense, Sixers being a net positive 7.8 points per 100 possessions when MCW is in the game as opposed to the Jazz being a net positive 5.1 points per 100 possessions when Burke is in the game... I already argued this thoroughly with you, honestly don't feel like doing it again.

His dunk was dunk of the night because it was the best dunk of the night, outcome of the game has nothing to do with it...

CoreyGallagher wrote:

JazzMatt13 wrote:blah blah blah

Then you look at the stats, simple stats obviously favor MCW although as you mentioned that's in part due to pace, however, delving deeper into the more advanced stats which would negate pace and flux in pace... MCW's 19.0 PER to Burke's 16.0, the fact that Burke shoots a worse efg% and TS% than MCW (neither particularly good), MCW has more Wins Shared, Estimated Wins Added, and Value added than Burke, Burke allows more points per possession than MCW on defense, Sixers being a net positive 7.8 points per 100 possessions when MCW is in the game as opposed to the Jazz being a net positive 5.1 points per 100 possessions when Burke is in the game... I already argued this thoroughly with you, honestly don't feel like doing it again.

His dunk was dunk of the night because it was the best dunk of the night, outcome of the game has nothing to do with it...

Your like everyone else on RealGM you don't want to hear truth when it is front of you...

Blah Blah Blah = Truth

Gordon Hayward's Dunk WAS DUNK OF THE NIGHT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YDoNkbvDWo


Lets say every last stat MCW was ahead of Burke, from Defensive Rating to TO's to FT%. The fact is Philly has the 22nd hardest schedule to date, Jazz have the #1. So if any differentials whether 3 more PPG, or 3 more in PER, it doesn't mean crap, because the level of play against MCW is soooo low that anyone could look like an All-Star!! The level of play for Trey Burke is greater than .500, even on average.

Facts, Carter WIlliams stats are padded. Fact, he is being over-estimated, and Burke is being underestimated. The fact is they have won equal games, and Trey has better wins, and on the road, and now your mad because you ate up everything NBA feeds you and now you feel like a fool! You might as well call me a witch, and try to burn me so that no one finds out.

Go check the game when "early season" Jazz faced Raptors, we made them look All-Stars. "LOW LEVEL" play makes "Crap Teams" look like they are filled with All-Stars.

JazzMatt13 wrote:

CoreyGallagher wrote:

JazzMatt13 wrote:blah blah blah

Then you look at the stats, simple stats obviously favor MCW although as you mentioned that's in part due to pace, however, delving deeper into the more advanced stats which would negate pace and flux in pace... MCW's 19.0 PER to Burke's 16.0, the fact that Burke shoots a worse efg% and TS% than MCW (neither particularly good), MCW has more Wins Shared, Estimated Wins Added, and Value added than Burke, Burke allows more points per possession than MCW on defense, Sixers being a net positive 7.8 points per 100 possessions when MCW is in the game as opposed to the Jazz being a net positive 5.1 points per 100 possessions when Burke is in the game... I already argued this thoroughly with you, honestly don't feel like doing it again.

His dunk was dunk of the night because it was the best dunk of the night, outcome of the game has nothing to do with it...

Your like everyone else on RealGM you don't want to hear truth when it is front of you...

Blah Blah Blah = Truth

Gordon Hayward's Dunk WAS DUNK OF THE NIGHT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YDoNkbvDWo


Lets say every last stat MCW was ahead of Burke, from Defensive Rating to TO's to FT%. The fact is Philly has the 22nd hardest schedule to date, Jazz have the #1. So if any differentials whether 3 more PPG, or 3 more in PER, it doesn't mean crap, because the level of play against MCW is soooo low that anyone could look like an All-Star!! The level of play for Trey Burke is greater than .500, even on average.

Facts, Carter WIlliams stats are padded. Fact, he is being over-estimated, and Burke is being underestimated. The fact is they have won equal games, and Trey has better wins, and on the road, and now your mad because you ate up everything NBA feeds you and now you feel like a fool! You might as well call me a witch, and try to burn me so that no one finds out.

Go check the game when "early season" Jazz faced Raptors, we made them look All-Stars. "LOW LEVEL" play makes "Crap Teams" look like they are filled with All-Stars.

Lol, same regurgitated bull ****, you've been spewing this same crap for a while. You can believe whatever you want however I'm not going to discuss it with you because you're so blinded by your ignorance that no matter what facts or stats I present to you it doesn't affect your opinion, so what's the point?

Again, you can have your opinion, but MCW's dunk was the dunk of the night, I think so and so do the folks at the NBA network.

After seeing the 4th quarter of the Jazz/Cats game. I would take Trey over anyone in the last draft. He is the best player and best PG.

JazzMatt13 wrote:

CoreyGallagher wrote:

JazzMatt13 wrote:blah blah blah

Then you look at the stats, simple stats obviously favor MCW although as you mentioned that's in part due to pace, however, delving deeper into the more advanced stats which would negate pace and flux in pace... MCW's 19.0 PER to Burke's 16.0, the fact that Burke shoots a worse efg% and TS% than MCW (neither particularly good), MCW has more Wins Shared, Estimated Wins Added, and Value added than Burke, Burke allows more points per possession than MCW on defense, Sixers being a net positive 7.8 points per 100 possessions when MCW is in the game as opposed to the Jazz being a net positive 5.1 points per 100 possessions when Burke is in the game... I already argued this thoroughly with you, honestly don't feel like doing it again.

His dunk was dunk of the night because it was the best dunk of the night, outcome of the game has nothing to do with it...

Your like everyone else on RealGM you don't want to hear truth when it is front of you...

Blah Blah Blah = Truth

Gordon Hayward's Dunk WAS DUNK OF THE NIGHT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YDoNkbvDWo


Lets say every last stat MCW was ahead of Burke, from Defensive Rating to TO's to FT%. The fact is Philly has the 22nd hardest schedule to date, Jazz have the #1. So if any differentials whether 3 more PPG, or 3 more in PER, it doesn't mean crap, because the level of play against MCW is soooo low that anyone could look like an All-Star!! The level of play for Trey Burke is greater than .500, even on average.

Facts, Carter WIlliams stats are padded. Fact, he is being over-estimated, and Burke is being underestimated. The fact is they have won equal games, and Trey has better wins, and on the road, and now your mad because you ate up everything NBA feeds you and now you feel like a fool! You might as well call me a witch, and try to burn me so that no one finds out.

Go check the game when "early season" Jazz faced Raptors, we made them look All-Stars. "LOW LEVEL" play makes "Crap Teams" look like they are filled with All-Stars.

We don't base our judgements off of "what the NBA feeds us." Nor did I argue statistics ultimately determine their ranking. If you want to go off stats more MCW still tops Burke per 48 minutes. Don't know why you're so hung up on free throw percentage. I'll take Carter-Williams' defense over that any day. I (and Corey) have seen enough games to judge for ourselves. Surely I haven't seen Trey play as much as Michael. I could go back and come up with quite a few big shots MCW has hit already as well. Not only that but he has had 3 of his biggest games against Miami, Indiana and Chicago (with Rose). Why you're arguing about how many games the teams won is irrelevant since both are clearly more interested in losing.

I think you need to stop riding Burke so hard and knocking MCW for no reason. Both of them deserve praise for good reasons. Can we just agree that both of our favorite teams suck (for good reason), and the point guards are close right now. And please use "your" and "you're" correctly. It makes it difficult to take you more seriously.

RaulLopez wrote:After seeing the 4th quarter of the Jazz/Cats game. I would take Trey over anyone in the last draft. He is the best player and best PG.

He has done tons that has proven that he can replace D-Will in SLC. Once Carter-WIlliams finishes this trip we will know how good he is, because Suns game will be his very first Western Road game.

By wining 50% of his East Road Trip, Burke proved that he can win the day in day out in Eastern Conference. Up to now, Burke has only lost to very high quality teams, all above .500 minus the 1 game against Kings.

Since Jazz do have #1 hardest record, I am surprised that anyone could get out alive. I am just amazed that Burke can hold guys like Lawson and Foye to 0 points, but his ice cold veins when shooting the big clutch shots that we need to win. Mo Williams could kind of do it, but those were mainly buzzer beaters, Trey is hitting FT's at 90%, which is how were winning. Once he develops his penetration game, he is going to be a 20-10 guy. Right now he is focusing on enabling his team to do better and working on his control, which is insanely good, only 1.4 TO's a game, that is lower than D-WIll!!